Worst Carry I've Ever Seen in the Wild

[Brad69]

Southern Indiana its allowed!

 

[actaeon277]

 

[jagee]

Southern Indiana its allowed!

So is carrying a handgun without training.

 

[actaeon277]

So is carrying a handgun without training.

So... there should be required training before posting on INGO?????

 

[jagee]

So... there should be required training before posting on INGO?????

I'm going to make an assumption here, but he's probably already had the required training. To my knowledge, the state of Indiana requires children to attend school of some sort, (public, private, home) at least until they are 18. So given the fact that he has military experience, he must be over 18, therefore has likely had the training and just isn't using it properly.

 

[actaeon277]

Well, now you're saying that required training doesn't work.

 

[jagee]

Well, now you're saying that required training doesn't work.

Whoda thunk it

 

[KLB]

I'm going to make an assumption here, but he's probably already had the required training. To my knowledge, the state of Indiana requires children to attend school of some sort, (public, private, home) at least until they are 18. So given the fact that he has military experience, he must be over 18, therefore has likely had the training and just isn't using it properly.

Unless of course you qualify to graduate before you are 18.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What are the numbers on people being shot by untrained carriers outside their own homes?

Do we want to count self inflicted or only the shooting of others? I'd have to go through my records, but I suspect it'd be in the neighborhood of 50 a year in Marion Co. if you count self inflicted. I'd have to break out the shooting of others. Cars seem to be the primary place that happens outside the home. I suspect just due to the forced proximity.

I'd be fascinated to see the results of mandatory training vs none mandatory. The only stats I'm aware of are for hunter safety, which has reduced injuries. I'm perfectly fine with mandatory hunter ed for hunting on public land. I'm much less inclined to support mandatory training for carry for self defense. This may seem counter-intuitive, but most defensive carriers will never fire their gun in public. They've got time to seek training on their own, and even if they don't the main risk is to themselves. They shoot themselves, they get their guns taken, they just fail to act. Usually they are the only one hurt. Hunters are much more likely to discharge their firearm, and on public land with other hunters in the woods, that means a higher risk to others.

 

[Benp]

1). It could be his wife's backup gun
2). It looks right in the mirror
3). Could be a dummy gun. While you are watching this gun he has already drawn his real gun from the left side
4). He was about to leave the house and wanted to carry, but the only holster not chewed up and destroyed by the dog was this left hand holster, which wasn't with the others because he bought the wrong one and never uses it

 

[printcraft]

There's a couple goofballs in Martinsville that carry in some walmart soft air holster that hangs about 2 inches away from the body,

If there is ever a way we can to give IQ requirements for Carrying, Drivers license, and having kids I'm in. But I want to be the one to set the criteria

Guy came into the shop one day and his gun was flopping around so bad the grip smacked the metal door frame when he walked in.
Nylon of some sort, the top was well below his belt line but it wasn't a drop leg.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Come on. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it is wrong or inappropriate.

That's correct. I don't appendix carry, but it's certainly got it's place and has some strong points. I don't pocket carry in pants pockets, but it works very well in limited circumstances.

However that's not what's under discussion. Cavalry draw with a reverse cant prevents you from getting a firing grip, a fast presentation, and will make it difficult to consistently defeat the retention strap. Speed, consistency of draw, and surprise are consistently important in winning gunfights. Carrying a gun to defend yourself or others is literally deadly serious business. He's hampering himself, and that could cost him his life if he's called upon to actually use that gun. This isn't playing pretend at the range. This isn't comparing the width of the tie to the width of the lapel. This is something that could get him, or someone who emulates it, killed. If the hippy "as long as you're comfortable with it" crowd is offended, oh well.

The "at least he's carrying" tells me you haven't dealt with the aftermath of someone who decided to fight, and lost because he wasn't fast enough, his gun wasn't operation, he hit the bad guy but the bad guy hit him back, etc. That false confidence of the gun as a talisman leads to people thinking they can tackle something they can't. Then they pay for it. But at least they were carrying when they were raped, shot, stabbed, etc. Probably comfortable, too, right up until then.

This is a gun forum. Discussion of the pros and cons of carry positions is not out of the ordinary. You've yet to add any "pro" to his method of carry. You've criticized us and thrown your snarky "Welcome to INGO" remark in like we're insulting the guy personally. You called INGO out, I looked at your last page of recent posts, the irony was there.

If you'd like to actually discuss a valid reason to carry as the photo indicates as opposed to traditional IWB or OWB, appendix, or even crossdraw I'm all ears. Else you're just criticizing to criticize.

 

[STARCOM]

Maybe he does not even have ammunition for the gun. Perhaps he thinks it will be a deterrent in and of itself…who knows. Years ago, I worked at a hospital, and this one security guard carried a Glock 17 but told me he never had any ammunition. I never asked why…

 

[indiucky]

Of course Brother there is also the fact that when drawing said firearm "reverse draw" or "cavalry draw" there is a period of time where it is pointing at one's own gut and possibly one's johnson....

 

[Alpo]

Here's the way I think about it.

Leave gun at home: - Take gun with you: +
Be situationally aware: + Have conversation with wife and back to the space: -
Practice: + Never fired the gun after purchase: -
1911 round count: -
Rapid draw from calvary position: - Rapid draw from pants pocket whilst sitting: - Rapid draw from most concealment positions whilst sitting: - Shoulder rig: probably concealed, so: -

Likelihood as a white civilian that the guy is going to need his firearm at all: pretty low to extremely low. More likely that some teenybopper will run over you while texting or you will be hospitalized eating at that restaurant.

Likelihood of getting a drop on the bad guy....I'd say in general most civilians are not all that situationally aware.


Conclusion: I like it that the guy remembered his firearm. I think just having it will benefit him immensely if needed. But he's probably not going to need it during his entire lifetime.

 

[Alpo]

Of course Brother there is also the fact that when drawing said firearm "reverse draw" or "cavalry draw" there is a period of time where it is pointing at one's own gut and possibly one's johnson....

Appendix carry is more dangerous. The proper way to execute a calvary twist is: Grip the firearm with palm facing outboard; Raise the firearm a couple of inches; Rotate firearm 180 degrees while still in holster; Bring gun up and forward as with any other firearm.

As to "modern shooters" vs those silly old men wearing cowboy clothes and shooting single single actions: The best shooter I know lives in Grand Rapids. He can draw and fire 10 shots out of his two revolvers from a holstered start in less than 4 seconds. He can equal Miceluk on shooting multiple double action revolvers for speed. He can shoot 10 lever action rifle shots, 10 single action revolver shots and load & fire 4 shotgun shots on various targets in less than 11 seconds. Cops vs. Cowboys matches usually go to the silly old men wearing cowboy clothes.

Here's a run at measured speed with a pump. He normally shoots a s x s a bit faster. Not his world record run, but one I would lag by 8 seconds or so.

[video=youtube_share;HOvTCu7lODI]http://youtu.be/HOvTCu7lODI[/video]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Likelihood as a white civilian that the guy is going to need his firearm at all: pretty low to extremely low. More likely that some teenybopper will run over you while texting or you will be hospitalized eating at that restaurant.

Likelihood of getting a drop on the bad guy....I'd say in general most civilians are not all that situationally aware.


Conclusion: I like it that the guy remembered his firearm. I think just having it will benefit him immensely if needed. But he's probably not going to need it during his entire lifetime.

That's treating the gun as a talisman. Wearing a gun with the assumption you'll never be in a gun fight. It works right up until it doesn't. You're right, he'll probably not need it. It's just a piece of jewelry. However if he ever does...he's well behind the curve, and that could cost him his life. I've yet to understand the mindset of carrying a gun to not need it, even before I needed it.

Lots of civilians have gotten the drop and won. SA lets you avoid the confrontation, and when that fails it's time to wait for, or make, an opening. You're welcome to come to the class I teach with Coach and watch videos of civilians doing exactly that. And also losing. While carrying. Warning: There will be criticism of wrong practices, because it's better to learn from someone else's mistakes than your own. These lessons were already bought with blood, I hate to see them go to waste. That's what makes me uncomfortable.

 

[CTS]

I would create a fast track "life and limb" license good for 180 days approved by the local police chief/ sheriff.
For extreme situations.

In order for training to be mandatory, permission slips need to be mandatory. I don't believe in the legality of the permission slip itself so I have no idea how one could require training without universal registration too. You just seem hell bent on making sure the state gets to decided who's allowed to defend themselves.

 

[hog slayer]

Appendix carry is more dangerous. The proper way to execute a calvary twist is: Grip the firearm with palm facing outboard; Raise the firearm a couple of inches; Rotate firearm 180 degrees while still in holster; Bring gun up and forward as with any other firearm.

As to "modern shooters" vs those silly old men wearing cowboy clothes and shooting single single actions: The best shooter I know lives in Grand Rapids. He can draw and fire 10 shots out of his two revolvers from a holstered start in less than 4 seconds. He can equal Miceluk on shooting multiple double action revolvers for speed. He can shoot 10 lever action rifle shots, 10 single action revolver shots and load & fire 4 shotgun shots on various targets in less than 11 seconds. Cops vs. Cowboys matches usually go to the silly old men wearing cowboy clothes.

Here's a run at measured speed with a pump. He normally shoots a s x s a bit faster. Not his world record run, but one I would lag by 8 seconds or so.

[video=youtube_share;HOvTCu7lODI]http://youtu.be/HOvTCu7lODI[/video]

Kind of a silly assessment, isn't it? To say that so and so can shoot better than JM has any bearing on someone else's poor holster material choice and questionable carry orientation is really sort of comparing two things that are completely unrelated in practical terms. It seems totally obvious to me that this guy carrying in a floppy holster in a questionable position hasn't actually spent much time practicing or even just considering how he'd use it if the time actually presented itself. You compared this Joe to a world record shooter. C'mon. Would you carry this way?
Is your assertion that AIWB is more dangerous a defensible position that adds to the conversation?
You described a self touted "proper cavalry twist." Doesn't this extra need for thought and skill both seem like it could belong in the 4 vs 3 rule argument as well as make it less useful in a life on the line scenario?
What are the pro and cons to this style? Is there a reason nobody is teaching this style? Few holsters available? Not in use by armed forces? Police departments?

 

[LCSOSgt11]

Armed Citizen "card" revoked. Remanded to an appropriate institution for re-training. In the immortal words of Bill Engvall...."there's your sign".