Unmarked LEO vehicles and traffic stops

[littletommy]

But it only takes one bad encounter to cost someone their life.

True, but generally, the person being stopped is being an ass. I’m guessing NOT being an ass significantly increases your chance of not getting shot?

 

[retyree98]

True, but generally, the person being stopped is being an ass. I’m guessing NOT being an ass significantly increases your chance of not getting shot?

Try driving through podunk returning from Knob Creek with a van loaded with ammo, machine guns and .50 BMG target rifles... and not realizing you have a cracked tail light lens...All the politeness, or whatever the opposite of being an ass is, in the world won't satisfy the local Barney Fife. Just saying, sometimes it's not the citizen, it's the leo. Bring the laws up to date, elect good leaders, invest in proper training, raise the standards, and vet the applicants.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I believe it's time for the legislature to amend the laws pertaining to unmarked LEO vehicles, uniformed officers, ghost lettering, pursuit rules, and recording stops. A lot could be accomplished by requiring cameras on every policeman and LEO vehicle that records to the cloud automatically and notifies the base whenever the camera is turned off. If every word and action is sent automatically to the cloud and the public knows it is accessible, both parties will be careful and less likely to misbehave. Require officers out of uniform to observe only until a uniformed officer in a marked car can arrive and make the stop. If you are on duty, wear the uniform unless working undercover on a specific assignment not related to traffic stops. If you are not on duty, barring an emergency situation, you are not working. My barber doesn't go around cutting hair while he is at the grocery just because someone needs it... If your car is marked, make it marked well enough to be recognized 100 feet away. Define exactly what goal is to be accomplished by having unmarked cars for traffic duty. Our small town was cursed for a few years with the chief constable, head honcho or whatever title he had, pulling people over while he was wearing nothing but cutoff shorts, flip flops and a gun while driving his own unmarked car or truck. He spent his time at the local diner bragging about looking down some girls blouse or speaking about wanting to pull some hottie over in the dark and having his way with her. One poor soul complained to the local paper and he and his employees were pulled over several times in the next two weeks. There needs to be a citizens board to lodge complaints to and investigate. Not a police dominated board with one citizen. Too many times the police have lost sight of their purpose, to protect and serve. As we have seen recently, like during the downtown riots, the local police did not protect persons or property, and didn't serve the community. Correcting this starts with the legislature, moves on to the executive branch...like the mayors office. Then down through the ranks to the individual officers. Fortunately, most of my encounters with LEO's has been without drama. But it only takes one bad encounter to cost someone their life.

That is unreadable. Paragraphs and the return key are your friends.

 

[yeahbaby]

That is unreadable. Paragraphs and the return key are your friends.

I got about a third of the way through the post. Sheesh!

 

[retyree98]

That is unreadable. Paragraphs and the return key are your friends.

If you find this unreadable, then don't read it. If you are just dissatisfied with the proper sentence and paragraph structure but still comprehend the ideas I was trying to convey, then It's good enough for me.
If you are also the plainclothes proper prose police, then either issue the ticket or let me go because I'm too old to be lectured on issues of little import.

 

[DadSmith]

Got away with just a slap on the hand... sorry, had to do it, that slow pitch was just too tempting. Hope your son came out of that OK.

It took him about 8 months to get his hand completely healed. Luckily no bones were broken. All around the middle of the fingers it was split open across the tops down the sides and up the other side on all fingers and his thumb. It smashed the meat until it burst. He has tingling and very little feeling in his little finger the rest came back like normal. He's in his upper 20's so he healed back really good considering the damage done.

All that just to help his dad get some wood in for winter. I felt horrible about it still do. That however, is a good reminder to pay attention to what you're doing. He said he was watching the dogs play and his hand slipped down and got caught. Luckily he had the brain power to push the opposite direction and free it on his own. He said it was a mind numbing pain when it happened.

 

[patience0830]

If you find this unreadable, then don't read it. If you are just dissatisfied with the proper sentence and paragraph structure but still comprehend the ideas I was trying to convey, then It's good enough for me.
If you are also the plainclothes proper prose police, then either issue the ticket or let me go because I'm too old to be lectured on issues of little import.

I'm old enough to lecture your lazy disrespectful ass. If you're gonna try and communicate your ideas and expect them to be taken seriously, respect your reader enough to use proper punctuation, and structure the prose so it is easy to read. Otherwise you're wasting your time and ours.

 

[KellyinAvon]

If you find this unreadable, then don't read it. If you are just dissatisfied with the proper sentence and paragraph structure but still comprehend the ideas I was trying to convey, then It's good enough for me.
If you are also the plainclothes proper prose police, then either issue the ticket or let me go because I'm too old to be lectured on issues of little import.

I didn't read it, when I said unreadable, I meant it. Maybe you should take it as good advice. If you are communicating, it is on the communicator to do it in a manner that conveys the message.

More of an observation than a lecture. My lectures are at least 500 words.

We could just give each other the benefit of the doubt and move on here.

 

[ditcherman]

I believe it's time for the legislature to amend the laws pertaining to unmarked LEO vehicles, uniformed officers, ghost lettering, pursuit rules, and recording stops. A lot could be accomplished by requiring cameras on every policeman and LEO vehicle that records to the cloud automatically and notifies the base whenever the camera is turned off. If every word and action is sent automatically to the cloud and the public knows it is accessible, both parties will be careful and less likely to misbehave. Require officers out of uniform to observe only until a uniformed officer in a marked car can arrive and make the stop. If you are on duty, wear the uniform unless working undercover on a specific assignment not related to traffic stops. If you are not on duty, barring an emergency situation, you are not working. My barber doesn't go around cutting hair while he is at the grocery just because someone needs it... If your car is marked, make it marked well enough to be recognized 100 feet away. Define exactly what goal is to be accomplished by having unmarked cars for traffic duty. Our small town was cursed for a few years with the chief constable, head honcho or whatever title he had, pulling people over while he was wearing nothing but cutoff shorts, flip flops and a gun while driving his own unmarked car or truck. He spent his time at the local diner bragging about looking down some girls blouse or speaking about wanting to pull some hottie over in the dark and having his way with her. One poor soul complained to the local paper and he and his employees were pulled over several times in the next two weeks. There needs to be a citizens board to lodge complaints to and investigate. Not a police dominated board with one citizen. Too many times the police have lost sight of their purpose, to protect and serve. As we have seen recently, like during the downtown riots, the local police did not protect persons or property, and didn't serve the community. Correcting this starts with the legislature, moves on to the executive branch...like the mayors office. Then down through the ranks to the individual officers. Fortunately, most of my encounters with LEO's has been without drama. But it only takes one bad encounter to cost someone their life.

A. No, I think they decided to go a different way.

B: All that camera data is a lot to manage, been covered here before, but some are moving that direction.

C. I surely don’t think that happens very often, it’s amazing he got away with that.

D. I think the courts have decided prevention and taking care of other peoples stuff is optional, like they’re doing it out of the goodness of their heart, don’t get used to it, but yet we do.

E. In this day and age, I agree with you that a simple traffic stop can go south really easily with the wrong personalities.

F. Take the paragraph and spacing advice, if you want to communicate effectively.

 

[BigRed]

I think he left out the f in If....lol

Maybe.

I have been accused of leaving out letters from time to time,

 

[Ingomike]

Nah, I'll just bat my eyes and flash a little cleavage.

May require more than cleavage to get off...

Pun intended...

 

[jsx1043]

I believe it's time for the legislature to amend the laws pertaining to unmarked LEO vehicles, uniformed officers, ghost lettering, pursuit rules, and recording stops. A lot could be accomplished by requiring cameras on every policeman and LEO vehicle that records to the cloud automatically and notifies the base whenever the camera is turned off. If every word and action is sent automatically to the cloud and the public knows it is accessible, both parties will be careful and less likely to misbehave. Require officers out of uniform to observe only until a uniformed officer in a marked car can arrive and make the stop. If you are on duty, wear the uniform unless working undercover on a specific assignment not related to traffic stops. If you are not on duty, barring an emergency situation, you are not working. My barber doesn't go around cutting hair while he is at the grocery just because someone needs it... If your car is marked, make it marked well enough to be recognized 100 feet away. Define exactly what goal is to be accomplished by having unmarked cars for traffic duty. Our small town was cursed for a few years with the chief constable, head honcho or whatever title he had, pulling people over while he was wearing nothing but cutoff shorts, flip flops and a gun while driving his own unmarked car or truck. He spent his time at the local diner bragging about looking down some girls blouse or speaking about wanting to pull some hottie over in the dark and having his way with her. One poor soul complained to the local paper and he and his employees were pulled over several times in the next two weeks. There needs to be a citizens board to lodge complaints to and investigate. Not a police dominated board with one citizen. Too many times the police have lost sight of their purpose, to protect and serve. As we have seen recently, like during the downtown riots, the local police did not protect persons or property, and didn't serve the community. Correcting this starts with the legislature, moves on to the executive branch...like the mayors office. Then down through the ranks to the individual officers. Fortunately, most of my encounters with LEO's has been without drama. But it only takes one bad encounter to cost someone their life.

Try driving through podunk returning from Knob Creek with a van loaded with ammo, machine guns and .50 BMG target rifles... and not realizing you have a cracked tail light lens...All the politeness, or whatever the opposite of being an ass is, in the world won't satisfy the local Barney Fife. Just saying, sometimes it's not the citizen, it's the leo. Bring the laws up to date, elect good leaders, invest in proper training, raise the standards, and vet the applicants.

If you find this unreadable, then don't read it. If you are just dissatisfied with the proper sentence and paragraph structure but still comprehend the ideas I was trying to convey, then It's good enough for me.
If you are also the plainclothes proper prose police, then either issue the ticket or let me go because I'm too old to be lectured on issues of little import.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

True, but generally, the person being stopped is being an ass. I’m guessing NOT being an ass significantly increases your chance of not getting shot?

If you find this unreadable, then don't read it. If you are just dissatisfied with the proper sentence and paragraph structure but still comprehend the ideas I was trying to convey, then It's good enough for me.
If you are also the plainclothes proper prose police, then either issue the ticket or let me go because I'm too old to be lectured on issues of little import.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So what do you suggest if a person is in this situation at night especially?

At its heart, it's a MUC situation (Managing Unknown Contacts). There's nothing fundamentally different about it then being approached by anyone I don't know who's seeking to gain my attention and get me to engage with them in some fashion.

I'm pretty comfortable stopping and evaluating as things play out, then making decisions based on what I observe. Context (am I in a construction zone with a lot of traffic? Am I in a place known for high drug trafficking and stopped immediately after leaving the ATM?), the behavior of the "probably a cop", etc. If I start to have questions, asking to see a police ID, asking for a supervisor, calling 911 and having an open line, or leaving may all be options. There's no one size fits all answer any more than there is "a guy approaches you and asks for directions to a gas station."

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The lights are what annoy me.

Most unmarked cars have such dim or near impossible to see lights, it just seems like some wacko is tailgating you.

Light bars exist for a reason and should be used.

At the beginning of my career I would have agreed with you. I've had unmarkeds that were basically invisible, even with the siren on. Even the old school lightbars weren't that bright in the daylight. Today, though, with the LEDs that can be seen from space? Nah, there's no reason an unmarked can't be lit up like a Steven Spielberg is going to have an alien walk down a ramp from it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think most folks tend to only consider the part of law enforcement they are familiar with, local or state police stopping for traffic infractions. It's outside your experience that federal agencies make traffic stops and don't even have marked cars as an option and don't have uniforms. It's outside your experience that traffic stops aren't always about traffic infractions, they can be major felony warrants, robbery suspects, etc. So you want to provide rules for the situations you are familiar with without learning what you don't know.

I've told the story here before but doing surveillance for a serial robbery suspect, the three vehicles that ended up stopping the suspect immediately after committing a robbery were an unmarked SUV (Tahoe, maybe? Don't remember any longer), a Chrysler 300C, a Ford Fusion, and a Dodge Charger (me) and a mix of local officers and FBI agents. A butt ton of marked cars showed up pretty quickly, but there was no marked car at the initial attempt to stop the suspects. Sitting around pharmacies waiting for them to be robbed isn't really something that can be done in plainly marked vehicles...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

*Rubs forehead*

Why . . . why are people playing "I want the pat on the head" from the police? Didn't anyone read my award-winning thread on traffic stops?

 

[DadSmith]

I think most folks tend to only consider the part of law enforcement they are familiar with, local or state police stopping for traffic infractions. It's outside your experience that federal agencies make traffic stops and don't even have marked cars as an option and don't have uniforms. It's outside your experience that traffic stops aren't always about traffic infractions, they can be major felony warrants, robbery suspects, etc. So you want to provide rules for the situations you are familiar with without learning what you don't know.

I've told the story here before but doing surveillance for a serial robbery suspect, the three vehicles that ended up stopping the suspect immediately after committing a robbery were an unmarked SUV (Tahoe, maybe? Don't remember any longer), a Chrysler 300C, a Ford Fusion, and a Dodge Charger (me) and a mix of local officers and FBI agents. A butt ton of marked cars showed up pretty quickly, but there was no marked car at the initial attempt to stop the suspects. Sitting around pharmacies waiting for them to be robbed isn't really something that can be done in plainly marked vehicles...

I'll most likely never be in those situations. Being in the country and driving down state roads, back roads or Hwy 50 is about it. So it's usually a Sheriff Deputy or State Trooper around my area. We have a few unmarked mustangs, but about everyone around here knows them already. I usually never drive at night unless it's an emergency or something different happening like relatives visiting and taking them out to eat, or going coon hunting.

Now a question. How often is a crime of impersonating an officer to comment a crime as was in the article of the OP compared to actual traffic stops by real law enforcement? Is it a rare crime or is it happening often?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is it a rare crime or is it happening often?

It's very rare. Impersonators do exist, but they are generally looking for the power trip and get off on pretending to be the police so they can "road rage" at people with an air of authority. As far as pretending to do traffic stops to commit robberies or violent crime, like probably Powerball odds. I've literally never worked one nor seen one come through our office while I was there. It's just too much logistics for something that's much easier accomplished by other means.

Slightly higher odds for home invasion robberies pretending to be police raids if you're a dope dealer.

 

[DadSmith]

It's very rare. Impersonators do exist, but they are generally looking for the power trip and get off on pretending to be the police so they can "road rage" at people with an air of authority. As far as pretending to do traffic stops to commit robberies or violent crime, like probably Powerball odds. I've literally never worked one nor seen one come through our office while I was there. It's just too much logistics for something that's much easier accomplished by other means.

Slightly higher odds for home invasion robberies pretending to be police raids if you're a dope dealer.

Okay I was thinking that because you don't here about it often. So basically in my area it's legitimate 99.99% of the time. Around here we have some bad crimes but it's rare, and random which is why you need to be alert to all situations that involve strangers.