Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[smokingman]

Two days left until Nord Stream 1 shuts down gas delivery to Germany for yearly maintenance.

Canada is under loads of pressure to return the turbine it has(which reduced capacity from Russia via Nord Stream 1 by around 1/3 when removed by Siemens,a German company as it left last month).

The shut down is a normal yearly event. Russia normally reroutes gas to other pipelines with much smaller capacities,and maintain around 30% delivery still during the maintenance. This year. Who knows,but either way Germany will have less gas and I doubt Russia restarts Nord 1 without the turbine Canada is holding.

Yes,Germany is begging Canada to return it.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Not a good sign(ICBM test of new nuclear reentry vehicle). It did not make it to altitude to start the test as the ICBM blew up 11 seconds into flight.

Test rocket carrying component for future nuclear armed ICBM explodes after takeoff | CNN Politics

A test rocket carrying a component for a future US nuclear armed intercontinental ballistic missile blew up 11 seconds after takeoff Wednesday night from Vandenberg Space Force Base in California, according to a statement from the base.

www.cnn.com

 

[Brad69]

It seems we the USA just cannot stay out of other peoples wars. We send tons of $$ and weapons to Ukraine for what result?

The Russians are grinding the Ukrainians down slowly. It will end on Russian terms not on ours.

The real danger IMO is the western equipment supply trains. If the Russians get tired of all the ammo and weapons coming in and do something about it. That could easily trigger WW3.

The idea that Russia would attack Poland or Germany is kinda out there IMO.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

 

[smokingman]

U.S. Vet Fighting with Ukrainian Forces: 'It's a 1916-Type Artillery War'

"This war is not Iraq, it's not Afghanistan, it's not Syria. It is a meat grinder," a U.S. Army vet fighting with Ukrainian forces told Newsweek.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Leadeye]

Well if the dems are trying to distract people away from their collapsing standard of living, a full scale war will certainly do the trick. Nobody would start a war just to keep holding on to privileges and power would they?

 

[Ark]

U.S. Vet Fighting with Ukrainian Forces: 'It's a 1916-Type Artillery War'

"This war is not Iraq, it's not Afghanistan, it's not Syria. It is a meat grinder," a U.S. Army vet fighting with Ukrainian forces told Newsweek.

www.newsweek.com

Remember back when we were having a big ol laugh at the inept Russians and their cope cages? Sounds like either the propaganda farm check bounced or the fun times are over and the real war is here.

He's right. Training and gear don't really matter anymore when your position is getting deleted by thermobaric artillery rockets.

 

[rob63]

That was a very interesting article, doesn't sound like much of anything is going to be left when the fighting is over.

 

[thunderchicken]

That was a very interesting article, doesn't sound like much of anything is going to be left when the fighting is over.

Probably not but then the Russians can launch their version of "build back better" some of the land they feel entitled to

 

[Robert Richardson]

This whole Ukrainian thing is a bunch of crap. It's not our responsibility to bail them out.

 

[BigRed]

This whole Ukrainian thing is a bunch of crap. It's not our responsibility to bail them out.

Damn straight.

 

[Brad69]

Russian doctrine and warfighting approaches are based on centuries of history and practical experience, but above all on World War II, or, as it is called in Russia, the “Great Patriotic War.” The Soviet Union lost 13 million soldiers in that war and came away with hard-won lessons. Although Russian tactics have evolved since then, they still retain many key features from that time. (The US lost about 405,000)

Even on the defensive, Russian commanders are taught to attack. The Russian army is built for offense—it has no light infantry; all formations, even its airborne divisions, are armored or mechanized. Russian commanders at all levels will attack resolutely and with determination. Speed, momentum and violence of action will characterize the Russian way of war.


This is from a article written by a former Brigade Commander that’s a smart dude.

 

[ljk]

US spending to counter Russian war effort exceeds first 5 years of war costs in Afghanistan | Fox News

The Biden administration and Congress have already spent more in military aid for Ukraine then the U.S. did during the first five years in Afghanistan.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Wolfhound]

I think when Russia wasn't able to take Ukraine in a couple of days they reverted to Soviet WW2 tactics. Massive artillery followed by waves of expendable troops like the article Brad posted describes. Trading lots of lives for ground. A very high price to pay.

How many times has Putin threatened the West in the past six months? How do you handle being threatened personally? Does folding up like a lawn chair and running home ever work against the neighborhood bully? Do you think abandoning Ukraine, then Lithuania then God knows who next would cause Russia to back down or embolden them? Just curious.

I am not calling for or desiring a nuclear war or putting US troops into Ukraine at this point just to avoid the reductio ad absurdum replies. I do not think we are the worlds policeman but we tried isolationism before both the world wars and it didn't work out well for us either time. We ended up well behind the power curve at the start of both wars. Fortunately the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans protected us while we geared up our military. That won't happen today.

 

[smokingman]

I think when Russia wasn't able to take Ukraine in a couple of days they reverted to Soviet WW2 tactics. Massive artillery followed by waves of expendable troops like the article Brad posted describes. Trading lots of lives for ground. A very high price to pay.

How many times has Putin threatened the West in the past six months? How do you handle being threatened personally? Does folding up like a lawn chair and running home ever work against the neighborhood bully? Do you think abandoning Ukraine, then Lithuania then God knows who next would cause Russia to back down or embolden them? Just curious.

I am not calling for or desiring a nuclear war or putting US troops into Ukraine at this point just to avoid the reductio ad absurdum replies. I do not think we are the worlds policeman but we tried isolationism before both the world wars and it didn't work out well for us either time. We ended up well behind the power curve at the start of both wars. Fortunately the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans protected us while we geared up our military. That won't happen today.

Was Germany our problem in WW2? No,and not until Pearl Harbor did we get involved other than sending weapons and supplies. The warnings about Japan possibly attacking Pearl Harbor were also ignored.
We have a president saying we are at war. My fear is we have another Pearl Harbor,and we go to war with not one but at least 4 countries(Russia,China,Iran,and Brazil). India would likely stay neutral. Mind you when we joined WW2 we had the largest manufacturing base in the world(and years to ramp up production) and little debt. Now...well we could not make a cell phone,maintain our railways,farms,or power plants without imports. We already owe more than can ever be repaid.

Yes,we should abandon Ukraine and NATO. Overthrowing a country to get an army to fight Russia was a dumb idea.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Hawkeye]

Was Germany our problem in WW2? No,and not until Pearl Harbor did we get involved other than sending weapons and supplies. The warnings about Japan possibly attacking Pearl Harbor were also ignored.
We have a president saying we are at war. My fear is we have another Pearl Harbor,and we go to war with not one but at least 4 countries(Russia,China,Iran,and Brazil). India would likely stay neutral. Mind you when we joined WW2 we had the largest manufacturing base in the world and little debt. Now...well we could not make a cell phone,maintain our railways,farms,or power plants without imports. We already owe more than can ever be repaid.

Yes,we should abandon Ukraine and NATO. Overthrowing a country to get an army to fight Russia was a dumb idea.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Well, I was ok until you added Brazil into the mix. If Brazil is on the other side, I definitely don't want war!

 

[smokingman]

Well, I was ok until you added Brazil into the mix. If Brazil is on the other side, I definitely don't want war!

China alone has 3.1 million active troops and another 619 million fit for service.

2024 China Military Strength

Detailing the current military strength of China including air force, army, navy, financials and manpower.

www.globalfirepower.com

Those kinds of numbers mean if we go to war it will be nuclear.

Also,just admit it you only like Brazil because of carnival.

 

[BugI02]

I think when Russia wasn't able to take Ukraine in a couple of days they reverted to Soviet WW2 tactics. Massive artillery followed by waves of expendable troops like the article Brad posted describes. Trading lots of lives for ground. A very high price to pay.

How many times has Putin threatened the West in the past six months? How do you handle being threatened personally? Does folding up like a lawn chair and running home ever work against the neighborhood bully? Do you think abandoning Ukraine, then Lithuania then God knows who next would cause Russia to back down or embolden them? Just curious.

I am not calling for or desiring a nuclear war or putting US troops into Ukraine at this point just to avoid the reductio ad absurdum replies. I do not think we are the worlds policeman but we tried isolationism before both the world wars and it didn't work out well for us either time. We ended up well behind the power curve at the start of both wars. Fortunately the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans protected us while we geared up our military. That won't happen today.

While I agree with your assessment of the success rate of appeasement, we can help fight Russia without being the bankroll for a Ukrainian Marshall Plan

It has always been Europes problem much more than ours. While they may have needed heavy weight help to credibly fight Russia, once again they are not fighting but only interested in holding our coat - and THEY should foot the bill to rebuild Ukraine, if they wish it done so badly, if that money cannot be extracted from Russia

ETA: I believe we did try to tell the Germans that Russia was not a trustworthy enough trading partner to mortgage their energy future to Gazprom

 

[BigRed]

US spending to counter Russian war effort exceeds first 5 years of war costs in Afghanistan | Fox News

The Biden administration and Congress have already spent more in military aid for Ukraine then the U.S. did during the first five years in Afghanistan.

www.foxnews.com

Such a crock of ****.

Hell, this is not even an "official ally" of the united States.

 

[ljk]

Such a crock of ****.

Hell, this is not even an "official ally" of the united States.

Remember this thread?

Why does Ukraine matter?

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “ Being of Ukrainian descent, I have had numerous friends and co workers ask me why is Russia invading Ukraine. If Russia controls all of Ukraine's resources, sanctions imposed by Biden will have no effect on Russia, they will have all they need. The...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[BigRed]

Remember this thread?

Why does Ukraine matter?

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “ Being of Ukrainian descent, I have had numerous friends and co workers ask me why is Russia invading Ukraine. If Russia controls all of Ukraine's resources, sanctions imposed by Biden will have no effect on Russia, they will have all they need. The...

www.indianagunowners.com

Let Europe take care of it.