Range time with 9mms

[Hoosierdaddy1]

Guys are making me jealous with all these RAMI’s and how they shoot.

I Found a new RAMI in March (after shooting a buddies) I immediately sent it to CGW to have a pro package installed and got it back and the damn thing won’t string 3 shots together without the flat part of the hollow point hanging on the bottom of the ramp.

I sent it back to CZ (under warranty repair) they polished a few things and said it’s all good.

Another trip to the range and it fires flawless with ball ammo but any flat point or hollow point, I’m lucky to get 5 shots off before it’s hung.

Love the feel in my hand and accuracy but can’t own a gun I can’t depend on!

 

[doddg]

Guys are making me jealous with all these RAMI’s and how they shoot.

I Found a new RAMI in March (after shooting a buddies) I immediately sent it to CGW to have a pro package installed and got it back and the damn thing won’t string 3 shots together without the flat part of the hollow point hanging on the bottom of the ramp.

I sent it back to CZ (under warranty repair) they polished a few things and said it’s all good.

Another trip to the range and it fires flawless with ball ammo but any flat point or hollow point, I’m lucky to get 5 shots off before it’s hung.

Love the feel in my hand and accuracy but can’t own a gun I can’t depend on!

I had that happen with the 1st Rami I had (on my 4th), & even just using ball ammo it would not chamber correctly.
Can't remember what the fix was, but it was something basic/simple.
Makes me wonder about the magazine, in my limited experience about such things, but I'm sure you tried a different mag & cleaning, perhaps even polishing the ramp.
I used to get really concerned/anxious about a gun not cycling properly, but found it rarely needed to be sent back to manufacture or taken to a gunsmith, but it does happen.

 

[Hoosierdaddy1]

I had that happen with the 1st Rami I had (on my 4th), & even just using ball ammo it would not chamber correctly.
Can't remember what the fix was, but it was something basic/simple.
Makes me wonder about the magazine, in my limited experience about such things, but I'm sure you tried a different mag & cleaning, perhaps even polishing the ramp.
I used to get really concerned/anxious about a gun not cycling properly, but found it rarely needed to be sent back to manufacture or taken to a gunsmith, but it does happen.

CZ polished the ramp, breech face and lead in. Mags (4 different mags, malfunctions with all) are all new everything throughly cleaned and lubricated and still.. I’m definitely at a loss and after sinking the money in it at CGW, I’ll never get my money back. Especially with me not being the type to lie to the buyer.

 

[Dean C.]

CZ polished the ramp, breech face and lead in. Mags (4 different mags, malfunctions with all) are all new everything throughly cleaned and lubricated and still.. I’m definitely at a loss and after sinking the money in it at CGW, I’ll never get my money back. Especially with me not being the type to lie to the buyer.

What ammo are you running? I ran into this issue with 147gr ammo and my Walther Q4 SF some of the European guns don't like the longer loaded 147 ammo apparently. It feeds everything else just fine however.

 

[doddg]

CZ polished the ramp, breech face and lead in. Mags (4 different mags, malfunctions with all) are all new everything throughly cleaned and lubricated and still.. I’m definitely at a loss and after sinking the money in it at CGW, I’ll never get my money back. Especially with me not being the type to lie to the buyer.

Don’t give up yet.
There is a CZ thread, that unfortunately I was asked not to post there,
b/c
apparently I was too obnoxious, that could be very helpful in redeeming this Rami.
There are many on the CZ thread who have seen/heard the same thing before
&
can help you like they did with me.

 

[marvin02]

There is a CZ thread, that unfortunately I was asked not to post there

Here's the CZ thread:

The CZickness XLII looking towards the FGE

What all this sig talk? (Someday I need to fire one and see what that is all about)! Now for the fake CZ news: Made new grips for the fake CZ (Tanfo .45 Witness), Indiana walnut I had laying around the shop.

www.indianagunowners.com

It's more of a social thread most of the time, but some knowledgeable CZ folks hang out there.

@doddg, sorry you got disinvited from there. Seems wrong on a public forum that you pay to support.

@Hoosierdaddy1- you could also post a thread about your issues to seek help. Lots of detail and pics would help. Put it here:

Handguns

Discussion related to handguns goes here

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[BugI02]

HD1, full dislosure, I'm far, far from an expert on firearm mechanics (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently)

It seems like, with all the polishing done, that it might be a mechanical or timing issue. What passes for common sense with me says maybe look to the magwell. It seems like a small bvariation in the depth that the mags fit could increase the distance between the feed lips and the ramp just enough to possibly cause something like this

I'm also curious if you shot the weapon(with the problem ammunition) before sending it off to CGW, with the idea of eliminating something that happened at CGW from the equation if you did

Were it me, I would also see if I could get some of the SD ammo like Cor-bon powerball, that has a polymer insert in the hollow point, to see if that sort of hybrid feeds more reliably (if it is the same OAL as the problem ammo)

As an engineer, I tend to want to eliminate as many variables as possible when problem solving

 

[doddg]

Here's the CZ thread:

The CZickness XLII looking towards the FGE

What all this sig talk? (Someday I need to fire one and see what that is all about)! Now for the fake CZ news: Made new grips for the fake CZ (Tanfo .45 Witness), Indiana walnut I had laying around the shop.

www.indianagunowners.com

It's more of a social thread most of the time, but some knowledgeable CZ folks hang out there.

@doddg, sorry you got disinvited from there. Seems wrong on a public forum that you pay to support.

@Hoosierdaddy1- you could also post a thread about your issues to seek help. Lots of detail and pics would help. Put it here:

Handguns

Discussion related to handguns goes here

www.indianagunowners.com

Marvin02, yes, it was probably one of the oddest events of my life
since
I always have always played well with others since kindergarten, haha!

But, personalities sometimes clash
&
my communication style gets muddled in print especially
b/c
of my eclectic sense of humor getting lost in translation/print, haha!

 

[mmpsteve]

CZ polished the ramp, breech face and lead in. Mags (4 different mags, malfunctions with all) are all new everything throughly cleaned and lubricated and still.. I’m definitely at a loss and after sinking the money in it at CGW, I’ll never get my money back. Especially with me not being the type to lie to the buyer.

Are the mags the factory ones made for the Rami, with the extended base plate thingy? I only ask because when I first got my Rami, I started to load the factory mag and it felt cheap. Hard to describe, but it didn't feel smooth when loading. As I was inserting each round, It felt rough and gritty as the spring compressed.

I quit loading that one, and loaded some of my other CZ mags, which felt much smoother and better quality. I also noticed that the 17 round mags gave me a much more secure hold on the Rami, and to this day it's all I've used when shooting the Rami.

The factory ones may have worked fine - they just didn't feel the same. Maybe CZ uses different vendors for their mags? Don't know.

Best of luck with it.

.

 

[Hoosierdaddy1]

What ammo are you running? I ran into this issue with 147gr ammo and my Walther Q4 SF some of the European guns don't like the longer loaded 147 ammo apparently. It feeds everything else just fine however.

I used Federal 124 gr FMJ flat nose and round (round runs flawless. 124gr Speer gold dots and 124gr Federal HST.

all but the round nose FMJ would hang.

 

[Hoosierdaddy1]

Are the mags the factory ones made for the Rami, with the extended base plate thingy? I only ask because when I first got my Rami, I started to load the factory mag and it felt cheap. Hard to describe, but it didn't feel smooth when loading. As I was inserting each round, It felt rough and gritty as the spring compressed.

I quit loading that one, and loaded some of my other CZ mags, which felt much smoother and better quality. I also noticed that the 17 round mags gave me a much more secure hold on the Rami, and to this day it's all I've used when shooting the Rami.

The factory ones may have worked fine - they just didn't feel the same. Maybe CZ uses different vendors for their mags? Don't know.

Best of luck with it.

.

Yes, I have 4 mags, 1 10 round and 3 14 round all 4 are factory CZ mags. They don’t feel funny and actually load smooth. The hang happens in all 4

 

[Hoosierdaddy1]

HD1, full dislosure, I'm far, far from an expert on firearm mechanics (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently)

It seems like, with all the polishing done, that it might be a mechanical or timing issue. What passes for common sense with me says maybe look to the magwell. It seems like a small bvariation in the depth that the mags fit could increase the distance between the feed lips and the ramp just enough to possibly cause something like this

I'm also curious if you shot the weapon(with the problem ammunition) before sending it off to CGW, with the idea of eliminating something that happened at CGW from the equation if you did

Were it me, I would also see if I could get some of the SD ammo like Cor-bon powerball, that has a polymer insert in the hollow point, to see if that sort of hybrid feeds more reliably (if it is the same OAL as the problem ammo)

As an engineer, I tend to want to eliminate as many variables as possible when problem solving

I did not shoot it prior to sending it to CGW (a mistake that will never happen again) the polishing was all done by CZ as a warranty. They did the breach face, ramp and the other they did is what is explained in attached. The green area was chamfered and red area polished on under side of slide

 

[Hoosierdaddy1]

This is how it looks when gun does jam. Like I said it appears the open cavity of the bullet catches the feed ramp

 

[Hoosierdaddy1]

Oh and as far as it having something to do with what CGW done to the gun. When I told CZ, I had a pro carry package installed they said that would have nothing to do with an FTF. I’m sure they’d love to blame them as they could claim it was an after market adjustment and therefore the warranty is void.
I may try special ammo in the long run but right now I’m just pissed at myself for putting the money in it, without test firing, first.
ive never kept a picky pistol or any gun really but now I have so much in it, I’m screwed.

 

[Dean C.]

Wow that's a hell of a hangup on the feedramp it looks like the round is not even hitting the feedramp but getting caught on the edge of it. Then having issues with HST is never a good sigh IMHO I have never once had a pistol that choked on any HST even 1911's.

As others have said maybe a different ammo would work better, like the Hornady Critical Defence as it does not have a cavity to hang up on.

 

[churchmouse]

That looks like the round is nose down as the slide strips it from the mag. We had an older CZ that did this a lot and it was the springs in the mags not holding the round nose up as you advance through the stack in the mag. Better springs seemed to solve it but it has been a couple of years and....well.....

 

[88E30M50]

Guys are making me jealous with all these RAMI’s and how they shoot.

I Found a new RAMI in March (after shooting a buddies) I immediately sent it to CGW to have a pro package installed and got it back and the damn thing won’t string 3 shots together without the flat part of the hollow point hanging on the bottom of the ramp.

I sent it back to CZ (under warranty repair) they polished a few things and said it’s all good.

Another trip to the range and it fires flawless with ball ammo but any flat point or hollow point, I’m lucky to get 5 shots off before it’s hung.

Love the feel in my hand and accuracy but can’t own a gun I can’t depend on!

Three things might be worth trying on this. First, an extra power mag spring might help present the round better. Second, try running the factory mainspring to see if that helps. The third would be to try an extra power recoil spring.

I’ve long had a thing for .40 CZs and in a lot of guns, they were very sensitive to modification that involved lightening of the mainspring. What would happen is that the higher energy .40 rounds would cause the slide to impact the rear stop, putting a momentary sharp upward impulse on the frame. The weight of the bullet would fight the mag spring and not feed properly by catching the lip of the feed ramp instead of hitting the ramp itself.

The weight of the slide, recoil spring weight and mainspring weight all play a role in controlling the rearward slide movement and if any of those are lightened, you might need to compensate in a different way. It could be the bullet profile of the HP ammo that’s causing the issue or it might be the higher energy SD ammo that’s stressing the recoil mgt function in the gun.

Any of these 3 things should be easy to try to see if they help.

 

[mcapo]

I can't add much to what 88 said though I would mention the feed lips on the mag. The slightest bit of roughness could be changing the angle of attack of the shorter HP rounds just enough as to cause issue. I would make sure those feed lips are smooth and try the spring combinations 88 mention.

Last resort is going to be taking a look at that feed ramp and see if it needs more material taken off than just a polish but I have a feeling that 88 or the mag lips may hold your solution.

I ran Hornady Critical Defense in my CGW/Wizard Rami without issue along with various types of ball ammo.

You have most likely considered this but the ergonomics of the RAMI make it VERY easy to ride the slide with your thumbs.

 

[doddg]

I bought a SW MP 9 Shield Plus to compare with my Ruger Max 9.

Note, Update added next day:
Quick summary: my eyes love the 3 big dots of the Shield Plus (just front white dot on Max 9.
And, strangely enough, the Shield Plus "feels" a hair lighter in my hand even though it is 1.8 ozs heavier than Max 9?
This puzzles me???
Balance?
Or, just b/c I want to like the SW more since I'm prejudiced toward anything Shield?
With both, my pinky doesn't have purchase with 10 rd mag.

Difference in measurements with 10 rd mags in both.
SW = .1" longer
SW = .08" more height
SW = .6" wider
SW barrel = .1" longer
SW = 1.8 ozs heavier (feels lighter in my hand, though???)
SW = 1 rd more capacity
With SW 13 rd mag vs Max 9 12 rd mag, there would be a little more height & weight.

#1 target was my practice rounds.
Pleased enough with #2 target.
Bottom target free hand really shows that I've been shooting only .22LR or even air guns past 3 weeks.


Quick range pic with SW MP Shield 9 Plus w/13 rd mag.


10 round mags on both, showing height. Shield Plus on left.


10 round mags from back w/SW Shield Plus on right.


Ruger in front with 12 rd mag & Shield Plus in back w/13 rd mag.


Shield Plus on top of the Max 9, both w/10 rd mags.

 

[700 LTR 223]

If I had not already bought a P365 and P365X I would seriously consider adding a Shield Plus.

I have one of the 1st generation Shields in 9mm and it is a pleasure to shoot. Liked it so much I bought the 45 version when it came out. The 45 has an even better trigger than my original Shield and very good accuracy.