Daylight Saving Time

[jamil]

A lot. Rarely in before 10pm in June. My passion on this is I really use this DST shift to better my life.

Wait. You’re shooting past 10:00pm? Your nearest neighbors with kids are far away?

 

[jamil]

This is not a debate. There will be no winners declared and nothing will get solved either.
This is a discussion where people state their beliefs, ideas, preferences, etc.

It seems to go better when the idea of changing someone else's beliefs is forgotten.

It’s like I said earlier in the thread. We’re talking about preferences. We can use facts to claim our preferences is “better” than someone else’s. But “better” is subjective. You can cite all the facts you want, you can’t make them more important than other facts to someone else. That is why no one needs citations. You just need to say, I prefer it another way.

If you don’t like the way society has ordered time, keep your own time. But at some point, you’ll still need to interface with society.

 

[ditcherman]

Wait. You’re shooting past 10:00pm? Your nearest neighbors with kids are far away?

Is this some kind of law? Or are you just a kind person?

We shoot pretty late some evenings.
10,11, midnight, not too uncommon. 2 or 3 am is uncommon.
And it’s not uncommon at all to hear others around after dark (9-10-11).

If you want to do low light stuff you have to wait til 10 to get started.

 

[Creedmoor]

Is this some kind of law? Or are you just a kind person?

We shoot pretty late some evenings.
10,11, midnight, not too uncommon. 2 or 3 am is uncommon.
And it’s not uncommon at all to hear others around after dark (9-10-11).

If you want to do low light stuff you have to wait til 10 to get started.

Its when one finds out what the difference is between a $1,500 - $3,000 dollar scope or a $750 and under scope.

 

[ditcherman]

Its when one finds out what the difference is between a $1,500 - $3,000 dollar scope or a $750 and under scope.

Mmm I don’t know about that.
I have a really nice Trijicon that is very clean and clear and gathers a lot of light but it doesn’t compare to some IR I’ve seen, which is way over the top end you’ve listed.
We shoot cheap or expensive scopes, red dots, pistols, with dots and not, but do low light to learn about how the light (mounted or handheld) works for (actually against) you.

 

[nonobaddog]

Its when one finds out what the difference is between a $1,500 - $3,000 dollar scope or a $750 and under scope.

For every $1000 you get an extra 15 minutes after the legal shooting time has ended.

 

[Creedmoor]

Mmm I don’t know about that.
I have a really nice Trijicon that is very clean and clear and gathers a lot of light but it doesn’t compare to some IR I’ve seen, which is way over the top end you’ve listed.
We shoot cheap or expensive scopes, red dots, pistols, with dots and not, but do low light to learn about how the light (mounted or handheld) works for (actually against) you.

LOL maybe I should have used purple.
I own no IR scopes at all, Leupold LR, Marks, VX3's a coulpe of ACOG's or night force for the most part.
I use low-light preformance to see, was my money well spent or not.
Im German, we tend to like nice glass.

 

[ditcherman]

For every $1000 you get an extra 15 minutes after the legal shooting time has ended.

I guess Minnesota got annexed into Canadia by Justin Castro, who knew?

Legal shooting time?

 

[jamil]

Is this some kind of law? Or are you just a kind person?

Depends on how well I like my neighbors.

 

[femurphy77]

I guess Minnesota got annexed into Canadia by Justin Castro, who knew?

Legal shooting time?

I'm guessing he meant legal hunting time.

 

[chipbennett]

Yes I will debate all day. I generally tired of debating those that do not debate the topic but rather debate if your source is better than mine. A debate (I prefer discussion because I hope I learn rather than win) is about what we know, not what source is better…

Okay, but when you assert certain, quantitative things in support of your arguments, e.g. that more people prefer X over Y, or that the cost of A is insignificant, such assertions generally require evidence. It isn't about one source being better than another, but rather about providing any source of evidence to support the assertion. To wit: it appears that a supermajority of people prefer not to continue changing clocks back and forth. Also, the overall cost of changing clocks is not zero.

 

[nonobaddog]

I guess Minnesota got annexed into Canadia by Justin Castro, who knew?

Legal shooting time?

I'm guessing he meant legal hunting time.

Exactly. It is deer season here and you are not supposed to shoot a deer more than 1/2 hour before sunrise or 1/2 hour after sunset.

But, hey, you can kill 'em with your truck all night long, go figure.

 

[Ingomike]

Okay, but when you assert certain, quantitative things in support of your arguments, e.g. that more people prefer X over Y, or that the cost of A is insignificant, such assertions generally require evidence. It isn't about one source being better than another, but rather about providing any source of evidence to support the assertion. To wit: it appears that a supermajority of people prefer not to continue changing clocks back and forth. Also, the overall cost of changing clocks is not zero.

Can one not say that from their discussions with other people? I did not say a study found that. I interact with a lot of people and this place is where I hear the most complaints about changing clocks and DST of anywhere I meet folks.

There is a real cost to not doing DST as well.

 

[nonobaddog]

Okay, but when you assert certain, quantitative things in support of your arguments, e.g. that more people prefer X over Y, or that the cost of A is insignificant, such assertions generally require evidence. It isn't about one source being better than another, but rather about providing any source of evidence to support the assertion. To wit: it appears that a supermajority of people prefer not to continue changing clocks back and forth. Also, the overall cost of changing clocks is not zero.

But think of the children.

 

[chipbennett]

Can one not say that from their discussions with other people? I did not say a study found that. I interact with a lot of people and this place is where I hear the most complaints about changing clocks and DST of anywhere I meet folks.

There is a real cost to not doing DST as well.

Of course - but we have to be cognizant of confirmation bias. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

The "real cost to not doing DST" was theorized by Benjamin Franklin - and, as far as I know, largely disproven by actual data. For example, energy usage for light merely shifted from evening to morning.

 

[Creedmoor]

DST = a real world problem...

 

[BugI02]

To wit: it appears that a supermajority of people prefer not to continue changing clocks back and forth

But upon acknowledging that, too many people ignore the fact that if you dissect that supermajority more of its adherents support year round Standard Time than year round DST

If one wishes to use numerical tallies as support/evidence, than everything the numbers tell us should be significant

I hate changing the clocks BECAUSE I hate DST

My version of 'set it and forget it it' takes us back to pre March 19, 1918 and the system that had been in place from when timekeeping began

 

[BugI02]

I interact with a lot of people and this place is where I hear the most complaints about changing clocks and DST of anywhere I meet folks.

7a: an enclosed or isolated sphere of experience or activity in which the like-minded members of a homogeneous community support and reinforce their shared opinions

 

[BugI02]

The "real cost to not doing DST" was theorized by Benjamin Franklin - and, as far as I know, largely disproven by actual data. For example, energy usage for light merely shifted from evening to morning.

AFAIK, NONE of the many, shifting, claimed justifications for DST benefits have ever withstood strict scrutiny

 

[nonobaddog]

AFAIK, NONE of the many, shifting, claimed justifications for DST benefits have ever withstood strict scrutiny

Personally I don't care about justifying it, I just enjoy it all summer.