Building a deck question.

[JettaKnight]

I can't say 100% that it is hollow, but I have a full basement with block walls. I'm just guessing they are and going with worse case scenario.

Is it possible to make a basement wall stand up under the pressure if you don't fill the blocks?

 

[JettaKnight]

I did it wrong but the deck is still standing (and level) over 18 years later.
Went to Menards with a rough scetch and they built it on their CAD program then delivered the lumber.
It's passed 2 insurance inspections since then.

Guess I should be arrested.

If we started arresting people for sub-standard building practices, the jails would be full with just my previous owners, their contractors and possibly me.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

In my lay-research, that document is pretty darned conservative. I'm thinking, they prescribe that so that if you're building onto a house where the surrounding ground is not completely settled, the deck won't shift as it does settle. I say that because, if you'll notice, it says you only have to do that if the posts will be within 5ft of the foundation. I guess they're assuming the ground would be undisturbed at that location, so as long as you're going below the frost line, your'e probably good to go.

I think so too. I built a roofed, screened porch on my in-laws house and it was lagged onto the header on the house, and on posts at the far edge on footings 3-feet deep. In between the posts and the house was a concrete slab. My father-in-law didn't want to bust up the slab, so I added a couple of piers that sit on the slab and support the floor of the deck in the center area of the porch. Everything's fine until a very cold winter, when the slab rises a little over a half-inch, and can scrape the bottom of the storm door, since we made the porch floor nearly flush with the house floor to facilitate my mother-in-law being able to get her wheel chair in and out.

Any time two buildings join together, you're bound to get slightly different "movement" over time or through the seasons. If you design a deck so that a slight rise and fall relative to the house doesn't cause problems, then you should be OK. Where problems happen is when two structures are solidly anchored together, and then one of them settles or moves with frost heave.

I'd bet with a basement, it's also more likely that the original excavation extended out away from the house much farther than with a simple 3-foot deep footing with a slab or crawl space. If you put a footing on top of "uncontrolled" fill, you will eventually see settling.

 

[RyanGSams]

Is it possible to make a basement wall stand up under the pressure if you don't fill the blocks?

I have read that you can put a ledger on the inside of the wall and have rods go through the blocks and kind of sandwich the blocks in between the ledger boards. And I also read about specialty adhesive mounted bolts that you put into the concrete blocks.

I probably going to email the building department and ask about how I should go about doing this as per the code they follow. I will take a picture of the deck area. Unfortunately I can't go into any i beams or floor boards.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I have read that you can put a ledger on the inside of the wall and have rods go through the blocks and kind of sandwich the blocks in between the ledger boards. And I also read about specialty adhesive mounted bolts that you put into the concrete blocks.

I probably going to email the building department and ask about how I should go about doing this as per the code they follow. I will take a picture of the deck area. Unfortunately I can't go into any i beams or floor boards.

I see your house is built with I-beams...if it also has a rim joist, you may be able to tie into that.

 

[Reverend Dreed]

here in ky the anchors must be in the mortar joints not the actual block. I like the ones that use a drive pin to secure them. also if you use even numbered dimensions there is less wasted material. My deck is about 4 feet off of the ground at the lowest point and 5 at the highest. I did not attach to the house and built it free standing as I needed no permits or inspections that way, each county has different rules first step is to review those rules. Have fun and enjoy your new deck.

 

[Cemetery-man]

Just in the process of adding a new deck/porch to the front of my house that is nearly complete. For reasons like the OP is going through is why I went the contractor route just to save myself a lot of the construction and legal headaches. When finished, my porch is an attached 22'x10' deck with a pergola style roof for $6k complete. The worst part was getting the required permits, locates and pre-inspections from the county in a timely manner. Even though I am located in town, I had to get everything from the county because of the size of the deck (anything over 10').

 

[CHCRandy]

I have read that you can put a ledger on the inside of the wall and have rods go through the blocks and kind of sandwich the blocks in between the ledger boards. And I also read about specialty adhesive mounted bolts that you put into the concrete blocks.

I probably going to email the building department and ask about how I should go about doing this as per the code they follow. I will take a picture of the deck area. Unfortunately I can't go into any i beams or floor boards.

Yeah, Ramset has a product that is called UltraFix. You could use that. I personally would plan on drilling into the mortar joints and not the block. That is how we do it when needed. Put your ledger in position and drill some small like 3/16" holes on each end and secure with a Tapcon to hold the ledger while you drill the other holes. Then while the tapcon's are holding board in position go down the ledger and drill 3/16" holes 12" to 18" apart thru the ledger and into the mortar joints....then remove the tapcons and take ledger down....your holes should now be marked on wall. Drill them out to the size of your anchor and install anchors in wall. Then drill out 3/16" ledger holes so your lag bolts will fit thru. Now put a couple tubes of liquid nails on ledger, put in position and tighten all lag bolts into anchors. You will then have a secured ledger to put joist hangers on.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck with your project.

 

[RyanGSams]

*

Yeah, Ramset has a product that is called UltraFix. You could use that. I personally would plan on drilling into the mortar joints and not the block. That is how we do it when needed. Put your ledger in position and drill some small like 3/16" holes on each end and secure with a Tapcon to hold the ledger while you drill the other holes. Then while the tapcon's are holding board in position go down the ledger and drill 3/16" holes 12" to 18" apart thru the ledger and into the mortar joints....then remove the tapcons and take ledger down....your holes should now be marked on wall. Drill them out to the size of your anchor and install anchors in wall. Then drill out 3/16" ledger holes so your lag bolts will fit thru. Now put a couple tubes of liquid nails on ledger, put in position and tighten all lag bolts into anchors. You will then have a secured ledger to put joist hangers on.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Good luck with your project.

I didn't really think about going through the mortar. I would drill holes in the mortar and use Sleeve anchors in that is that correct? Do they make Hot Dipped galvanized sleeve anchors? I found stainless steel but was wondering if the galvanized would be cheaper.

Also, What is the general rule for placing support posts? I was thinking of using 4x4s on each free standing corner (2) then having 4 foot spaces between them along the edge. I figure since its 9 feet wide i need no support posts closer than the edge.

 

[CHCRandy]

*

I didn't really think about going through the mortar. I would drill holes in the mortar and use Sleeve anchors in that is that correct? Do they make Hot Dipped galvanized sleeve anchors? I found stainless steel but was wondering if the galvanized would be cheaper.

Also, What is the general rule for placing support posts? I was thinking of using 4x4s on each free standing corner (2) then having 4 foot spaces between them along the edge. I figure since its 9 feet wide i need no support posts closer than the edge.

You are correct. Expansion or epoxy anchor and hot dipped should be ok. They need to be 1/2" minimum. I think you can use galvanized bolts...but double check that they are approved for use with treated lumber, some metals don't agree with the chemical they treat lumber with now days...and it will eat the metal away. Make sure your lag bolt has a flat washer on it.

On posts my general rule of thumb is a 4x4 every 8 feet....but I have stretched it to 9' before. I just use 8 foot so my rails are easier to install. I usually allow my posts to extend up through the deck so they support my spindles, but some people cut them off under deck and then use bolt on posts. With your deck being 25' long you could run your posts evenly spaced at about 8' 4". Is your ledger board only going to be 9'? If so that means your joists probably won't even mount to the ledger since you would want to use 9' joists.

Hope this helps you some.

 

[RyanGSams]

You are correct. Expansion or epoxy anchor and hot dipped should be ok. They need to be 1/2" minimum. I think you can use galvanized bolts...but double check that they are approved for use with treated lumber, some metals don't agree with the chemical they treat lumber with now days...and it will eat the metal away. Make sure your lag bolt has a flat washer on it.

On posts my general rule of thumb is a 4x4 every 8 feet....but I have stretched it to 9' before. I just use 8 foot so my rails are easier to install. I usually allow my posts to extend up through the deck so they support my spindles, but some people cut them off under deck and then use bolt on posts. With your deck being 25' long you could run your posts evenly spaced at about 8' 4". Is your ledger board only going to be 9'? If so that means your joists probably won't even mount to the ledger since you would want to use 9' joists.

Hope this helps you some.

My Ledger would be 25 feet.

obviously the red line is the ledger board placement.

I was talking to a co worker. He built a deck last summer and said his posts are 4 feet apart, so thats what I was going to plan. But if I could go our to every 5 feet that would let me use 2 less posts.

 

[Rookie]

Four feet is over kill.

 

[CHCRandy]

That will be a pretty easy deck. Attach top of ledger near that first joint down, go in every mortar joint with one bolt. Stagger bolts from top side of ledger to bottom side of ledger. In other words, have your first bolt about 2 1/2" down from top of ledger and then your next mortar joint have the bolt about 2 1/2" up from bottom of ledger...that way you wont weaken the center of ledger allowing possible failure from it splitting in the future. Your joist hangers will also keep it from splitting.

I could see 4' if you were sitting a hot tub or something else extremely heavy, but 4' is really over kill.

I would come out 9' on corners and set posts, then measure back 4 1/2' and put posts. Across the 25' direction I would set 2 posts 8'4" in from the corner posts. Let them posts sit up high enough out of deck to become your rail supports. Of course you may have a gate somewhere as well....which could change these measurements. You may also want to run posts up on the corners back by the wall...just for your rails.

Where it gets a little tricky is I usually would put a straight line on the 4 1/2' posts and run it the 25' way then set a post or 2 that are below deck level. Then run a 2x6 the 25' way and attach to the posts. This will then give the center of your deck support for joists to sit on. Your deck is so close to the ground, you may not be able to do this.

 

[Ericpwp]

DCA 6 - Prescriptive Residential Deck Construction Guide

I gave that doc to the wife and she is not talking to me now. It says no 4x4 post, only 6x6. Were we were going to attach the ledger is the start of the brick veneer about a foot above the solid masonry wall. We may be looking to free float it, but that means deeper footing. I think her footings are undersized too.

 

[seedubs1]

This. Run your posts up through your deck. That's the only good way to do it. Cutting off posts and bolting on rail posts is a fools errand and less robust.

Also, don't sink your posts in concrete filled holes. Use the proper post bases that bolt onto your concrete footer. That way your posts don't wick up moisture from the ground and rot out. Do it right the first time.

I usually allow my posts to extend up through the deck so they support my spindles, but some people cut them off under deck and then use bolt on posts.

 

[seedubs1]

Depends on joist dimensions. Use the right joist, and you can span pretty far and have your posts fairly far apart. Lots of online calculators to figure what dimension lumber you need for the span you're going for.

My Ledger would be 25 feet.

obviously the red line is the ledger board placement.

I was talking to a co worker. He built a deck last summer and said his posts are 4 feet apart, so thats what I was going to plan. But if I could go our to every 5 feet that would let me use 2 less posts.

 

[Rookie]

My Ledger would be 25 feet.

obviously the red line is the ledger board placement.

I was talking to a co worker. He built a deck last summer and said his posts are 4 feet apart, so thats what I was going to plan. But if I could go our to every 5 feet that would let me use 2 less posts.

I know you're trying to save money, but a dog is not an appropriate post to support your deck. However, the chair and the down spout will support the ledger board adequately.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I gave that doc to the wife and she is not talking to me now. It says no 4x4 post, only 6x6. Were we were going to attach the ledger is the start of the brick veneer about a foot above the solid masonry wall. We may be looking to free float it, but that means deeper footing. I think her footings are undersized too.

I was talking about this with a buddy of mine that said he attached his porch to the brick veneer of his house. There's usually a gap between the veneer and the structure of the house. He drilled the holes for his ledger bolts/lag screws and planned on putting in bolts/screws long enough to hit the rim joist. After he drilled the holes, he used expanding foam and injected that behind the veneer so that when he tightened the screws, he wouldn't pull the veneer and breaker the mortar joints. He said it worked pretty well and the porch/house is like 10-15 years old now.

 

[Ericpwp]

Hmmmn, interesting, thanks.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

maybe extend the deck 1' past the house (or stairs that way), then run your downspout to tile under the deck, and bury further away?

Also, when you set your posts, get a picture of the best one. We need more quality posts on INGO.