Red dots on handguns are for play (change my mind)

[Gabriel]

Shooting a gun is like throwing a baseball, the ball will go where the eyes lay. Ever see the girl shoot an arrow with her feet? Dang straight, she hit the target.

So I just have to look at what I want to hit and my hands will magically point the gun at the exact right spot and I'll hit it? Damn, shooting is a lot easier than I thought.

 

[Brad69]

I train with several INGO comrades we take some big classes. I am the only one that has not made the jump on pistols.

They are definitely better with dots than with out.

I do however use EOtech on my carbines with great effect.

 

[gregkl]

So I just have to look at what I want to hit and my hands will magically point the gun at the exact right spot and I'll hit it? Damn, shooting is a lot easier than I thought.

lol, maybe not quite that easy but there is something to instinctive shooting. I know plenty of archers who shoot without any kind of sighting aid whatsoever on their bows.

They intently focus on the exact point they want the arrow to go. And they practice doing that. A lot.

They could then regularly put arrows in the vitals of a deer at up to 25 yards, but usually much closer.

How, and if, that all transfers to pistol shooting, I can't answer. I have been shooting for quite a few years now and I still do rather poorly compared to competitive shooters.

 

[cedartop]

lol, maybe not quite that easy but there is something to instinctive shooting. I know plenty of archers who shoot without any kind of sighting aid whatsoever on their bows.

They intently focus on the exact point they want the arrow to go. And they practice doing that. A lot.

They could then regularly put arrows in the vitals of a deer at up to 25 yards, but usually much closer.

How, and if, that all transfers to pistol shooting, I can't answer. I have been shooting for quite a few years now and I still do rather poorly compared to competitive shooters.

There is nothing instinctive about shooting a firearm. Target focus is not point shooting. If most people don't practice enough to hit with sights, they sure as hell don't practice enough to hit without them.

 

[mcapo]

There is nothing instinctive about shooting a firearm.....

This is for danged-sure. As my round count with a pistol has decreased the past decade, my ability to shoot has gone from average to adequate to WTF????

A red dot gives a little of this back...a little.

 

[ShimmeringTrees]

Instinct-a natural propensity or skill of a specified kind.



Hand-eye coordination, or eye-hand coordination, is the ability to do activities that require the simultaneous use of our hands and eyes, like an activity that uses the information our eyes perceive (visual spatial perception) to guide our hands to carry out a movement.

We use our eyes to direct attention to a stimulus and help the brain understand where the body is located in space (self-perception).

We use our hands to simultaneously carry out a determined task based on the visual information our eyes receive

CogniFit

Hand-eye Coordination: What is hand-eye coordination, examples, related disorders, tools to assess, and improve this cognitive skill

www.cognifit.com

I firmly believe that the two correlate. It is a motor skill. Visual observation of a target should bring the sights directly inline with your eyes and target. It is similar to leaving your opposite eye open while looking down an optic. Don't come at me with training, either. Training is developing a motor program. I do believe the OP has a valid point in they're just a fad, or all the rage. I believe that, the readiness of a sidearm is for a quick response to CQB situation. The idea of staring down the sights of an optic ready handgun, changes the focal point of your surrounding. Thus, decreasing your awareness to other threats. Furthermore, that's why there 15+1. There is 15 to find the target and 1 to end the target.

Trolly trolly troll

 

[Goodcat]

This is possibly the worst advice I’ve seen posted on ingo. If any of what you said is true, everyone needs to ditch their rifle red dot optics and go back to irons. It is 2023, technology and reliability and repeatability of that technology has changed, as has training. I’ve never known a serious shooter to not become significantly more proficient with the proper training on an RDS setup, and still maintain their skill set with iron sights. Change out RMR or Acro batteries once per year on your birthday if you wish. Don’t buy cheap. Happy birthday.

 

[ShimmeringTrees]

Rifle or handgun. I think it's handgun.

 

[cedartop]

Instinct-a natural propensity or skill of a specified kind.



Hand-eye coordination, or eye-hand coordination, is the ability to do activities that require the simultaneous use of our hands and eyes, like an activity that uses the information our eyes perceive (visual spatial perception) to guide our hands to carry out a movement.

We use our eyes to direct attention to a stimulus and help the brain understand where the body is located in space (self-perception).

We use our hands to simultaneously carry out a determined task based on the visual information our eyes receive

CogniFit

Hand-eye Coordination: What is hand-eye coordination, examples, related disorders, tools to assess, and improve this cognitive skill

www.cognifit.com

I firmly believe that the two correlate. It is a motor skill. Visual observation of a target should bring the sights directly inline with your eyes and target. It is similar to leaving your opposite eye open while looking down an optic. Don't come at me with training, either. Training is developing a motor program. I do believe the OP has a valid point in they're just a fad, or all the rage. I believe that, the readiness of a sidearm is for a quick response to CQB situation. The idea of staring down the sights of an optic ready handgun, changes the focal point of your surrounding. Thus, decreasing your awareness to other threats. Furthermore, that's why there 15+1. There is 15 to find the target and 1 to end the target.

Trolly trolly troll

Pointing is instinctive. Holding a contained explosion at arms length isn't. The rest of what you talk about are athletic endeavors and I agree that some people are naturally better at things of that nature than others. With hard work they are the ones who become champions in their fields.

Your last paragraph makes me think you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[ShimmeringTrees]

I understand the purpose of red dots. Yes, they are practical and there's no doubt in that. In terms of target acquisition, I don't believe red dots are necessary. There are colored dots on the front foresight to bring the focus to the front sight, and then target. I'm not talking small targets. I'm talking man sized, at close proximity.

 

[BoilerWes]

Gave red dots a try last year. Having shot open sights my whole life, I initially did not see what all the fuss was about. In fact, I was ready to ditch them and go back to regular sights. Then, I watched this video and it changed my approach to them and shooting in general. So much bunk on the internet in regards to shooting technique. #gripmatters

 

[MCgrease08]

There are colored dots on the front foresight to bring the focus to the front sight, and then target. I'm not talking small targets. I'm talking man sized, at close proximity.

Pistols with iron sights are the only weapon I can think of that requires the user to look at the weapon rather than the threat (target).

You don't look at the end of the sword before swinging it at an opponent. You don't stare at the end of a cannon before lobbying artillery at the enemy.

Red dots allow for a target focus. Irons require the user to look at the target, then the front sight, then the rear sight, then back to the front sight. Pretty inefficient if you ask me.

 

[mark40sw]

So I just have to look at what I want to hit and my hands will magically point the gun at the exact right spot and I'll hit it? Damn, shooting is a lot easier than I thought.

 

[92FSTech]

Furthermore, that's why there 15+1. There is 15 to find the target and 1 to end the target.

I really hope you are just trolling and don't actually believe that. If you do, I hope I'm nowhere near you on the day you feel you need to defend yourself with a pistol.

 

[Bassat]

Pistols with iron sights are the only weapon I can think of that requires the user to look at the weapon rather than the threat (target).

You don't look at the end of the sword before swinging it at an opponent. You don't stare at the end of a cannon before lobbying artillery at the enemy.

Red dots allow for a target focus. Irons require the user to look at the target, then the front sight, then the rear sight, then back to the front sight. Pretty inefficient if you ask me.

Your last paragraph belies everything I've ever known about shooting. You are describing 2 entirely different types of shooting (hunting and self-defense), and attributing that difference to the sights. With IRON SIGHTS when shooting a small target at distance, you MUST use the 'look at target, look at front sight, look at rear sight, back to front sight' method. The best word I can come up with for that type of shooting in a self-defense situation is STUPID. If you waste the kind of time needed for sight alignment in hunting, in a self-defense setting, why bother carrying a gun? You will be bleeding out on the ground long before you get your first shot off. Self defense shooting, especially inside of 6 or 7 yards, REQUIRES that you be proficient at point-shooting. Take the time to put the front sight on the target, then press the trigger. I train to discharge the round with a focused front sight, and a blurry target. Rear sight? Really? Back and forth? Really? I hope you never have to use that method to defend yourself or your loved ones. Perhaps you do actually NEED RDS.

 

[cedartop]

Gave red dots a try last year. Having shot open sights my whole life, I initially did not see what all the fuss was about. In fact, I was ready to ditch them and go back to regular sights. Then, I watched this video and it changed my approach to them and shooting in general. So much bunk on the internet in regards to shooting technique. #gripmatters

That is actually a great video (though man those dudes with Daniel are cringy AF) to illustrate a lot of what we are talking about here. It is pretty standard stuff but Daniel does drop some nuggets. Most of what he demos here he learned when he was a kid from DR Middlebrooks and the FistFire system. I have the books and video and have trained FistFire with Paul Sharp so I am familiar with it. Nothing he is showing is what we think of when we think instinctive. He says you have to build a grip a certain way and do it consistently and then practice it. When he was with AMU he was shooting 1,000s of rounds a day. He even says near the end if you are shooting less than 10,000 rounds a year you have to shoot one way, if more than 10,000 another way. People sometimes get confused into thinking that they can shoot like a championship shooter but not doing championship shooter stuff.

 

[ShimmeringTrees]

Red dots suck!

 

[NHT3]

lol, maybe not quite that easy but there is something to instinctive shooting. I know plenty of archers who shoot without any kind of sighting aid whatsoever on their bows.

They intently focus on the exact point they want the arrow to go. And they practice doing that. A lot.

They could then regularly put arrows in the vitals of a deer at up to 25 yards, but usually much closer.

How, and if, that all transfers to pistol shooting, I can't answer. I have been shooting for quite a few years now and I still do rather poorly compared to competitive shooters.

Practice A LOT is the operative phrase in your statement.. When I was a kid I would shoot flies off the shed in our back yard with a BB gun. Never looked at the paltry sights it had but I wore the gun out shooting it. I wouldn't want to guess how many BBs went down that barrel.. Thanks for reminding me of more simple and enjoyable times.

 

[Trigger Time]

Practice A LOT is the operative phrase in your statement.. When I was a kid I would shoot flies off the shed in our back yard with a BB gun. Never looked at the paltry sights it had but I wore the gun out shooting it. I wouldn't want to guess how many BBs went down that barrel.. Thanks for reminding me of more simple and enjoyable times.

Those were the days
I did the same. That bb gun of mine is in my closet

 

[gregkl]

That is actually a great video (though man those dudes with Daniel are cringy AF) to illustrate a lot of what we are talking about here. It is pretty standard stuff but Daniel does drop some nuggets. Most of what he demos here he learned when he was a kid from DR Middlebrooks and the FistFire system. I have the books and video and have trained FistFire with Paul Sharp so I am familiar with it. Nothing he is showing is what we think of when we think instinctive. He says you have to build a grip a certain way and do it consistently and then practice it. When he was with AMU he was shooting 1,000s of rounds a day. He even says near the end if you are shooting less than 10,000 rounds a year you have to shoot one way, if more than 10,000 another way. People sometimes get confused into thinking that they can shoot like a championship shooter but not doing championship shooter stuff.

I think I will do some of those drills. Maybe I should run the 20 Alpha until I succeed!