Gr666mer Updates

[Epicenity]

While I'm sure there are some religious types out there who fall into this category, they seem to be extremely few and far between, and I can't actually recall having encountered one.

Perhaps you could re-read this thread. Or possibly even the title There is a clue there....

However, I have encountered many, many irreligious zealots, who will unquestioningly uphold whatever pronouncements come from the mouths of those whom they call "the experts" or "the professionals" or "the educated." Whatever phrase they choose to use, it's always a vague term that, as far as I can tell, simply means that group of scientists who agree, 100%, with the political left and the radical agendas promoted by the left. Any scientist who does not toe the line and march in lockstep with these ideologies is censored by social media, often forced from their position by pressure applied to their employer, and to the greatest extent the left can manage, never allowed to present their findings and evidence in a publiclly

Have you ever read history? If so, did you forget that

The moment "The Experts" become more important than logic and reason, to the point where one is not allowed to debate or ask for explanations of what they say,

The existence of idiotic zealots on "the other side" doesn't make original zealots any more correct.

People are experts because they have learned from, in part, the logic and reason used before them to make scientific discoveries.

100% agreement is not how science works.

Whatever phrase they choose to use, it's always a vague term that, as far as I can tell, simply means that group of scientists who agree, 100%, with the political left and the radical agendas promoted by the left.

I feel like you do understand and respect what an expert is. If the tragic event occurred that you had a cancerous tumor, I'm sure would consult someone who's description ended with "doctor on oncology" and you would trust they chose treatment options based on science. To continue your example if there was an oncologist saying you should just give tithes to Athena and drink more cherry coke, i.e. "not towing the line", they would be forced off social media too.

 

[Lpherr]

As life long victim of this kind of hate based on ignorance and religious bigotry, I feel inclined to speak out when possible. There are all kinds variations in human development and no matter how hard you hate, they probably won't go away. God apparently made man, woman and several types in-between. If you are not aware of that, you are uneducated.

I knew I misunderstood that whole Adam and Eve malarkey.

I, along with others I'm sure, would be very interested in your source for your statement, that has evidence to support "several types in-between".

Please... educate us.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

1) Please read this twice: NOBODY IS "CHOPPING OF A MALE CHILD'S ENTIRE GENITALS AND INJECTING HIM WITH ARTIFICIAL HORMONES". Nobody.

If you really believe that hospitals like the one talked about at the beginning of this thread aren't doing exactly that, then I don't really know what I can tell you to prove otherwise. For obvious reasons, they aren't always very specific about what they are doing to these children, but I can't imagine what else they mean when they say things like "gender affirming surgery." If you don't think they're doing this to children, I can only hope you'll agree with me that IF they were doing it, it would be nefarious and evil.

2) Can you not see the difference between the large scale cutting up LITERAL CHILDREN'S genitals because of ancient superstition without their consent, and the voluntary altering of an adults to align a brain body mismatch?

This is absolutely preposterous. Trimming extra skin off is NOT the same as chopping off an entire organ. Are there any limits to what you would do to someone to fix a supposed "brain body mismatch"? There are stories out there (I honestly don't know if they're real or not, it's so hard to tell these days) of people who thought they ought to be blind or disabled finding doctors willing to remove their limbs or blind them to "affirm" their body image.

On the other side, is there anything you would find acceptable to do to a child without their consent? Are trimming their nails and hair also off-limits? Those, like circumcision, are also things that are widely done by the general public for no religious reason, but if they are being done by some people for a religious significance, do they also suddenly become child mutilation done by religious extremists?

For me, the line is clear; you don't chop off healthy, functioning organs, nor alter a healthy, functioning body just because someone "thinks" their body shouldn't be that way. If someone has a healthy, functioning body, and they think it's not right, that's a mental disorder.

 

[printcraft]

I knew I misunderstood that whole Adam and Eve malarkey.

I, along with others I'm sure, would be very interested in your source for your statement, that has evidence to support "several types in-between".

Please... educate us.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

That's a lot of words to say that you can't answer the question.

Also, I'm not angry. I'm not the one threating people and buildings and hurling insults.

Uh, is the question what is the difference between men and women? Chromosomes, DNA.

I'm sorry I cannot give you the answer you want to hear. Organs do not define sex or gender. DNA does.

 

[Lpherr]

I haven't heard of an "in-between" Platypus.
Has one altered their body because they had "brain and body disconnect"?

 

[Epicenity]

I knew I misunderstood that whole Adam and Eve malarkey.

I, along with others I'm sure, would be very interested in your source for your statement, that has evidence to support "several types in-between".

Please... educate us.

Intersex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are welcome.

 

[Lpherr]

Intersex - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are welcome.

That wasn't created by God.
Most are considered defects, and are a result of any number of reasons, but God wasn't one of them.

You're welcome.

 

[Epicenity]

If you really believe that hospitals like the one talked about at the beginning of this thread aren't doing exactly that, then I don't really know what I can tell you to prove otherwise. For obvious reasons, they aren't always very specific about what they are doing to these children, but I can't imagine what else they mean when they say things like "gender affirming surgery." If you don't think they're doing this to children, I can only hope you'll agree with me that IF they were doing it, it would be nefarious and evil.



This is absolutely preposterous. Trimming extra skin off is NOT the same as chopping off an entire organ. Are there any limits to what you would do to someone to fix a supposed "brain body mismatch"? There are stories out there (I honestly don't know if they're real or not, it's so hard to tell these days) of people who thought they ought to be blind or disabled finding doctors willing to remove their limbs or blind them to "affirm" their body image.

On the other side, is there anything you would find acceptable to do to a child without their consent? Are trimming their nails and hair also off-limits? Those, like circumcision, are also things that are widely done by the general public for no religious reason, but if they are being done by some people for a religious significance, do they also suddenly become child mutilation done by religious extremists?

For me, the line is clear; you don't chop off healthy, functioning organs, nor alter a healthy, functioning body just because someone "thinks" their body shouldn't be that way. If someone has a healthy, functioning body, and they think it's not right, that's a mental disorder.

I think surgeries should be given to people at whatever age is deemed appropriate based on scientific knowledge available. Denying people medical based on someone's uneducated, not medical "feelings" about things barbaric. I don't know you, but I would like some evidence that you are qualified to diagnose mental disorders.

Your reply to my question is insufficient in that you really didn't try to answer it, and the question you present this reply seems non-serious. Can you not understand the difference between permanently altering someone's genitals, for no reason other than mythology and cutting off non-living, re-growing tissue like hair?

 

[buckwacker]

The arrogance just oozes out of this one.

 

[HoughMade]

Have you considered that medical professionals have realized that doesn't work? Maybe for the same reason that a lot of states banned "conversion therapy"?

So, you're saying that based upon completely objective information and studies leading to unbiased conclusions, completely divorced from politics, psychological therapy will never be beneficial in helping a person who believes they are not of their biological gender to accept their biological gender as their identity? Everyone? No exceptions?

Not a single person can benefit from therapy without surgery or medication designed to give more of an appearance in line with what is not their biological gender according to anatomy, DNA, etc.?

Ok.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And there are some of us that think a grown ass adult can do what they want. Want the surgery? Go for it.

What I object to is them forcing changes due to their differences on everyone else, ruining things.

Like insisting on using the ladies locker room when you are still intact pre-surgery, and then when the other girls complain that he is watching them change and makes them feel uncomfortable they make the biological girls leave the locker room and change in a single stall bathroom. (true story)

And this is a lizard, even though it has no legs.

 

[Epicenity]

That wasn't created by God.
Most are considered defects, and are a result of any number of reasons, but God wasn't one of them.

You're welcome.

That wasn't created by God.
Most are considered defects, and are a result of any number of reasons, but God wasn't one of them.

You're welcome.

I agree that they weren't created by god, because no god created any of us but I think you believe he did. So in your opinion, did god make mistakes in these cases?


So we consider them defects, so what. That doesn't give you the right to be cruel, or deny them equal care or treatment, or try to bully them to fit a mold you think they should.

 

[Epicenity]

So, you're saying that based upon completely objective information and studies leading to unbiased conclusions, completely divorced from politics, psychological therapy will never be beneficial in helping a person who believes they are not of their biological gender to accept their biological gender as their identity? Everyone? No exceptions?

Not a single person can benefit from therapy without surgery or medication designed to give more of an appearance in line with what is not their biological gender according to anatomy, DNA, etc.?

Ok.

I don't understand the black and white/ all or nothing mentality. For the medically diagnosed ones, yes therapy won't work.

 

[mmpsteve]

...
So we consider them defects, so what. That doesn't give you the right to be cruel, or deny them equal care or treatment, or try to bully them to fit a mold you think they should.

No one is saying adults should be denied care or bullied. As an adult, do whatever the hell you want, or can afford.

But leave the kids alone. Do you not understand this?

.

 

[Epicenity]

No one is saying adults should be denied care or bullied. As an adult, do whatever the hell you want, or can afford.

But leave the kids alone. Do you not understand this?

.

The first part of your statement disregards the hate, bullying, murder, denial of medicine and legislation against trans/intersex people.

Diabetic children die without insulin. Are we wrong giving it to them?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I think surgeries should be given to people at whatever age is deemed appropriate based on scientific knowledge available. Denying people medical based on someone's uneducated, not medical "feelings" about things barbaric. I don't know you, but I would like some evidence that you are qualified to diagnose mental disorders.

You have two fundamental misunderstandings here.

The first is in regards to when we need experts to tell us things. In your previous example of a tumor, you need an expert to tell you how to treat it because it's a complicated, difficult condition, without a solution that's obvious to the average person. However, you DON'T have to be an expert to tell someone that they won't benefit at all by drinking cherry coke and paying tithes to Athena. That's something the average person is able to figure out for himself based on some pretty basic knowledge, combined with logic. By the same token, I don't pretend to have the medical expertise to be able to accurately diagnose the intricacies of all the mental disorders involved in different cases of gender dysphoria, not do I claim to be able to give the most effective treatment for such. But I don't have to be an expert to tell you that cutting off perfectly healthy, functioning organs is not the answer for someone who doesn't feel comfortable with their body.

The second is in regard to what current scientific knowledge actually tells us. You seem to have a total lack of understanding of just how much sway politicians hold over the medical establishment in our country right now. Who gets government funding and can take medicaid, medicare, etc, whose finding get published and presented to the public, what procedures are approved and legal, all these things are determined by politicians, bureaucrats appointed by politicians, or powerful media figures. Thus on politically-charged issues, we see the medical community tending to take their cues from politicians, not the other war around as it should be. When you see a scientist on CNN giving their opinion on a matter, it's not typically because they are the most qualified on the subject, but more often because they cozied up to the right political figures. If you look at actual studies, ones that rely on numbers and data and not just subjective opinions written by politically-motivated "experts", they do NOT support the idea that the solution to gender dysphoria is to try to confirm the delusion by mutilating a person's body to look/function more like the gender they incorrectly believe they are.

Your reply to my question is insufficient in that you really didn't try to answer it, and the question you present this reply seems non-serious. Can you not understand the difference between permanently altering someone's genitals, for no reason other than mythology and cutting off non-living, re-growing tissue like hair?

No, I don't really see a fundamental difference between circumcision and things like trimming nails and hair. Yes, it won't grow back to the way it was before, but it doesn't affect the function of the organ at all. What about things like piercing ears, then? That also won't go back to normal on its own (not for a very long time, anyways) so are you opposed to that for children, too? Even if you are opposed to circumcision and piercing ears, I can kind of sympathize with that position; I would just wonder why you don't trust the medical "experts" who say that circumcision is healthier for the child, but want us to trust the "experts" who say that trying to mutilate the child's body to look like another gender is better for the child.

No, my questions were not non-serious; I really want to know where you draw the line. If someone's brain tells them they should be blind, and the medical experts determine that there's no way to change the brain to match the way the person's body is, I really do want to know your reasoning for why blinding the person would be different that chopping of one's genitals.

 

[printcraft]

The first part of your statement disregards the hate, bullying, murder, denial of medicine and legislation against trans/intersex people.

Diabetic children die without insulin. Are we wrong giving it to them?

They are going to die without genital "reconstruction"?
Trans/intersex sounds like a serious disease.

 

[mmpsteve]

The first part of your statement disregards the hate, bullying, murder, denial of medicine and legislation against trans/intersex people.

Diabetic children die without insulin. Are we wrong giving it to them?

So you're equating diabetes to gender dysphoria in young children - dysphoria probably coached into them by batshit cray cray parents.

You are not a serious person. Good luck, seriously, with whatever ails you.

.

 

[Tombs]

Diabetic children die without insulin. Are we wrong giving it to them?

If they aren't diabetic, yes you would be wrong to give it to them. It will kill them.

A mental health crisis is not a medical crisis. Just as you would not give insulin to someone who believed they were diabetic when they actually weren't.

Big pharma loves to sell drugs and elective surgery. Which is why regulations exist on treatment, and also why people with a mental illness shouldn't be exploited into drugs and elective surgeries that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars with life long financial obligations to big pharma.

This is modern day lobotomization. Many doctors sweared by it back in the day too, just like they did smoking, etc. Money has a tendency to make people do stupid things.