DNR begins $30 Million Monon South Trail Development

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Now why would anyone run if no one's chasing him?

Seriously, I don't think I'd ever run for office. But if there were a party of "Nope" I'd join it.

Me too.

 

[ancjr]

Just a few comments:

The City of New Albany doesn't even have a functional Main street and is very proud of this project. I wonder where their priorities are?

The railroad was originally chartered in 1850 as a state public right of way.

People are so lazy they won't even leave parking spaces open for disabled people and walk a little extra.

I've had to pick up trash and human excrement, drug paraphernalia and deal with theft, vandalism as well as cars parking and blocking my driveway because of this 63 miles of bureaucratic blight. The people most excited about this are the thieves, dopers and perverts looking to evade law enforcement and private property owners in pursuit of illegal activity.

 

[JettaKnight]

If you get aome benefit from that trail. Why can’t you pitch in? Was it paid for with state funds? I’m not using it. It doesn’t increase my property value. If it’s paid from tax dollars I’ve paid in, why should I have to pay for your ****?

Autopsies and light houses.

 

[JettaKnight]

If you get aome benefit from that trail. Why can’t you pitch in? Was it paid for with state funds? I’m not using it. It doesn’t increase my property value. If it’s paid from tax dollars I’ve paid in, why should I have to pay for your ****?

Are you seriously going to say that having local trails and recreation isn't an improvement that increases property values?

Next thing you'll be saying is, "why should my tax dollars be used to fight crime in your neighborhood?" Maybe we should just go back to private fire fighters.

 

[JettaKnight]

Now why would anyone run if no one's chasing him?

Seriously, I don't think I'd ever run for office. But if there were a party of "Nope" I'd join it.

99% of the people won't do anything, they just bitch about those that do.

 

[Ingomike]

It’s a recreational path. Take up a collection.

So any driving for recreation should be billed to those drivers or not allowed as that might cost taxpayers? Seems binary…

 

[oze]

I live close to the Pufferbelly Trail and ride it regularly, and often to work and back. It's a huge boon to everyone around including home owners as it increases their property value. It's a massive factor in the quantity of life for our denizens.



This thread proves that INGO can complain about anything.

My only complaint is that there's no trail out here in Aboite to connect to the rest of the city. Waaaa!

 

[oze]

Or not spend any on trails and lower the tax rates.

Yee-haw! I can't wait to see what my share of *that* monumental tax break will be.

 

[oze]

It’s a recreational path. Take up a collection.

How far do we extend this argument? I'll start. My adult kids never use schools anymore, so why should my taxes pay for them? You want a school in your neighborhood? Take up a collection.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

How far do we extend this argument? I'll start. My adult kids never use schools anymore, so why should my taxes pay for them? You want a school in your neighborhood? Take up a collection.

Good point. How about the people who don't use public ranges for shooting, public land for hunting, or rivers and lakes for fishing? Should they pay taxes supporting those activities?

 

[oze]

Good point. How about the people who don't use public ranges for shooting, public land for hunting, or rivers and lakes for fishing? Should they pay taxes supporting those activities?

Yes! Something something Common Good something something

 

[jamil]

How far do we extend this argument? I'll start. My adult kids never use schools anymore, so why should my taxes pay for them? You want a school in your neighborhood? Take up a collection.

Okay. You asked the question, so how far can you take your argument? Self defense is a right. Ammo’s too expensive. It oppresses poor people because they can’t afford to defend themselves. Government should provide ammo. How about this one? Government should help subsidize rich people's Teslas.

Instead of trying to reduce my point of view to absurdity, maybe it would be more fruitful for you to acknowledge that there is a point at which government should not fund a thing that some people want. But I'm sure you're not really wanting to say that, even though that's where your argument leads. What can't be justified with that?

So we likely can have a good faith discussion. But you need to reset your expectation of what the discussion really is. It's not about whether there should be a line. It's not even about about whether you or I have the line in the right place. I do, of course. It's about people's opinion on the internet about what the government should or should not pay for.

 

[oze]

Okay. You asked the question, so how far can you take your argument? Self defense is a right. Ammo’s too expensive. It oppresses poor people because they can’t afford to defend themselves. Government should provide ammo. How about this one? Government should help subsidize rich people's Teslas.

Instead of trying to reduce my point of view to absurdity, maybe it would be more fruitful for you to acknowledge that there is a point at which government should not fund a thing that some people want. But I'm sure you're not really wanting to say that, even though that's where your argument leads. What can't be justified with that?

So we likely can have a good faith discussion. But you need to reset your expectation of what the discussion really is. It's not about whether there should be a line. It's not even about about whether you or I have the line in the right place. I do, of course. It's about people's opinion on the internet about what the government should or should not pay for.

My point was that I think tha there are things that governments should provide; in this case, subsidizing bike trails. Your stated opinion is that, since you don't use them, the government, through your taxes, shouldn't pay for them. From that position, I inferred that you believe that we, as taxpayers, should be able to pick and choose where our tax dollars go, something like a line-item veto for all 200 million or so of us. It sounded good to me until I told a pro-abortion coworker that I shouldn't have to fund Planned Parenthood, because that is forcing me to pay for something that is morally abhorrent to me. They said that they were morally against war, and shouldn't have to pay for the military. I guess I lost that one.

 

[jamil]

Yes! Something something Common Good something something

What can't be justified with common good? Is there a line where something can't be justified? I'm arguing that there is and that the line is short of $30M recreational trails, only of use to a relatively small portion of those who had to pay for it, and the use of eniment domain to acquire it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What can't be justified with common good? Is there a line where something can't be justified? I'm arguing that there is and that the line is short of $30M recreational trails, only of use to a relatively small portion of those who had to pay for it, and the use of eniment domain to acquire it.

I think the “common good” has been corrupted as badly as “general welfare”.

 

[jamil]

My point was that I think tha there are things that governments should provide; in this case, subsidizing bike trails. Your stated opinion is that, since you don't use them, the government, through your taxes, shouldn't pay for them. From that position, I inferred that you believe that we, as taxpayers, should be able to pick and choose where our tax dollars go, something like a line-item veto for all 200 million or so of us. It sounded good to me until I told a pro-abortion coworker that I shouldn't have to fund Planned Parenthood, because that is forcing me to pay for something that is morally abhorrent to me. They said that they were morally against war, and shouldn't have to pay for the military. I guess I lost that one.

You should have inferred that there is a line to be drawn for justifying the use of the power of the state against those who don't want the thing. Like I said. I'd love to have the Monon South trail in my back yard. Your school argument doesn't fit because everyone has neighborhood schools, now. Were you tacitly saying the state should fund $30M trails in every community, and forcefully acquiring the land? No. I assume you're not making that argument.

Oh. And you only lost the planned parrenthood vs war argument because you gave up on it.

About that. Get into that same argument again and ask whether they want their tax dollars to fund the war in Ukraine?

 

[oze]

About that. Get into that same argument again and ask whether they want their tax dollars to fund the war in Ukraine?

Unfortunately, they are part of the Left that is in bed with part of the Right on this issue, and would say "No".

 

[jamil]

I think the “common good” has been corrupted as badly as “general welfare”.

There are a few phrases that get us into trouble by justifying anything. Those two are biggies, and so is "out of an abundance of caution." They're all related. They all exploit the group instincts within us all to feel like we're fighting a common foe.

For the common good.

Promote the general welfare.

Another, "we're all in this together."

Nah. We're in it together to the extent that the group is stronger than the individual, and we use the group to help us survive. But that can be exploited to justify using the group's power against individuals to justify pretty much anything.

You know. Like, this: Hey, that's some nice land you got there. I think that would great for this bike trails project the Governor wants to do for his monument to his Governorship. So, we'll just be taking that land. Hope you don't mind too much. But if your complaints become a nuisance, we'll just take that nice front yard of yours to accommodate homeless tents. Because it's for the greater good. We're only looking out for everyone's general welfare. We're all in this together. Don't you want to be a team player? Why do you hate democracy?

 

[jamil]

Unfortunately, they are part of the Left that is in bed with part of the Right on this issue, and would say "No".

If you don't stand in firm, overt support of Ukraine, you're literally Hitler. If you don't have Ukrainian colors on your profile in any social media, you're literally Hitler. People I know who are left wing pacifists are pushing for the US to keep sending money and arms. People are broken. Their side has taken over their model of the world. They don't have a worldview now. They have a side.

Point is. They're against war until their side is for it. Then they're for it. Because they derive morality from their side, not their model of reality.

 

[jamil]

I suspect that the reason people are so eager to justify spending other people's $30M for the bike paths in their own backyards, rather than trying to use private means, it's just way easier to have the government do it.

Little to no chance of failure. Virtually no chance funds will fall short. Virtually no chance the people who are against the idea can have any real say to stop it. No chance that land owners can opt out. It's about risk. If it's funded privately there's a fair chance it won't happen. Get uncle sugar agree to do it, it's a done deal but for the doing.