Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[DragonGunner]

Here’s a twist. Jesus never said remember my birth, he said remember my death. Jesus never called Mary his mother. He called her “woman.” And when people praised her and she wanted to see Him. Jesus said who is my mother? All who come after me is my mother and my brothers……there no place for Mary worship. And at death he said to John, behold your mother. And to his mother, woman, behold your son. (John).

 

[foszoe]

Here’s a twist. Jesus never said remember my birth, he said remember my death. Jesus never called Mary his mother. He called her “woman.” And when people praised her and she wanted to see Him. Jesus said who is my mother? All who come after me is my mother and my brothers……there no place for Mary worship. And at death he said to John, behold your mother. And to his mother, woman, behold your son. (John).

Your underlying premise is EVERYTHING Jesus said is in the Bible.

I would reject that premise.

 

[ditcherman]

Your underlying premise is EVERYTHING Jesus said is in the Bible.

I would reject that premise.

Ok, but is it safe to assume that everything that we need to know that Jesus said is in the Bible?

 

[45sRfun]

Now for the pop quiz. What kind of car did the apostles drive?

A Honda. Acts 2:1 says they had an Accord.

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

 

[foszoe]

Ok, but is it safe to assume that everything that we need to know that Jesus said is in the Bible?

That is an interesting question.

Do you know Christians who will tell you Jesus spoke to them in time of need?

 

[ditcherman]

That is an interesting question.

Do you know Christians who will tell you Jesus spoke to them in time of need?

If I can replace Jesus with God in your question (or assume one and the same) then yes.

 

[foszoe]

If I can replace Jesus with God in your question (or assume one and the same) then yes.

Then I would say everything we need to know is in the Bible but not in the Bible

I know its not a satisfying answer. But its what I believe.

 

[chipbennett]

That is an interesting question.

Do you know Christians who will tell you Jesus spoke to them in time of need?

That is specific revelation. The Bible is general revelation.

 

[foszoe]

That is specific revelation. The Bible is general revelation.

What is the origin of these terms?

 

[chipbennett]

What is the origin of these terms?

There are likely several meanings, and thus origins, of those terms. My use here is that general revelation is the Bible: God revealing Himself through Scripture in a way that is applicable to all mankind; whereas specific (or special) revelation is God revealing Himself in a way that is applicable to a specific person or group (e.g. dreams, visions, "words", tongues w/interpretation, etc.)

 

[foszoe]

There are likely several meanings, and thus origins, of those terms. My use here is that general revelation is the Bible: God revealing Himself through Scripture in a way that is applicable to all mankind; whereas specific (or special) revelation is God revealing Himself in a way that is applicable to a specific person or group (e.g. dreams, visions, "words", tongues w/interpretation, etc.)

I think I understand what you mean by those terms, but I would like to know where you learned them from or first heard them simply from a curiosity standpoint. I have probably heard them at one point or another and forgotten. Your response was one of conviction so i thought perhaps you knew the history of the terms better. My google foo did turn up the term Special Revelation with General Revelation when I searched for Specific.

It brought up some questions, again from a curiosity standpoint that I couldn't figure out using only those two terms as a dichotomy. So then I thought well there must be more than Special and General categories applied and if I knew the history of the terms, I might be able to better understand their use.

Do you use them as a dichotomy or are there other categories? What are some of the other categories if so that you would use?

 

[chipbennett]

I think I understand what you mean by those terms, but I would like to know where you learned them from or first heard them simply from a curiosity standpoint. I have probably heard them at one point or another and forgotten. Your response was one of conviction so i thought perhaps you knew the history of the terms better. My google foo did turn up the term Special Revelation with General Revelation when I searched for Specific.

It brought up some questions, again from a curiosity standpoint that I couldn't figure out using only those two terms as a dichotomy. So then I thought well there must be more than Special and General categories applied and if I knew the history of the terms, I might be able to better understand their use.

Do you use them as a dichotomy or are there other categories? What are some of the other categories if so that you would use?

It's part of the teaching of the independent Christian church movement - part of the non-essentials ("In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.") I don't know the specific origin, beyond that.

 

[JettaKnight]

It's part of the teaching of the independent Christian church movement - part of the non-essentials ("In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.") I don't know the specific origin, beyond that.

I thought they arose with systematic theology.

However, I don't see those terms in the index of Wayne Grudem's book of that name.

 

[JettaKnight]

Here’s a twist. Jesus never said remember my birth, he said remember my death. Jesus never called Mary his mother. He called her “woman.” And when people praised her and she wanted to see Him. Jesus said who is my mother? All who come after me is my mother and my brothers……there no place for Mary worship. And at death he said to John, behold your mother. And to his mother, woman, behold your son. (John).

I can't tell if you're denying the virgin birth or just the veneration of Mary.

I'll agree on the latter, but not on the former.


As to celebrating Christmas, it's certainly a storied path to arrive where we are today.

 

[Quiet Observer]

What is the origin of these terms?

There are probably several. This is one

Private revelation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[foszoe]

I thought they arose with systematic theology.

However, I don't see those terms in the index of Wayne Grudem's book of that name.

It sounded Roman. I was going with Aquinas but no luck. It certainly feels scholastic in origin

 

[ChristianPatriot]

That is specific revelation. The Bible is general revelation.

General Revelation - What does the Bible say about Creation?

Specific Revelation - Should I take this new job opportunity?

 

[DragonGunner]

Your underlying premise is EVERYTHING Jesus said is in the Bible.

I would reject that premise.

No premise.

 

[foszoe]

Here’s a twist. Jesus never said remember my birth, he said remember my death. Jesus never called Mary his mother. He called her “woman.”

This is the part I must not be understanding. I agree no one should worship Mary.

Are you saying that there is no instance of Jesus saying "remember my birth" or calling Mary mother in scripture or are you saying he never did those things at all?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Not trying to change the subject, just came across this verse and found it interesting.

As Jesus grew up, He increased in His favor with God.