3 year old shot in head in Indy

[the1kidd03]

Since everyone on INGO is so righteous and exempt from mistakes in life I'm sure it'll be easy to pass this off as a "negligent fool" who doesn't deserve any help.

However, since it is related to this topic I thought i would share this for any of those who may wish to help a fellow gun owner family in their time of need.

Alaric Memorial Aid Funding by Eric Capps - GoFundMe

FWIW, the father was just lecturing someone about gun safety around children the morning before this happened. I'm sure the media reports told you that as well as everything else you need to know though.

Lesson to be learned, it LITERALLY takes only seconds for an arm to reach somewhere. You better make sure what you consider "arm's reach" is actually nothing more.

 

[MrsGungho]

I don't know the ages of your children, but with your children at age 3 did you knowingly leave loaded firearms around unattended where they could access them?

I can't answer for 88GT but her house sounds a lot like mine. I never knowingly left loaded firearms unattended on a kitchen counter, dinning room table, night stand etc. I do know that if I did, it wouldn't be touched. I tested with unloaded and the pass every time was "Mommy there is a gun out that needs put away" None of them touched it.

Education can start as early as they can understand. Age isn't the "key" it is each individual child.

 

[Robjps]

Responses in this thread make me feel old and a country bumpkin. Guns are tools same as knives,saws, screwdrivers, toothbrushes, chemicals etc...

Do you lock those things up also?
Do you let your kids run around playing with them?
Do you actually watch and educate your kids?

Guns are dangerous things and should be treated and respected as such same as everything else that is. Recently someone i knows nephew or niece (can't remember) had to go to the hospital because they drank windex. My grandfathers best friend child died to playing with a non inflated balloon. Your kids life is in your hands, watch them educate them teach them responsibility and respect. It will go along way.

I have UNloaded firearms around my house. So far my only problem with 3 kids has been a longarm got knocked over when they were trying to get a toy out from behind it. They don't try to pick them up as they know they aren't supposed to but they do know if they ask i will show it to them and let them hold it and teach them firearm safety in the process. Don't make firearms tabboo it doesn't help. Like sex and drugs they are a part of life and your child requires your education and guidance.

 

[lovemachine]

Anyone that doesn't carry a round in the chamber needs to stop being afraid of guns, and MTFU and get training.

Anyone that carelessly leaves a gun unattended for a child to get ahold is a damned moron.

 

[churchmouse]

Anyone that doesn't carry a round in the chamber needs to stop being afraid of guns, and MTFU and get training.

Anyone that carelessly leaves a gun unattended for a child to get ahold is a damned moron.

And this pretty much covers it.

 

[the1kidd03]

Anyone that doesn't carry a round in the chamber needs to stop being afraid of guns, and MTFU and get training.

Anyone that carelessly leaves a gun unattended for a child to get ahold is a damned moron.

Glad this family was aware of that too.

 

[bwframe]

I'm a strong proponent of conditioning your children to be around guns. I have raised my kids that way and now training my grand children the same. That said, it would be foolish to get lackadaisical or nonchalant in the practice of keeping guns away from hands of young children. Because I train my young loved ones to not touch and report an unattended firearm (or knife, lighter, tool, etc.) does not give me excuse for being sloppy with their placement.

The education of young children to be able to handle themselves around and with guns is ongoing and mainly meant to develop a pattern for the future when children are old enough to be safely handling said firearms. The secondary and more important aspect of child training is that hopefully they will survive a freak firearm exposure that is beyond the responsible adult's control, ie medical condition, injury, even death.

Is there no irony in folks touting allowing their "trained" young children around guns that can be accessed in a thread where other parents have done the same and now have a dead child to account for?

 

[public servant]

I guess my feeling is this. Train your kids to respect firearms. Train them to know right from wrong. But don't EVER, EVER think there is no possibility that your child, no matter what age, couldn't end up like this child. All it takes is one fraction of a second for your entire life to change.

My understanding is that this child reached up to a counter to get his cup of chocolate milk. Instead he got his hand on a gun next to his cup. I'm still unclear if he knocked the gun from the counter and it went off or if he managed to squeeze the trigger as he pulled it towards him, thinking he had his cup.

I know it was an accident...but it was so preventable. I'm not advocating arresting the parent(s). Nothing of that sort would serve a purpose at this point. Maybe these parents thought they could trust their child in the presence of a firearm or perhaps it was merely a very unfortunate set of all bad circumstances... Either way, I ask anyone here that says no matter their child's age, the child can be trusted in the presence of an unattended firearm to rethink their outlook.

Please don't risk it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I heard the additional report on Fox59 last night.

Still trying to get my head around how it happened. Why wasn't it in a holster, why was it next to the chocolate milk?

This is heartbreaking.

 

[the1kidd03]

Is there no irony in folks touting allowing their "trained" young children around guns that can be accessed in a thread where other parents have done the same and now have a dead child to account for?

If we were to assume that what the media is leading you to believe (that the child was unattended with a loaded gun randomly laying wherever an adult hap-hazardly happened to leave it laying around) is true, then sure.

Of course, most people here on INGO seem to be superman and able to close greater distances faster than a speeding bullet to stop things which they could also predict would happen.

However, knowing what went on here this doesn't really apply. I'll be with the family later today/tonight probably. At which time I hope to be able to get confirmation as to what sort of detail they feel comfortable in me sharing. As early as this is, I don't want to push it much though. They are still in a state of shock and going through a very tough time.

 

[yotewacker]

I don't think a three year old would have enough strength to pull a trigger or knowledge to take the safety off.

 

[public servant]

I heard the additional report on Fox59 last night.

Still trying to get my head around how it happened. Why wasn't it in a holster, why was it next to the chocolate milk?

This is heartbreaking.

Kirk, let me ask you, because you're probably one of the most sensible people on the forum... Would you ever leave a loaded firearm unattended around a small child? Is there any amount of training that could be give a child that would make you comfortable enough to do so?

 

[the1kidd03]

All it takes is one fraction of a second for your entire life to change.

THAT is the biggest take away and understatement of this entire thread. If only parents had superman powers to travel faster than time, they might be able to stop a lot of accidents involving childhood injuries before they happen.

I ask anyone here that says no matter their child's age, the child can be trusted in the presence of an unattended firearm

Again, if you were to assume it was unattended. Also, depending on what you define as "unattended." Is something "unattended" if it's only 3 feet away from you? 5 feet? 10 feet? Within sight?

At what point does something cross the line of being "unattended?"

Again, I defer back to the single greatest contribution to this thread.

All it takes is one fraction of a second for your entire life to change.

 

[public servant]

I'll be with the family later today/tonight probably. At which time I hope to be able to get confirmation as to what sort of detail they feel comfortable in me sharing. As early as this is, I don't want to push it much though. They are still in a state of shock and going through a very tough time.

Please express our condolences as a group. If they should need anything please let us know.

 

[the1kidd03]

I heard the additional report on Fox59 last night.

Still trying to get my head around how it happened. Why wasn't it in a holster, why was it next to the chocolate milk?

This is heartbreaking.

I'm hoping to get more clarity tonight. I don't want to ask a lot of details and force them to rethink and thus relive the events this soon, but I'll do what I can. As heart-wrenching as it is for them, it is a learning opportunity for other gun owners.

 

[the1kidd03]

Please express our condolences as a group. If they should need anything please let us know.

You can read more of their story in the link I posted earlier. They recently had some other very misfortunate things happen, including loss of employment. Now, with this happening, amongst other things because of it which aren't covered in the media, and they are still left with trying to not only make funeral arrangements but also paying for them, hospital bills, etc.

Nobody should feel obligated to donate, but even making the effort to share the link so those who would like to, can would be extremely appreciated.

BTW, FWIW, the father is an Iraq vet (Army).

 

[the1kidd03]

I don't think a three year old would have enough strength to pull a trigger or knowledge to take the safety off.

Then at what arbitrary age would you say they could?

I was about 4 or so when I first shot. Pulling the trigger was easy. Flipping the safety was easy. Holding up the gun (long gun) was not. That is where I needed help. For a single action gun, the trigger is not difficult to engage. Virtually no strength is necessary. With a handgun, there is no limitation to where it could be pointed at that time, unlike with a long gun. Self-inflicted wounds with a long gun are much more difficult to accomplish without intent to do so.

 

[bwframe]

If we were to assume that what the media is leading you to believe (that the child was unattended with a loaded gun randomly laying wherever an adult hap-hazardly happened to leave it laying around) is true, then sure...

How does media reporting change that there is a dead child as the result of their parent's actions?

With all due respect, this is NOT an area where one gets to make excuses. It is the parents responsibility to keep their child away from harm from their own lethal weapons and they failed. There is no "oops" here, this was a fatal error that is beyond "my bad."

 

[mom45]

I'm hoping to get more clarity tonight. I don't want to ask a lot of details and force them to rethink and thus relive the events this soon, but I'll do what I can. As heart-wrenching as it is for them, it is a learning opportunity for other gun owners.

Sometimes talking about it and telling the story over and over is a way for people to cope with their grief and get it out there. My cousin lost her four year old daughter in a house fire. She was able to save her toddler twins but could not find the four year old even though she went into the house multiple times trying to get her. The police/fire people finally restrained her and would not let her back in when they arrived. She told her story to us multiple times every time we visited her while she was healing from her burns and such. It was horrible and you never get over a loss like that...ever. Please share our condolences.

My kids were taught gun safety, respect, etc. However, I still did not leave temptation lying around to test them and guns were secured when they lived at home. We hardly ever have children in our home now so I have to remind myself when we have company coming to make sure they are put safely out of harms way.

 

[the1kidd03]

How does media reporting change that there is a dead child as the result of their parent's actions?

Because, it leads you to believe it is a result of "the parent's actions" rather than a result of their "inability to react quickly enough."

Yes, if you really wish to knit pick you could say that it was a conscious decision which laid the groundwork for such an incident, however everyone feels safe and comfortable in their own homes. Therefore, you tend to let things go there under feelings of trust and comfort that you wouldn't otherwise.

No matter what anyone says, I don't believe anyone who states that their EDC firearm has NEVER, for even ONE second in their life, been outside of their arms length unless locked up. People are not immune to ALL lapses in judgment. We're only human.

The events which occurred here are just a lesson to be sure that you're not exaggerating what you consider "arm's length," misunderstanding what you think is "unattended," etc. We have the benefit of hindsight; to judge a situation in terms of how it should have happened or what could have been done to avoid it. Just like in life/death confrontations, you don't have that benefit "in the heat of the moment."

It's easy for us to look back and point out other's fallacies in some form of misguided reconciliation of our own choices, but that doesn't mean we have or will never make a similar, although momentary, lapse in judgment. What we need to keep in mind is, that it only takes a MOMENT, to prove to us that lapse in judgment was a bad one.