Will you take the Covid Vaccine?

[rooster]

Unless you had a previous PFT before illness to compare to the current PFT you will not know how much had been lost.

The "within range" is only compared to what they think your range should be. Initially you may have been well above range and now down into a projected range. So there could still be significant loss.

That’s kinda what I am thinking too, it’s a big range of what’s “normal” My thoughts are that I lost a lot. 2019 I was running 10 mile road races and putting down 20-40 miles a week. 2020 I went out west hunting elk and averaged 18 miles a day in hiking with a 50 pound pack for 7 days at 10k feet.

today I can’t run 1/4 mile.

it’s anecdotal because I don’t have a prior PFT but I highly doubt I was on the low end of the range prior to covid.

I would highly suggest that anyone who hasn’t had covid or the vaccine go get a baseline PFT before you get the vaccine or covid.

 

[Ingomike]

I wish they'd told me that in pharmacy school. I nearly ruined the whole conspiracy!

So big pharma harmed no one in the opiate scandals? Got it.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
― Upton Sinclair, I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked

 

[Jaybird1980]

That’s kinda what I am thinking too, it’s a big range of what’s “normal” My thoughts are that I lost a lot. 2019 I was running 10 mile road races and putting down 20-40 miles a week. 2020 I went out west hunting elk and averaged 18 miles a day in hiking with a 50 pound pack for 7 days at 10k feet.

today I can’t run 1/4 mile.

it’s anecdotal because I don’t have a prior PFT but I highly doubt I was on the low end of the range prior to covid.

I would highly suggest that anyone who hasn’t had covid or the vaccine go get a baseline PFT before you get the vaccine or covid.

Yeah, when I had my first PFT I was at 180% now I'm down to 30-40% so without the initial baseline they would think it's a much smaller loss.

My loss isn't Covid related, but just shows how the readings work

 

[actaeon277]

I’m 30 years old, army veteran. I eat right, take lots of vitamins, still lift 5 times a week but can’t run more than 1/4 mile without needing a break

Just like with covid it’s not the immediate side effects that concern me but the long term health repercussions.

had covid in October, I’ve had shortness of breath intermittently starting around January. Went for a PFT today and the results came back “within range” but -1 on z score. Docs can’t pinpoint the cause yet but prior to having covid I ran 3-8 miles daily. Now I can’t go up a set of stairs without needing a break.

I survived the initial covid and would likely survive the vaccine but at what long term health cost?

If I learned one thing from Uncle Sam it’s dont volunteer.

run 1/4th a mile?
Last time I tried that, I remembered "I HAVE A CAR".
So, that ended that.


As for Uncle Sam and "volunteer"...
NAVY

Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself

 

[nonobaddog]

Just to clarify, definitely will not has remained steady at ~15% since December. Much like the INGO poll, many initially unsure/wait and see end up getting it, and do not become "no way".

View attachment 137491

The "As soon as possible", "Only if required" and "Definitely not" categories are somewhat the same over that date range.
The chart makes it look like the "Wait and see" category is getting the shots and moving into the "Already gotten" category.
In reality I bet the "As soon as possible" is getting the shots while the "Wait and see" category is making up their minds and moving to "As soon as possible".

 

[jimC2]

Still unsure about getting the shots. Did research on internet for mutations and found that the effectiveness of the shots are yes, no and maybe for them. It depends on what strain you encounter and the strain that the shots were made from.

 

[mbills2223]

So big pharma harmed no one in the opiate scandals? Got it.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
― Upton Sinclair, I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked

Lmao I'll pretend you didn't call my integrity and intelligence into question.

You really think "big pharma" is the only culpable party in the opioid crisis?

 

[nonobaddog]

You really think "big pharma" is the only culpable party in the opioid crisis?

Not the only one but easily the biggest one!

 

[mbills2223]

Not the only one but easily the biggest one!

Prescribers get a free pass for over prescribing and not following medical guidelines? Pharmacists for filling without questioning? Wholesalers for not alerting authorities for inordinate quantities being ordered by terminal distributors? The US government for the failed "War on Drugs" that targeted street drugs while pushing people to opiates? Shareholders for requiring ever improving stock prices, no matter the cost? A capitalistic society for encouraging total market freedom? The court system for prioritizing punishment over rehabilitation? Society for stigmatizing drug addicts rather than trying to get them help?


A whole lot of factors...it's pretty ludicrous, especially amongst a group of people that so deeply value freedom and the free market, to lay so much responsibility at the hands of a company who marketed a product to make a profit.

 

[IndyBeerman]

So big pharma harmed no one in the opiate scandals? Got it.

I love how everyone mentions "Big Pharma" when Opiates are brought up.

But fail to even utter a bit about the patient who was abusing them and was constantly complaining to his or her doctor about the pain they was in and the prescriptions they kept writing to stop the patient from biotching.

You guys do realize this is the same tactic the left uses blaming gun manufactures for gun crimes.


Wake up peoples.

 

[mbills2223]

I love how everyone mentions "Big Pharma" when Opiates are brought up.

But fail to even utter a bit about the patient who was abusing them and was constantly complaining to his or her doctor about the pain they was in and the prescriptions they kept writing to stop the patient from biotching.

You guys do realize this is the same tactic the left uses blaming gun manufactures for gun crimes.


Wake up peoples.

Precisely.

 

[nonobaddog]

Like I said - big pharma is not the only culpable party.
Just like Columbia, Bolivia and Peru are not the only culpable parties in cocaine traffic - just the biggest ones.

 

[mbills2223]

Like I said - big pharma is not the only culpable party.
Just like Columbia, Bolivia and Peru are not the only culpable parties in cocaine traffic - just the biggest ones.

That's what I take issue with. I don't see them as the biggest factor, and I think it's impossible to pinpoint one main factor.

They are just the ones that had the biggest and most highly publicized lawsuit. They are also the easiest scapegoat.

 

[nonobaddog]

That's what I take issue with. I don't see them as the biggest factor, and I think it's impossible to pinpoint one main factor.

They are just the ones that had the biggest and most highly publicized lawsuit. They are also the easiest scapegoat.

Follow the money...

https://www.peoplesworld.org/articl...s-are-the-drug-kingpins-of-the-opioid-crisis/

DEA tracking data shows some 76 billion opioid pills flooded the country between 2006-2012. Six large companies distributed 75% of those pills, including Walmart, CVS, and Walgreens, and just three companies manufacture 88% of opioids.

In their obsession for profits, pharmaceutical manufacturers deliberately ignored suspicious patterns of massive orders by pharmacies, who acted like “street-level drug couriers.” Instead, manufacturers put their stamp of approval on the orders. Hundreds of millions of pills found their way to the black market while overdose deaths skyrocketed.

One sales agent described his job as to “ship, ship, ship.”

Purdue knew about the dangers of addiction from OxyContin before they began marketing the drug. They pled guilty to conducting a fraudulent marketing campaign to cover this up and paid a $635 million fine in 2007. But the gold rush was on.

Throughout the entire process, the DEA gave the okay for increased production. According to Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., “Between 1993 and 2015, the DEA allowed the production of oxycodone to increase 39-fold, hydrocodone to increase 12-fold, hydromorphone to increase 23-fold, and fentanyl to increase 25-fold.”

Even as the crisis grew in 2012, the drug manufacturers were shipping more pills with stronger dosages. In the pre-trial hearings taking place in Ohio, among the unsealed documents the pharmaceutical companies and FDA fought to keep hidden, are internal emails that joke about money rolling in from opioid shipments.

“Keep ‘em comin’!” a salesman exclaimed. “Flyin’ out of there. It’s like people are addicted to these things or something. Oh, wait, people are. . .”

They show a clear pattern of unexplained and massive amounts of oxycodone trafficked through a few pharmacies. In 2008, the FDA tried to pressure generic manufacturers to reduce their production in response to clear evidence of an epidemic. The companies refused to stop the gravy train.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Prescribers get a free pass for over prescribing and not following medical guidelines?

I broke my ankle/leg and had to have surgery, I used to joke that the Dr. had to own stock in a rehab. He wrote me a script for 80 vicodin ES, and told me if those aren't strong enough just let me know I'll write you something stronger. He wanted me to check in with him after a couple of days, then weekly, every time I called he asked if I was still okay with the pain meds, should he call in another script? I'd tell him no, I'm good. He'd ask if I was sure, it wouldn't be a problem to call in another one.

 

[nonobaddog]

I broke my ankle/leg and had to have surgery, I used to joke that the Dr. had to own stock in a rehab. He wrote me a script for 80 vicodin ES, and told me if those aren't strong enough just let me know I'll write you something stronger. He wanted me to check in with him after a couple of days, then weekly, every time I called he asked if I was still okay with the pain meds, should he call in another script? I'd tell him no, I'm good. He'd ask if I was sure, it wouldn't be a problem to call in another one.

Yes, the prescribers are paid very well by big pharma to write those scripts. Of course that does not excuse them. They are part of the problem and big pharma is encouraging that part of the problem too. They pay the doctors and pay for massive advertising and propaganda to minimize the damage caused and make the opiates more attractive to all.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yes, the prescribers are paid very well by big pharma to write those scripts. Of course that does not excuse them. They are part of the problem and big pharma is encouraging that part of the problem too. They pay the doctors and pay for massive advertising and propaganda to minimize the damage caused and make the opiates more attractive to all.

I doubt the Dr. was getting paid much if anything for writing a cheap generic. And even when it was allowed, they didn't get paid in cash that I know of. They got paid trips for "informational meetings" or something like that. Or dinners paid by the reps. Etc.

Per a Dr. on here, the fed govt had just as much of a hand in it as anybody. Medicaid/care pay schedules were partially based on patient satisfaction surveys, Dr. didn't write scripts the surveys went down along with their pay. That also includes things like antibiotics and/or tests that weren't necessary.

 

[nonobaddog]

I'm just posting what I think and what I have read - not trying to change anybody's mind or anything.
========================
Manufacturers bribed doctors

To expand sales, pharmaceutical companies bribed doctors to increase prescriptions. They did so by paying doctors for meals, speaking fees, consulting fees, honoraria. The more these doctors prescribed, the more pharmaceutical companies paid them.

According to one Harvard study, “In 2014 and 2015, opioid manufacturers paid hundreds of doctors across the country six-figure sums for speaking, consulting, and other services. Thousands of other doctors were paid over $25,000 during that time.”

In California, 3% of doctors supplied 62% of pills.

In May, John Kapoor, CEO of Insys Therapeutics, was found guilty of racketeering in a nationwide scheme to bribe doctors to prescribe its opioid product, Subsys. The doctors were identified from past patterns of liberally prescribing opioids even if the patient didn’t need them. They then lied to insurance companies to get them to cover the costs.

 

[mbills2223]

Follow the money...

https://www.peoplesworld.org/articl...s-are-the-drug-kingpins-of-the-opioid-crisis/

So the rest were just following orders? That's not an acceptable defense. Any HCP worth anything knows from day one that all opiates have addiction and abuse potential.

I can also assure you from working in healthcare that "big pharma" is far from the only financial beneficiary in the "game." Frankly, PBMs stand to profit as much as a pharmaceutical company from drugs being dispensed.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

The "As soon as possible", "Only if required" and "Definitely not" categories are somewhat the same over that date range.
The chart makes it look like the "Wait and see" category is getting the shots and moving into the "Already gotten" category.
In reality I bet the "As soon as possible" is getting the shots while the "Wait and see" category is making up their minds and moving to "As soon as possible".

I agree... and think we are saying the same thing just in different ways... the "wait and see" group is getting smaller, but the "no way" plus "only if required" is staying the same percentage +/- 2%.