What do you think about church?

[PaulF]

It is illogical to think that people in Hell love God and stop sinning.

Do you really think you will live forever?

Really?

To watch your children die, and theirs, and theirs, until all the children have died, and your god has fulfilled his plan?

To know all there is to know, until there is nothing new to learn? No one new to meet? To have seen all there is ever to be seen. There are no conversations...you already know everything. There is no surprise, no anticipation, no curiosity...

...and eternity still awaits.

Our life is nothing. Nothing...without the death that inevitably follows. These few years of improbable brilliance are meaningful and beautiful because they are finite. To remove that is to remove what makes the human experience remarkable.

I can think of no worse fate than to live forever.

 

[rambone]

Do you really think you will live forever?

Really?

Yes.

To watch your children die, and theirs, and theirs, until all the children have died, and your god has fulfilled his plan?

This is not from the Christian religion. The bible does not teach us about bleacher seats in Heaven, watching people die on earth.

To know all there is to know, until there is nothing new to learn? No one new to meet? To have seen all there is ever to be seen. There are no conversations...you already know everything. There is no surprise, no anticipation, no curiosity...

Again, not Christian. We are not going to be come gods after death. There is going to be plenty to learn, and an infinite universe to explore.

Our life is nothing. Nothing...without the death that inevitably follows. These few years of improbable brilliance are meaningful and beautiful because they are finite. To remove that is to remove what makes the human experience remarkable.

If we are soulless, and our lives are accidental, then our lives are nothing even with the death that inevitably follows. Nothing matters. How could it? Any finite meaning assigned to any finite thing will perish all the same. No "good" deed carries any weight, and neither does any "evil" pursuit; those words lose all meaning. If we are just talking animals, then no human life has any more significance than a stray dog, or an ant, or an amoeba.

 

[PaulF]

If we are soulless, and our lives are accidental, then our lives are nothing even with the death that inevitably follows. Nothing matters. How could it? Any finite meaning assigned to any finite thing will perish all the same. No "good" deed carries any weight, and neither does any "evil" pursuit; those words lose all meaning. If we are just talking animals, then no human life has any more significance than a stray dog, or an ant, or an amoeba.

Let's engage in a simple thought exercise:

EX) Your god doesn't exist...it's just as made up as all the others over the years.

You are literally saying that none of your own life means anything? Nothing?

The journey itself is worth nothing to you?

That breaks my heart, man.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Let's engage in a simple thought exercise:

EX) God does exist. The Bible is 100% true.

You are literally saying that God's beautiful plan for your life means nothing? Nothing?

The grace and mercy and love of Christ is nothing to you and you're choosing eternal damnation?

That breaks my heart, man.

Edited

 

[PaulF]

Edited

Everybody on this planet thinks everybody else is wrong about god...

 

[JettaKnight]

Do you really think you will live forever?

Really?

To watch your children die, and theirs, and theirs, until all the children have died, and your god has fulfilled his plan?

To know all there is to know, until there is nothing new to learn? No one new to meet? To have seen all there is ever to be seen. There are no conversations...you already know everything. There is no surprise, no anticipation, no curiosity...

...and eternity still awaits.

Our life is nothing. Nothing...without the death that inevitably follows. These few years of improbable brilliance are meaningful and beautiful because they are finite. To remove that is to remove what makes the human experience remarkable.

I can think of no worse fate than to live forever.

To die forever.

Not be dead forever, but to die forever.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Everybody on this planet thinks everybody else is wrong about god...

Hey we agree!

 

[PaulF]

To die forever.

Not be dead forever, but to die forever.

Live forever, die forever...the result is the same: hell, not heaven...if you actually stop and think through the reality of forever.

 

[Denny347]

It might seem more comfortable to believe that we are soulless and nothing we do has any lasting consequences, but that's another religion.

That's like saying NOT playing football is also a sport.

 

[Denny347]

Let's engage in a simple thought exercise:

EX) Your god doesn't exist...it's just as made up as all the others over the years.

You are literally saying that none of your own life means anything? Nothing?

The journey itself is worth nothing to you?

That breaks my heart, man.

Indeed. Life is wonderful and knowing that we only have one life to live makes what we do now so special.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I fear that this thread has run it's course and we're bickering. If we need to lock it and move on, then so be it. I'd rather keep our relationships maintained.

 

[Denny347]

I fear that this thread has run it's course and we're bickering. If we need to lock it and move on, then so be it. I'd rather keep our relationships maintained.

I don't see any damaging conversations. I see no anger in any of these posts, there is no reason for it.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I don't see any damaging conversations. I see no anger in any of these posts, there is no reason for it.

It's gotten way of course from my original intentions. There are already threads open for this debate.

 

[rambone]

Let's engage in a simple thought exercise:

EX) Your god doesn't exist...it's just as made up as all the others over the years.

You are literally saying that none of your own life means anything? Nothing?

The journey itself is worth nothing to you?

That breaks my heart, man.

I have thought about it extensively. I'm pretty sure I could come up with enough motivation to keep on pursuing my next pleasure activity: eating, traveling, women, making money, family BBQs, whatever. There is plenty of fun stuff to do in the world.

But my internal rationalization -- my meaning of life -- would not make my life meaningful. My whole life, all my actions, all my dreams, all my greatest accomplishments will be VERY quickly forgotten. They will be obliterated from the world, as if they never existed. How many people can even name the ancestors on their own family tree more than a few generations? Very few.

Now look at the grander scale: The world has forgotten that entire civilizations ever existed.

How meaningful is my existence? Equal to a stray dog, searching for his next meal.


Disclaimer: None of this is a compelling reason to believe in God, simply the logical conclusion of life with no God.

 

[tmiaz]

Touchy subject here. My wife grew up going to church. I didn't. Still not 100% on my beliefs but I do feel that I don't have to go to church to be a good man. I feel as though I'd almost have to fake it to an extent. I wouldn't mind exposing it to my children though before someone else has the opportunity to influence their belief system. I know I don't want anyone pushing me to go. It will never happen that way. So.....undecided here.

 

[churchmouse]

It's gotten way of course from my original intentions. There are already threads open for this debate.

As with any thread on a topic this diverse it will wonder as points and opinions are expressed.

I do not see anger in here. Actually has been a fair discussion but I have not read every post.

The reasons we do or do not attend or believe in a structured house of worship are as many and as different as there are people with thoughts on the subject.

Carry on.

 

[Lucas156]

I think it's the culture of church nowadays that turns people off. I believe in God but as a man I don't want to sing about how I love Jesus and how I submit to him over and over again. I don't want to sing and hold hands. I'm not that type of person. Church nowadays is too touchy feely and girly. Maybe I've been to the wrong churches but to me that's not what worshipping God should be about. It should be about leading by example and questioning and studying the meaning of the bible-deep thought and reflection. Maybe most churches don't fit me because I'm more of an introverted person. It just seems shallow to me to sing these songs that seem so superficial. I feel like it is deeper than that and modern day churches barely scratch the surface. Too many churches are too impersonal. I guess i see God more in every day life than I identify with him in some building. Why isn't church more based around things like honor, duty, working as a team, having tangible goals, doing good things in the community, personal growth, etc. these are things that lift me up as a man. I go to church and it just seems like a social session for women and the pastor is just going through the motions. Not saying there is anything wrong with that its just not for me.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think it's the culture of church nowadays that turns people off. I believe in God but as a man I don't want to sing about how I love Jesus and how I submit to him over and over again. I don't want to sing and hold hands. I'm not that type of person. Church nowadays is too touchy feely and girly. Maybe I've been to the wrong churches but to me that's not what worshipping God should be about. It should be about leading by example and questioning and studying the meaning of the bible-deep thought and reflection. Maybe most churches don't fit me because I'm more of an introverted person. It just seems shallow to me to sing these songs that seem so superficial. I feel like it is deeper than that and modern day churches barely scratch the surface. Too many churches are too impersonal. I guess i see God more in every day life than I identify with him in some building. Why isn't church more based around things like honor, duty, working as a team, having tangible goals, doing good things in the community, personal growth, etc. these are things that lift me up as a man. I go to church and it just seems like a social session for women and the pastor is just going through the motions. Not saying there is anything wrong with that its just not for me.

I'm about as introverted as you can get. What few abilities I have for speaking in front of crowds or my limited interpersonal skills are those I've had to acquire to be productive at work and were, still are sometimes, a real chore. I kind of know what you mean about singing and shaking hands and that sort of stuff. I could never get up in front of the church and belt out some hymn -- nobody wants to see/hear that. But some of the hymns are to me quite moving -- spiritually. Some move me in the way by which they praise God and some in the way they cause me to reflect on my life and relationship with God.

As to what a church ought to be doing, at least in my opinion, doing good works in the community is a good thing and I think that is something they ought to encourage as well. One theory I have as to why some churches turn off some folks is that many have become indistinguishable from other forms of entertainment. They have become productions rather than food for your soul. I can go to a bar or festival or a concert and see music and light shows. Others have become corrupt by various influences including the fear of losing members and watering down their messages on how to live a Christ centered life in the modern world.

 

[Expat]

That is the good thing about different denominations and churches. I am not a very touchy feely guy. So I picked a denomination where there was very little of that. The hymns are more about the majesty and power of God, accompanied by a big pipe organ. Unfortunately they have been heading toward the whacko left for the last decade or so.

 

[foszoe]

Become Orthodox. Go thru the First week of Lent without eating at all on Monday or Tuesday, have one meal in the evening on Wednesday consisting of only boiled or raw vegetables and salt. Do the 500+ full prostrations from standing position stand through every service of 1.5 to 2 hours long. Then do the same the rest of Lent. You won't feel like you are in a touchy Feely group anymore....