Slavery in America

[Kutnupe14]

Who is refusing to say it exists? Racism clearly exists, how else could it be a white person's fault when a black person beats the **** out of an Asian? (Ok, I'm joking but the idiot from that article wasn't)

Blaming racism for the current issues within the black community in this country is a cop-out. Yes there have been struggles in the past but as I've said about CRT, what is the point in spending all of our energy attempting to convince people that the race issues we had in the 1920's in Mississippi have now spread all over the entire country and blacks don't have a chance is utter nonsense.

How the media and Hollywood have portrayed blacks since the 80's is very largely responsible for how the ignorant view all blacks in this country. There was a time when the dreams, goals and desires of most black families were little different than those of white people; Have a family, provide for that family and raise good hearted people who will contribute and do even better for their kids. Those are the blacks that I grew up with and that I served/worked with in the Army and as a LEO.

Who is responsible for the issues within the black community? I'll give you a hint, it isn't the conservative white people. The Democrat entitlement policies have succeeded in splitting up the family unit, rewarding single motherhood while the media, Hollywood and the music industry has done their damndest to convince everyone that all black males are thugs and all black females are welfare sucking baby factories. Some in the black community are guilty of embracing these as simply "black culture" when it isn't, at least it didn't used to be. Just like wearing a Confederate flag shirt, smoking meth and living in a trailer park isn't "white culture" but that's what an awful lot of people believe when they think of rural America. The squeaky wheels always get the grease and everything else basically gets ignored.

Human nature = watch a video of an ******* cop and all cops are ******* for awhile. Watch a news story about a young black male gangbanger shooting and killing a kid and all young black males are gangbangers and potential murderers for awhile. Some white dipshit with an AR15 goes on a pathetic rampage and kills people and all white male gun owners are potential mass shooters for awhile. People don't forget these things and as time goes on and people are constantly exposed to the negative side of everyone else pretty soon the only people we don't want to avoid are people who look, act, talk and dress like just like us. The idiots out there claiming this isn't the case are liars and hiding behind how "woke" they are.

None of that changes the fact that in this country, if you put some effort in to being a responsible, mature, productive adult you can find success. If you choose not to do those things and instead take the easy road and become sort sort of scumbag, you have no right to complain that your life isn't easy or to blame anyone but yourself. Success is out there for just about everyone but to find it you must make the right decisions.

And you believe that is no longer the case? How have you come to this conclusion?

 

[grillak]

If your beliefs, concerning the Black community, are accurate, then that's not a problem that will ever be able to be solved. I believe that belief is incorrect. My contention, is that the "community," you speak of, isn't confined solely to "Black," it's confined to American... and you stated earlier, that's exactly how you view yourself primarily... an American that happens to be Black. It that's truly how you view yourself, then social problems are American problems, and should be in the interest of everyone.

you are correct to a certain point. the problems in the black community can be fixed. it starts at home.

my responses on this subject has been directed as primarily black issues because of the OP. all races in this country have the same problems. our children are growing up praising thug culture while we, as parents, sit back and shake our heads but not correcting them. when our children push dope, we sit back and "tsk ,tsk", but accept the benifit of the money. those problems begin at home and will only be fixed at home. it has been the POC who have blamed other races for the problems that we face NOW and we know that blaming everyone else doesn't fix anything.

to sum it up...stupidity comes in all colors, ethnicities, and races.

 

[rhamersley]

OTAY!

wait...was that racist?

 

[KG1]

You shouldn't demand anything from anybody. How and when that someone acknowledges something, should be on their own terms.

Exactly. So do you take issue with those that demand such things of white people that I described? I don't see a widespread refusal to acknowledge that racism still doesn't exist in some form. I think the issue is the discrepancy in the severity of which it exists and the downplaying of how far we've come.

 

[Kutnupe14]

i think you misunderstood the "we" in my statement.

i'm speaking on the segment of the population that, in order to continue and escalate the degredation of of black people as a whole, they want to force their version of "black culture" on the rest of the world.

how often do you see blacks in the media and positions of power tell young black men to pull their pants up, learn something other than a victim mentality, or stop waiting for their rap career to take off? very rarely. all of the things i mentioned are pushed on us (all of us) as black culture.

and the specific "we" i speak of are those among of who say it's wrong to destroy our neighborhoods, disrespect ourselves, and neglect our families to everyone but the ones who need to hear it.

if "we" as parents don't actively teach our children, then "we" are propogating the problems in our hoods. if "we" stand by and let the pushers & pimps do what they will, then "we" encouraging it.

when "we" become the agent of change in our neighborhoods, then we can show the rest of the world what "black culture" is really about.

are you familiar with The Last Poets?

they had a poem in the early 70's that express exactly what is wrong within the black community. it is just as relevant then as it is now.

I grew up with none of the things you are speaking on. The bad things you're call "Black culture," isn't that at all. It's simply "bad culture," and no one is exempt from it. But you knew that because you specifically pointed out "all of the things i mentioned are pushed on us (all of us) as black culture." I appreciated that.
My problem, with how you framed your post, is that there seem as if you have the expectation that the "Black community," should address those issues because they are "Black issues." Well, unless there is a belief that Blackness includes some sort of genetic flaw that makes us prone to issues, then it's not a "Black issue," It's a community issue. Issues that communities all across the nation have, melanin content varying.

 

[jamil]

I'd be happy if they'd just teach "The Golden Rule" in school!

Sane response: Fact check true.
Woke response: The Golden Rule is a social construct created by white males to maintain social power over people of color and other historically marginalized people.

 

[jamil]

I don't know.

I do know it can't be solved by government, or blaming another race, or tearing down statues in an effort to forcibly remove anything offensive, or casting all of your life's problems at the feet of racism.

It can't be fixed by fighting, cancelling, calling people racist, or routing & looting.

It can't be fixed by white saviors, or by getting rid of the white devil.

It can't be fixed by throwing money at the problem, or elevating minorities to a position of power where they can step on whitey.



I'd say the answer is time, the last 20% takes 80% of the time. But to pretend it doesn't exist is probably the worst thing.

Of course, as a Christian, my answer is to model the love of Christ, but looking at the SBC, I'm disheartened... But that's for another thread.

I think the people participating in this thread have not shown that they're dismissing the existence of racism. They're dismissive of the utility of blaming white people today, the nation's founding, and all of Western values for what happened long ago. I think everyone here understands that there is still racism, and doesn't want there to be racism. There is still racial bias and stereotyping.

I think even to be in a position where racism can end I think we all need to agree on exactly what needs to end, and what is within human ability to end. Bias and stereotyping are programmed in. That's not gonna end even if a few people think they've figured out how to hack the program. Those derive from human nature.

I don't think society is in a good place to solve the real problems of racism right now. We were. But as CRT and wokeness have crept into the American thinking, it has taken us to a place where the real problems of race are coerced into the whims of ideologues. To get back to that place where real progress can be made we need an non-coerced consensus on exactly what is racism, and what attitudes about race need to change.

I think that consensus should revolve around the malevolent parts of racial attitudes. The part where people cause actual harm by their attitudes towards other races--or even their own race because of their perception of race--like grillak having his life threatened because they saw him as a racial traitor. And when I say malevolent parts, I don't mean merely offensive stuff like the made up concept micro-aggression. That's not actual harm. It's a construct invented by CRT-ists to equate offense with actual harm, to move sympathy towards tearing down society and rebuilding it into racial utopia.

 

[jamil]

Nobody knows, but it will endure at least as long as people refuse to acknowledge it exists. I also think you can blame why "wokeness" has fallen off the deep end. When people don't listen to rational talk, people scream irrational.

It's not that nobody knows. It's that they're asking the wrong questions. I was hoping that people would ask the question in response to my post, is inequity the problem that needs solved? That problem can't be solved by solving racism. Within CRT "inequity" means "disproportionate outcomes". Because racism isn't the only factor in disproportionate outcomes between racial groups, inequity can't be solved just by solving racism. If every white person suddenly no longer cared anything about race, inequity would still exist because of those other factors: attitudes about education, nuclear families, etcetera. But then if every white person no longer cared about race, CRT'ists would call them racists.

I think that the relevance of my question is a truism. If we don't acknowledge that inequality is not solvable by ending racism, we can't make progress on it. Because we'll be focused on race and not those other factors. What can be solved to some extent is equalizing opportunity as a function of race. Grillak is correct that white people can't fix the inequities. We can only work to end some opportunity disadvantages. Individuals need to solve the inequities.

 

[KG1]

I think the people participating in this thread have not shown that they're dismissing the existence of racism. They're dismissive of the utility of blaming white people today, the nation's founding, and all of Western values for what happened long ago. I think everyone here understands that there is still racism, and doesn't want there to be racism. There is still racial bias and stereotyping.

I think even to be in a position where racism can end I think we all need to agree on exactly what needs to end, and what is within human ability to end. Bias and stereotyping are programmed in. That's not gonna end even if a few people think they've figured out how to hack the program. Those derive from human nature.

I don't think society is in a good place to solve the real problems of racism right now. We were. But as CRT and wokeness have crept into the American thinking, it has taken us to a place where the real problems of race are coerced into the whims of ideologues. To get back to that place where real progress can be made we need an non-coerced consensus on exactly what is racism, and what attitudes about race need to change.

I think that consensus should revolve around the malevolent parts of racial attitudes. The part where people cause actual harm by their attitudes towards other races--or even their own race because of their perception of race--like grillak having his life threatened because they saw him as a racial traitor. And when I say malevolent parts, I don't mean merely offensive stuff like the made up concept micro-aggression. That's not actual harm. It's a construct invented by CRT-ists to equate offense with actual harm, to move sympathy towards tearing down society and rebuilding it into racial utopia.

Well said. There needs to be an end to looking for and establishing racism in everything. Take Bug's previous post for example where there was a case trying to be made that mathematics is racist. There are a number of other examples of that kind of nonsense and it's not very productive towards dealing with and moving forward to solving the more legit prevalent issues.

 

[jamil]

i think you misunderstood the "we" in my statement.

i'm speaking on the segment of the population that, in order to continue and escalate the degredation of of black people as a whole, they want to force their version of "black culture" on the rest of the world.

how often do you see blacks in the media and positions of power tell young black men to pull their pants up, learn something other than a victim mentality, or stop waiting for their rap career to take off? very rarely. all of the things i mentioned are pushed on us (all of us) as black culture.

and the specific "we" i speak of are those among of who say it's wrong to destroy our neighborhoods, disrespect ourselves, and neglect our families to everyone but the ones who need to hear it.

if "we" as parents don't actively teach our children, then "we" are propogating the problems in our hoods. if "we" stand by and let the pushers & pimps do what they will, then "we" encouraging it.

when "we" become the agent of change in our neighborhoods, then we can show the rest of the world what "black culture" is really about.

are you familiar with The Last Poets?

they had a poem in the early 70's that express exactly what is wrong within the black community. it is just as relevant then as it is now.

This is why nuclear families are so important. Without having both sets of parents, with their own emphasis on constantly molding their kids into good people, kids grow up as not so great adults. It perhaps takes a lifetime for a child to grow up and overcome bad parenting. And if there isn't that tag team parenting, statistically that child is disadvantaged. Not because of what happened in 1619, or Jim Crow laws decades ago, but what is happening in that family today.

I just checked the statistics, and the percent of Black children in single-parent homes have hovered around 65% over the past decade. Contrast that with white children. Only 25% are in single-parent homes. Bug probably doesn't like it that I'm saying this without citation, but I'll say it without doubt. A solid intact, functional family unit has a great effect on the future success of children. 65% of children don't come from broken homes because white people are all racists. Solving racism will solve a lot of real problems. But it won't solve that. In fact, the Antiracism of CRT will make it worse. Nuclear families are a bad thing in CRT.

 

[jamil]

You shouldn't demand anything from anybody. How and when that someone acknowledges something, should be on their own terms.

CRT-ists demand that White people acknowledge their privilege and admit their collective guilt for all historical injustices, and for the inequities past and present.

 

[Leadeye]

I grew up with none of the things you are speaking on. The bad things you're call "Black culture," isn't that at all. It's simply "bad culture," and no one is exempt from it. But you knew that because you specifically pointed out "all of the things i mentioned are pushed on us (all of us) as black culture." I appreciated that.
My problem, with how you framed your post, is that there seem as if you have the expectation that the "Black community," should address those issues because they are "Black issues." Well, unless there is a belief that Blackness includes some sort of genetic flaw that makes us prone to issues, then it's not a "Black issue," It's a community issue. Issues that communities all across the nation have, melanin content varying.

I'll agree with the bad culture comment. I run into many of the same attitudes in the GSF and it's about as tree toad white as it gets here. My issues with the drug dealer last year were always met with comments like, you don't use the land so I should be able to use it as I see fit. Spiced with poverty pity party comments it made no dent at all.

 

[grillak]

I grew up with none of the things you are speaking on. The bad things you're call "Black culture," isn't that at all. It's simply "bad culture," and no one is exempt from it. But you knew that because you specifically pointed out "all of the things i mentioned are pushed on us (all of us) as black culture." I appreciated that.
My problem, with how you framed your post, is that there seem as if you have the expectation that the "Black community," should address those issues because they are "Black issues." Well, unless there is a belief that Blackness includes some sort of genetic flaw that makes us prone to issues, then it's not a "Black issue," It's a community issue. Issues that communities all across the nation have, melanin content varying.

uhhh...that's exactly the same thing i have been saying from my 1st post through my lazt.

but because black people are the ones who yell the loudest about our treatment by this country, we should be the 1st to do something about it ourselves. i don't know where you grow up but i it see every where i've been.

i'm not saying that it is only the black community that cries about their lot in life. but it has only heen the black community that waits for someone else to fix their problem through social handouts. even when other races scream about inequality, it has been on behalf of the blacks.

are you saying you have never seen the problems i've identified? never seen a 20 something yr old, selling dope, living in grandmamma's house, waiting for their rap contract? never seen a pregnant 18 yr old black girl, with the father nowhere to be found? how about a 30 yr old that would rather smoke crack than be productive and a good example for his hood? sure every community suffers from the same problems to some degree but they are more prevalent in the hood.

it starts at home.

 

[grillak]

It's not that nobody knows. It's that they're asking the wrong questions. I was hoping that people would ask the question in response to my post, is inequity the problem that needs solved? That problem can't be solved by solving racism. Within CRT "inequity" means "disproportionate outcomes". Because racism isn't the only factor in disproportionate outcomes between racial groups, inequity can't be solved just by solving racism. If every white person suddenly no longer cared anything about race, inequity would still exist because of those other factors: attitudes about education, nuclear families, etcetera. But then if every white person no longer cared about race, CRT'ists would call them racists.

I think that the relevance of my question is a truism. If we don't acknowledge that inequality is not solvable by ending racism, we can't make progress on it. Because we'll be focused on race and not those other factors. What can be solved to some extent is equalizing opportunity as a function of race. Grillak is correct that white people can't fix the inequities. We can only work to end some opportunity disadvantages. Individuals need to solve the inequities.

well said sir.

but inequity and inqualitly are not the same. from what i've experienced inequity has been bred into us as you have stated. but in today's context it can be overcome by not waiting from the "free s**t" from someone else. in other words...we can build our own equity if we work for it. as long as we take advantage of oppurtunity.

inequality is on us as individuals. it is a state of mind, if you will. because you or noone else can make me unequal. as long as i recieve a light bill just like you, as long as i hunger for nourishment just like you, as long as i have the basic needs of life just like you.

both require self respect and self determination.

 

[KLB]

One of the big issues here is the desire for equity. Equity of opportunity is a good thing, and should be a goal for society. Equity of outcome is not a good thing. That is what has been pushed by so many of these progressives.

 

[jamil]

Well said. There needs to be an end to looking for and establishing racism in everything. Take Bug's previous post for example where there was a case trying to be made that mathematics is racist. There are a number of other examples of that kind of nonsense and it's not very productive towards dealing with and moving forward to solving the more legit prevalent issues.

This reminds me of an episode of the sitcom, Good Times, back in the 70s. They tackled a lot of racial issues. In one episode Michal had some issues with grades or something like that, because the exams were geared towards white culture. And there was some truth to that. How disadvantaging that actually was, was embellished. But overall, I think it was along the same vein as the case being made that mathematics is racist.

One of the problems they exampled was something like a rate/distance story problem. I don't remember exactly, but it was along the lines that it was unfair to Black students because of the cultural relevance of the objects used in the story. Well, it doesn't matter how culturally relevant a story problem is if you know how to solve rate/distance problems. In the 70s we had a lot of story problems that must have been concocted in the 40s and were no where near culturally relevant to me. The cultural relevance of the objects in story problems have nothing to do with knowing how to do the problem.

But now it's worse. It's progressed to simply, math is racist.

 

[jamil]

One of the big issues here is the desire for equity. Equity of opportunity is a good thing, and should be a goal for society. Equity of outcome is not a good thing. That is what has been pushed by so many of these progressives.

Not that I want to use their words, but "equity" means equal outcome across racial groups, "equality" means equal opportunity across racial groups. In CRT/wokeness, equality is not enough. Equity is the holy grail.

So they're kinda right that it should be possible to achieve equity if it is proportional outcomes. But it's not going to be achieved through ending racism because racism is only one factor among many that determines the proportionality. All factors need solved to bring statistics into proportionality. I think one factor, kids with single parents, needs to get a lot closer to 25% for there to be any hope of proportional outcomes. And that's a fundamental flaw in CRT, if the outcomes aren't the same, racism is the cause.

 

[grillak]

This reminds me of an episode of the sitcom, Good Times, back in the 70s. They tackled a lot of racial issues. In one episode Michal had some issues with grades or something like that, because the exams were geared towards white culture. And there was some truth to that. How disadvantaging that actually was, was embellished. But overall, I think it was along the same vein as the case being made that mathematics is racist.

One of the problems they exampled was something like a rate/distance story problem. I don't remember exactly, but it was along the lines that it was unfair to Black students because of the cultural relevance of the objects used in the story. Well, it doesn't matter how culturally relevant a story problem is if you know how to solve rate/distance problems. In the 70s we had a lot of story problems that must have been concocted in the 40s and were no where near culturally relevant to me. The cultural relevance of the objects in story problems have nothing to do with knowing how to do the problem.

But now it's worse. It's progressed to simply, math is racist.

right!

2+2 = 4 no matter what color ink you write with.

throughout high school i was accused of cheating. i was in advanced mathematics from 6th grade on. math always was natural to me. theoretical algebra, calculus, trig...loved it all. some of my teachers were supportive but amazed that a black kid from the "northern community" could be capable of understanding anything on that level. some were outright hostile to me. they refused to believe that i could comprehend math on that level. they would make me take different tests and quizzes than the rest of the class to try and prove i was cheating. i would have to sit in the hall during tests to prove i wasn't copying test answers.

ahhh....fun times

 

[jamil]

And you believe that is no longer the case? How have you come to this conclusion?

Can you be more specific about what "that" is? There are too many "thats" to know which one you're referring to.

 

[Kutnupe14]

CRT-ists demand that White people acknowledge their privilege and admit their collective guilt for all historical injustices, and for the inequities past and present.

No, extrapolating what you thing CRT-ists are, and assigning a belief system to them. I won’t say there aren’t people like that, because that would be false, but you’re generalizing people who don’t believe such.