Is PCC the way to go?

[cedartop]

Another point to this, a PCC doesn't have to be a longer gun. Personally, I have 2 Sig MPX's. A 4
5" barrel SBR and a 8" pistol. I could give either to my wife, with a suppressor attached, and she will be fine with it. Low recoil, low noise. It's about perfect for her.

If you are throwing suppressors into the mix that is a whole different story. Hardly something a first time gun owner is going to have.

 

[2A_Tom]

I have been shooting for a little while and my arsenal consists of a 1911A1 pistol, a Marlin Camp 45, and a Maverick shotgun.

If I cannot hit it with one of them, I have a .308 BLR for longer shots, but never expect a shot that far out.

Like SGM Plumley said, "If the time comes I need one (M 16) there will be plenty laying on the ground." (AR 15"s in my case)

 

[Ggreen]

If you are throwing suppressors into the mix that is a whole different story. Hardly something a first time gun owner is going to have.

Times are changing. I've helped 2 new gun owners through suppressor paperwork. more and more instructors use them so people get exposed pretty early on. The kiosk also seems to attract new gun owners. They really should be a part of every discussion with a person looking to get a pdw. Even the cheap Witt cans make a huge difference

 

[ECS686]

Times are changing. I've helped 2 new gun owners through suppressor paperwork. more and more instructors use them so people get exposed pretty early on. The kiosk also seems to attract new gun owners. They really should be a part of every discussion with a person looking to get a pdw. Even the cheap Witt cans make a huge difference

Respectfully, While individuals may vary. A lot of gun owners that are enthusiasts get way too deep way too early with new shooters. You really have to let them get their feet wet before you try to convince them to buy the extras you are into. Then you have to back it up as to why its such a great thing that's needed Esoecially if their needs are just a basic one

 

[dudley0]

There is 800-1000 FPS difference between an 8" 9mm vs 223 in favor of the 223. A flash can or suppressor makes them pretty tame. In the 100 yards and under rapid response category I have really grown to like the 7.5 223. I've got a 12" gas operated 45acp ar sbr with a can. Having little kids in the house I want to keep their hearing protected.

The 7.5 ar has really grown in me after training with simunition around the house... It's a mess and i have to run the essential oil diffusers for a while before my wife gets home lol.

Question about the 7.5 with can. Does the can tame it enough for inside use? I know that the round is still burning when it leaves that short of a barrel and will most likely eat up the internals on the can, but if it doesn't pop ear drums I might play around with it some.

I have an SBR, 10.5" with a can for HD duty. Hearing safe outside, stings a little inside tho.

 

[VERT]

If you are throwing suppressors into the mix that is a whole different story. Hardly something a first time gun owner is going to have.

Agreed. Most new gun owners get hung up on price. I have found there are price walls in retail at about $200, $400, $800, $1000-$1200. In 2020 times are changing a bit. First time gun owners are 1) willing to spend more money 2) willing to buy accessories and 3) are better informed/researched before entering the store. The kiosk does attract attention, there are questions, but the wait times don’t make suppressors practical for most buyers. If time and money were not an issue an 8” MPX with a can would be a great choice, but I would consider it an enthusiasts weapon.

Right now we don’t exactly have a lot of choices as far as what is available to buy. So putting the original question back into perspective. Is the PCC a good choice for new shooters? I personally think it is an option. But the more affordable options may be heavier and actually have more recoil then a comparable AR in .223. One the positive, The PCC with longer barrel and real stock will have less noise and muzzle flash and will be easier to shoot them a handgun. The PCC shares ammo with the handgun and can be used for local gun games and allowed on more ranges.

I have seen Sig MPX come up at least 3 times in this thread. The MPX removes the weight and recoil issues and is in my opinion the best choice. CZ makes a great option as well. But those are both north of $1000 and probably out of many peoples budgets. Although 2020.....it is a different group of people buying guns right now.

 

[KJQ6945]

I ask because of all the possibilities out there this one may not jump out at the primary answer. There are many options with many advantages and disadvantages with each, If you have a short amount of time to equip and then arm this person and you want to get it right what is the best option. Perhaps they are female, someone like my wife who can shoot but does not like to but we may need her as backup or to hold a position. Perhaps it is male like a friend of mine, who spawned this mess in my head, who is former military and a hunter but has zero pistol skills, and many of his hunting rifles and shotguns are not well suited to the task of home defense.

So in considering all of this I pose the question is PCC being over-looked?

I am in the process of trying to arrive at an answer. There might not be a single answer that fits every person or situation.

Agreed. Most new gun owners get hung up on price. I have found there are price walls in retail at about $200, $400, $800, $1000-$1200. In 2020 times are changing a bit. First time gun owners are 1) willing to spend more money 2) willing to buy accessories and 3) are better informed/researched before entering the store. The kiosk does attract attention, there are questions, but the wait times don’t make suppressors practical for most buyers. If time and money were not an issue an 8” MPX with a can would be a great choice, but I would consider it an enthusiasts weapon.

Right now we don’t exactly have a lot of choices as far as what is available to buy. So putting the original question back into perspective. Is the PCC a good choice for new shooters? I personally think it is an option. But the more affordable options may be heavier and actually have more recoil then a comparable AR in .223. One the positive, The PCC with longer barrel and real stock will have less noise and muzzle flash and will be easier to shoot them a handgun. The PCC shares ammo with the handgun and can be used for local gun games and allowed on more ranges.

I have seen Sig MPX come up at least 3 times in this thread. The MPX removes the weight and recoil issues and is in my opinion the best choice. CZ makes a great option as well. But those are both north of $1000 and probably out of many peoples budgets. Although 2020.....it is a different group of people buying guns right now.

Vert, you bring up some very valid points concerning the cost and as mentioned earlier, the suppressors. I guess I’m looking at Coach’s question a little different, and perhaps I’m wrong.

I took his question to mean, how do you outfit someone in your inner circle, not so much, what do I tell them to go buy.

 

[Ggreen]

I took his question to mean, how do you outfit someone in your inner circle, not so much, what do I tell them to go buy.

That's honestly answered with whatever the best gun is in stock lol. Anyone that has waited this far into the pandemic is getting the scraps, or paying a premium for the bits of good stuff on the shelf. I definitely wouldn't suggest a 9mm pcc right now, it's the hardest round to find. I can get my hands on 200rds of 223 without much work but 9mm is a joke. I've been teaching friends and family how to shoot using a glock 22 and the AR pistols and haven't had any trouble replenishing 40 and 223.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Question about the 7.5 with can. Does the can tame it enough for inside use? I know that the round is still burning when it leaves that short of a barrel and will most likely eat up the internals on the can, but if it doesn't pop ear drums I might play around with it some.

I have an SBR, 10.5" with a can for HD duty. Hearing safe outside, stings a little inside tho.

It'll tame it, yes. It will most definitely still not be hearing safe.

Even 5.56 out of a 16" suppressed barrel will still generally be around 140db. Some suppressors will be a bit less, some will be a bit more. That's still loud enough to do hearing damage.

The shorter the barrel - the louder it'll be.

 

[Ggreen]

Question about the 7.5 with can. Does the can tame it enough for inside use? I know that the round is still burning when it leaves that short of a barrel and will most likely eat up the internals on the can, but if it doesn't pop ear drums I might play around with it some.

I have an SBR, 10.5" with a can for HD duty. Hearing safe outside, stings a little inside tho.

It's not a perceiveable difference between my 7.5 and my 11.5 with a can from a shelter. The only hearing safe indoors I have is rimfire or anemic 45acp loads. I don't personally think there is much of a user difference between 7.5 and 11.5 with a can, with a brake yes that 4" closer to your face can get concussivy

 

[Ggreen]

Respectfully, While individuals may vary. A lot of gun owners that are enthusiasts get way too deep way too early with new shooters. You really have to let them get their feet wet before you try to convince them to buy the extras you are into. Then you have to back it up as to why its such a great thing that's needed Esoecially if their needs are just a basic one

Respectfully, there is nothing deep about suppressors other than the red tape. There is no way I would ever suggest a home defense rig without the intent of adding a can. I'm not seeing People starting out casually right now, especially not the people who reach out to me. I'm pretty open about guns and always have been. A friend of a friend sees a video with a suppressor and then they get sent to me. The first time gun buyers that I've helped aren't wanting to buy 1022 and pump shotguns, they want ar's and "shotguns like John wick". I don't see a training gap between starting with an AR and starting with a 1022 other than cost. I believe Anyone with a kid in the house owes it to the kid to have a suppressor on their HD carbine or pistol.



And I'm rarely the one selling * the suppressors, people want them and find out from friends and locals that I will let them shoot with my gear. They make their own choices.

 

[traderjoe]

The context of the initial post was interesting to me.

Recently I have had a number of individuals who currently do not own and have never owned any firearms ask me "What should I do, what should I get?"

These people are just starting to realize that they might have to protect themselves and their families.

I was hoping to find a way to answer their question.

For myself, I have made my decision and am going to have to live with it, however what is right for me might not be right for them.

I got some new ideas for myself. Lots of info here, but, I did not find an answer to the initial question asked.

Where and what do they start with?

A $4000 battle rifle with suppressor is not a starting point and is beyond most peoples means.

 

[2A_Tom]

Linky no workie.

 

[Ggreen]

A $4000 battle rifle with suppressor is not a starting point and is beyond most peoples means.

What is the mystique surrounding suppressors? I've got a few 200 dollar cans that are great for low volume direct thread cans. 400 dollars total is 1/10 the cost of a good hearing aid. Get into an indoor shoot situation and you'll wish you would have just spent the money. A good ar pistol can be built around 1k

Imho we should be able to buy suppressors with hsa cards lol

 

[Ggreen]

Linky no workie.

It's just underlined text

 

[2A_Tom]

It's just underlined text

So, it was not meant to make sense?

 

[Ggreen]

So, it was not meant to make sense?

The theme of 2020 it seems

 

[dudley0]

It's not a perceiveable difference between my 7.5 and my 11.5 with a can from a shelter. The only hearing safe indoors I have is rimfire or anemic 45acp loads. I don't personally think there is much of a user difference between 7.5 and 11.5 with a can, with a brake yes that 4" closer to your face can get concussivy

The only 7.5 I have shot was without a can. It almost hurt with plugs in.

Do you notice faster erosion of your internals? With the correct ammo (which is what?) in a 7.5" I am intrigued.

I also have a .300 BO with a Form 1 can on it. It is stupid quiet with subs. Just haven't run it enough with 110 grainers to declare it HD ready.

-Sorry Coach for the thread drift.

 

[2A_Tom]

Would the kinetic energy of subsonics at close range have the stopping power of at least a PCC?

 

[KJQ6945]

Would the kinetic energy of subsonics at close range have the stopping power of at least a PCC?

Ballistically, subsonic 300BO, is very similar to .45acp.