Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man

[CPT Nervous]

There's a whole number of reasons why a what from the outside historical view appears clear, isn't to those in the middle.

LEO are often given "advice" by onlookers, e.g. "He didn't do nothing!", "Stop hurting him!", "Let him go!" I gotta imagine that you get to the point where you tune that out.

There's three other officers, so you probably have a crowd influence (forget the name of the bias): Jim is thinking, "Well, Joe isn't concern so I won't be." But at the same time Joe is thinking, "Well Jim hasn't said anything, so it must be all good."

Is there video leading up to this? How did the suspect act? What sort of mindset were the officers in?

That is definitely true. Also, nearly everyone I have had to use force on in recent history has bellowed, "I CAN'T BREATHE" at the top of their lungs for several minutes after they've been detained. I have never held a suspect prone on the ground for longer than it took to get control. People just really like to say that they can't breathe. And you're absolutely right about bystanders, who did not see or know why the suspect is being arrested, but feel like they have to chime in anyway.

Knee on the neck? I don't know about that. I have held my knee on a suspect's back, but not the neck. Sometimes the head if I need to, but again, once they're under control, there's no reason to keep them on the ground like that. If they're compliant enough, we sit or stand them up, and go where we need to go.

I wouldn't call it murder. I'm sure the officer had no intention for Floyd to die. He probably didn't even consider that a possibility. Negligence, sure, but not murder.

 

[CindyE]

So this air is like stored in a reserve lung for emergencies?

I dunno, but I remember hyperventilating and still being able to gasp out, "I can't breathe!"

 

[HoughMade]

Also, there's more than one way to die from a knee on the neck.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Unfortunately incidents like this are to the police community as incidents where some dumbass has left their gun on the table within reach of their kid (that hasn't been taught about guns and safety), who then kills him/her self or a sibling, is to the gun community.

Just saying that these high publicity, emotionally charged incidents do a lot of harm to the image of police everywhere (wrongly) just as people doing stupid **** with guns and little kids dying because of it (again, high publicity, emotionally charged) does a lot of harm to the gun owning community. Neither situation is representative of either group, but they give the SJW's and anti-gunners ammo for their disinformation campaigns.

The us vs. them mentality is far from limited to just one group you mention. It isn’t a super great look that you single out the folks that have a dead guy as the group that’s the problem here.

In my opinion, the “saddest part of this” has much more to do with the guy dying.

Was the saddest part of Randy Weaver’s baby having its mom shot out from under it that gun owners didn’t trust federal agents much anymore?

See my previous two posts on the subject. That's kind of my take on how it contributes to the "us vs. them" mentality.

 

[qwerty]

I dunno, but I remember hyperventilating and still being able to gasp out, "I can't breathe!"

Hyperventilation is overbreathing. Let us know if you survived. Can't do purple over tapatalk.....

 

[Hatin Since 87]

The us vs. them mentality is far from limited to just one group you mention. It isn’t a super great look that you single out the folks that have a dead guy as the group that’s the problem here.

In my opinion, the “saddest part of this” has much more to do with the guy dying.

I’m not sure how I singled out folks that have a dead guy as being the problem? If you gathered that because I said the black community will blame the white community and police of racism then I guess you misinterpreted the entire point of the post. That is what is happening. That’s not saying they’re the problem.

I was saying the problem is everyone choosing sides and being divided and siding with a group, instead of uniting together to discuss a solution to prevent these things from happening over and over.

 

[qwerty]

That is definitely true. Also, nearly everyone I have had to use force on in recent history has bellowed, "I CAN'T BREATHE" at the top of their lungs for several minutes after they've been detained. I have never held a suspect prone on the ground for longer than it took to get control. People just really like to say that they can't breathe. And you're absolutely right about bystanders, who did not see or know why the suspect is being arrested, but feel like they have to chime in anyway.

Knee on the neck? I don't know about that. I have held my knee on a suspect's back, but not the neck. Sometimes the head if I need to, but again, once they're under control, there's no reason to keep them on the ground like that. If they're compliant enough, we sit or stand them up, and go where we need to go.

I wouldn't call it murder. I'm sure the officer had no intention for Floyd to die. He probably didn't even consider that a possibility. Negligence, sure, but not murder.

This 100%.

I am trying to figure out what the heck they were waiting for. We were talking at work about this. Generally you would get this guy up as quick as safely possible and out there. It diffuses the situation and gets you finishing the horrible amounts of paperwork that are forthcoming.

 

[Fargo]

I’m not sure how I singled out folks that have a dead guy as being the problem? If you gathered that because I said the black community will blame the white community and police of racism then I guess you misinterpreted the entire point of the post. That is what is happening. That’s not saying they’re the problem.

I was saying the problem is everyone choosing sides and being divided and siding with a group, instead of uniting together to discuss a solution to prevent these things from happening over and over.

Well, I guess the first sentence of your posts detailing the “saddest part”, with its specific take on how the black community will accuse whites and cops of racism is where I got that notion from.

If I am mistaken about that, I stand corrected. I still find it incredibly problematic that the focus is on how this will cause distrust of whites and cops, versus the guys death.


What was the saddest part of Randy Weaver’s baby having its mom shot out from under it? Was that gun owners didn’t trust federal agents much anymore and started calling them JBT’s?

 

[Sigblitz]

I'm generally a pretty cynical and hard person, but that 10 minute video? Very hard to watch. Very.

I just don't get it.

I know that accidents happen when a person is being subdued and that there is a fine line between necessary and excessive force...but this wasn't that.

I would be interested in the autopsy report. I really don't care what was in his system, but I would be interested in knowing whether he dies of asphyxiation, lack of brain perfusion, or some idiosyncratic cause. Regardless, they killed him.

Must spread rep around before giving it to Mr. Cynical again.

 

[bwframe]

Officers being hit by rocks and bottles.

Tear gas deployed.

Is this a protest or a riot?


[video=youtube;Z_t3hXXNItc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_t3hXXNItc[/video]

https://www.broadcastify.com/webPlayer/27929

https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/27929

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Well, I guess the first sentence of your posts detailing the “saddest part”, with its specific take on how the black community will accuse whites and cops of racism is where I got that notion from.

If I am mistaken about that, I stand corrected. I still find it incredibly problematic that the focus is on how this will cause distrust of whites and cops, versus the guys death.


What was the saddest part of Randy Weaver’s baby having its mom shot out from under it? Was that gun owners didn’t trust federal agents much anymore and started calling them JBT’s?

I don't think that's what he meant. I know that's not where I was coming from with my comments. I thought I was pretty clear in the OP that I thought it looked bad, but maybe I didn't articulate that it wasn't just for the optics. Of course it's sad that the man died (was killed IMHO at this point). But it is just frustrating that these things happen that do throw a wrench in any kind of progress that we (as a society) might be making to alleviate that whole "us vs. them" attitude.

 

[Fargo]

I don't think that's what he meant. I know that's not where I was coming from with my comments. I thought I was pretty clear in the OP that I thought it looked bad, but maybe I didn't articulate that it wasn't just for the optics. Of course it's sad that the man died (was killed IMHO at this point). But it is just frustrating that these things happen that do throw a wrench in any kind of progress that we (as a society) might be making to alleviate that whole "us vs. them" attitude.

I complete agree that it is terrible what these type of events due to society, however I believe that the focus should be on these events not happening, not upon the people they happen to becoming distrustful.

I am not trying to say or imply that anyone here is fine with what happened in anyway, I do not believe that to be the case. My point is that the saddest part of this is not that people become mistrustful, its that the guy was killed.

 

[Trigger Time]

Im not a cop but I have been trained to handcuff, flexcuff, and subdue bad guys. One of the first things we learned was not putting people on their chest too long and especially not with your body weight on them. Well unless you want them to die. That was ok sometimes for what we did, but they shouldn't have restraints on for that.

I just cannot believe this officer didnt have the proper training to know this fact. He had to have known. If i knew it, he knew it.
You ahould never leave someone prone for that long while restrained. Just like a choking victim or anyone who has suffered a medical emergency. You get them into the recovery position.

What miraculous works some lawyer will work to get the cop or cops out of this, who knows.
After talking to a friend who is a cop about this and receiving some knowledge, ill change my position on a murder charge.
I highly doubt he intended to kill him. But deffinately needs charged with manslaughter and hopefully convicted. And if there is a higher level of manslaughter i hope they get that one.

I'm a firm believer in rule of law and support the need for law enforcement. I've always believed that 99.8% of cops are good. Always.
But now living through the covid mania and seeing how many cops so quickly willingly became the thug force of certain politicians in so many U.S. cities, I'm not so sure anymore that the number is that high.that more wouldnt trample our rights in "emergencies" to make it home safe. When really that's just another cop out for most situations where no one is violent.
I really hope the police across this nation start changing perceptions.
If the people lose full trust in the police then none of us will want to see the fallout on our front porches. It will not be good for anyone.

Was this guy a pos? Maybe. But no one deserves to die in custody like that. Even as much as id love to see the cops start shooting child molesters and cop killers and rapists and gang bangers on the spot, that's not America or what the constitution stands for. Same as i wouldnt stand by and watch someone hurt or kill a cop. We have to change the perception. I dont know what that entails but we need to figure it out fast or we may start seeing cities burnt to the ground and everything we love taken.
This isn't a us vs them issue. This is an all of us issue.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I complete agree that it is terrible what these type of events due to society, however I believe that the focus should be on these events not happening, not upon the people they happen to becoming distrustful.

I am not trying to say or imply that anyone here is fine with what happened in anyway, I do not believe that to be the case. My point is that the saddest part of this is not that people become mistrustful, its that the guy was killed.

Understood, and agreed.

 

[Denny347]

I have no opinion about whether subduing him was necessary and even about getting him in that position.

I have plenty of opinions about what happened over the course of 6 or 7 minutes well after he was on the ground.

Exactly. I think that is where the focus of the investigation likely lies. I suspect that if the coroners report lists heart failure (or similar) as primary cause of death, with something the officer did as contributing, you will see more of a fight by the "former" officer's lawyers. However, if the coroner lists the cause of death as suffocation, Petechiae in the eyes, etc, then there will be nothing to hide behind for a defense, he is toast with a murder charge.

 

[Fargo]

Exactly. I think that is where the focus of the investigation likely lies. I suspect that if the coroners report lists heart failure (or similar) as primary cause of death, with something the officer did as contributing, you will see more of a fight by the "former" officer's lawyers. However, if the coroner lists the cause of death as suffocation, Petechiae in the eyes, etc, then there will be nothing to hide behind for a defense, he is toast with a murder charge.

My vague recollection from the Castile case is that Minnesota second-degree murder functions similarly to Indiana’s reckless homicide or involuntary manslaughter statute.

I halfway wonder if there don’t end up being pleas to state charges, in place of the feds filing. I seem to recall that happening with the officer that shot the guy running away down in Georgia?

 

[Route 45]

It's gonna be a long, hot summer regardless of the actual weather.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/ice-cube-reacts-death-george-floyd

 

[JettaKnight]

It's gonna be a long, hot summer regardless of the actual weather.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/ice-cube-reacts-death-george-floyd

You can take the gangster out of Compton, but you can't take...

 

[KittySlayer]

Thanks for the LEO input in this thread. It helps in understanding what may have happened.

He looks pretty passive throughout. Maybe out of it (high on something?), but not really fighting.

Gotta agree with you from the video and lacking all the facts.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Fox News has Mike Tobin (the guy who covers the riots) on the ground. He just interviewed a guy who caught a less than lethal 40mm in the chest.

When we turn on the news in the AM we'll see how much of the city burned down.