Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man

[BigRed]

Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man


This doesn't look good. Lots of stupid about this one.

https://www.wthr.com/article/four-minneapolis-officers-fired-after-death-black-man

Video at this link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapolis-police-george-floyd-fatal-arrest-officer-kneeling-neck/

Wow.... was this guy selling loose cigarettes?

 

[NKBJ]

So are there some LEO's here to comment on whether or not what was done to George Floyd is unusual?

Watching the press coverage.
Now I think the street organizers are at work.
Which is why I wanted to ask the question.

 

[historian]

Honestly, I'm starting to doubt that there are a "few bad apples." There seem to be an awful lot more than a few and QI seems to let them all off the hook. I doubt these guys will stayed fired long as their union will swoop in and then they will have more "training." I have to go with the assumption that if people act like this on film, what they do off of film is worse.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So are there some LEO's here to comment on whether or not what was done to George Floyd is unusual?

Unusual where? Policing and police culture is regional. I have no idea if it's unusual there. It would be very unusual here.

I doubt these guys will stayed fired long as their union will swoop in and then they will have more "training."

I think you're wrong and I suspect these guys acted well outside their training and protocols. Sometimes cops do things as they were trained and that training is outdated or just society has made what used to be ok not ok any longer. That's why there's qualified immunity. Somebody is the last guy to shoot a fleeing felon for being a fleeing felon when it's ok to but the court decides it's not any longer. Excited delirium and positional asphyxiation are not new to LE or LE training.

I have to question why another officer didn't attempt to get the kneeling officer to back off and roll the suspect over or sit him up. Heck make an attempt to do the right thing...even if you have to lean in and say 'bro ease up they are video taping you'.

You can only speculate. Maybe it's the culture there. Maybe some or all of the officers were focused on other tasks and didn't realize what was going on. See: Invisible Gorilla. There is generally a duty to intervene written into policy, though, it would be up to the officer to explain why he didn't.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm really sorry that this guy died but we don't know the full story and I always thought that if you could tell me you can't breath then how are you talking to me.

Mental note: If being (partially) choked, don't try to say "I can't breath", just gasp.

 

[Expat]

Mental note: If being (partially) choked, don't try to say "I can't breath", just gasp.

Play dead before you actually are dead....

 

[JettaKnight]

From my perspective there was failure to follow training. I have to question why another officer didn't attempt to get the kneeling officer to back off and roll the suspect over or sit him up. Heck make an attempt to do the right thing...even if you have to lean in and say 'bro ease up they are video taping you'. Even if he wasn't shutting off his own actions there appears to have been enough LE to get the guy to stand down and de escalate the situation. But nobody did that..even after the suspect clearly went limp. Again my perspective is knowing everyone has a video camera covering you partners six may require you to get someone else on scene to back off. In turn it may lessen the long term impact it may have on you and your career.

There's a whole number of reasons why a what from the outside historical view appears clear, isn't to those in the middle.

LEO are often given "advice" by onlookers, e.g. "He didn't do nothing!", "Stop hurting him!", "Let him go!" I gotta imagine that you get to the point where you tune that out.

There's three other officers, so you probably have a crowd influence (forget the name of the bias): Jim is thinking, "Well, Joe isn't concern so I won't be." But at the same time Joe is thinking, "Well Jim hasn't said anything, so it must be all good."

Is there video leading up to this? How did the suspect act? What sort of mindset were the officers in?


Where is the full video posted? Every news story talks about a seven minute video, but then only shows a short snippet. And trying to find it on YouTube just leads to a bunch of talking head amateurs trying to make a buck off it.

 

[Expat]

[video=youtube;sB2MiyATKFk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2MiyATKFk[/video]

 

[Expat]

[video=youtube;DIq1W2a1wPk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIq1W2a1wPk[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

He looks pretty passive throughout. Maybe out of it (high on something?), but not really fighting.

 

[Expat]

He definitely appears to be under the influence of something. When they drug him over to put him in the car, he looked like he was stumbling and then looks like collapsed.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm generally a pretty cynical and hard person, but that 10 minute video? Very hard to watch. Very.

I just don't get it.

I know that accidents happen when a person is being subdued and that there is a fine line between necessary and excessive force...but this wasn't that.

I would be interested in the autopsy report. I really don't care what was in his system, but I would be interested in knowing whether he dies of asphyxiation, lack of brain perfusion, or some idiosyncratic cause. Regardless, they killed him.

 

[Denny347]

So are there some LEO's here to comment on whether or not what was done to George Floyd is unusual?

Watching the press coverage.
Now I think the street organizers are at work.
Which is why I wanted to ask the question.

Ok, I'll bite. Unusual? In what way? I don't know what happened before the video started that resulted in the handcuffed guy going to the ground. So I cannot comment on the reasonableness of the officer INITIALLY going knee on head. However, once the situation had stabilized, the officer should have reassessed the need to stay in that position. Failing to do that is likely the fatal error. I'm interested in the coroners report. In a clinical sense, I find this situation interesting since this is what I teach.

 

[Denny347]

Honestly, I'm starting to doubt that there are a "few bad apples." There seem to be an awful lot more than a few and QI seems to let them all off the hook. I doubt these guys will stayed fired long as their union will swoop in and then they will have more "training." I have to go with the assumption that if people act like this on film, what they do off of film is worse.

I guess perception is reality.

 

[NKBJ]

I'm starting to question a lot of things about the incident (don't take offense, best word I have right now).
But I'm pretty sure the organizers are swarming.

 

[HoughMade]

I have no opinion about whether subduing him was necessary and even about getting him in that position.

I have plenty of opinions about what happened over the course of 6 or 7 minutes well after he was on the ground.

 

[stocknup]

I may give the Cop a pass while trying to handcuff a perp to gain control , but he was already cuffed up . There were 3 cops on him ( one at his feet , one at his back and the one on his neck ) No reason to stay perched on his neck for 7-8 minutes .
We all don`t know the prior timeline happenings , but nothing should warrant the abuse he was given . I saw a cop with his knee on the side of George Floyd`s neck ..............
Sounds very similar to the Eric Garner case ...........while being choked out , you can still get some words out , but you can still die .
All 4 cops should be prosecuted ...........Especially the one with his knee on him . He had no intentions of getting off of him and was prepared to mace anyone who would try to stop him .

 

[DoggyDaddy]

And Ben Crump is involved... again. Like a freaking vulture.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

The saddest part of this is it fuels more us vs them mentality... even though we pretty much all agree this was handled wrongly, the black community will blame the police and the white community of racism and violence towards blacks. Instead of being a tragedy that unites us all, blacks whites and good cops, to stand together and have discussions how to prevent these instances from occurring, it will be black vs white vs cop and yelling and screaming with no progress whatsoever.

Prayers for his family and for all the good LEO that will undoubtedly have to suffer from this.

 

[Fargo]

The saddest part of this is it fuels more us vs them mentality... even though we pretty much all agree this was handled wrongly, the black community will blame the police and the white community of racism and violence towards blacks. Instead of being a tragedy that unites us all, blacks whites and good cops, to stand together and have discussions how to prevent these instances from occurring, it will be black vs white vs cop and yelling and screaming with no progress whatsoever.

Prayers for his family and for all the good LEO that will undoubtedly have to suffer from this.

The us vs. them mentality is far from limited to just one group you mention. It isn’t a super great look that you single out the folks that have a dead guy as the group that’s the problem here.

In my opinion, the “saddest part of this” has much more to do with the guy dying.

Was the saddest part of Randy Weaver’s baby having its mom shot out from under it that gun owners didn’t trust federal agents much anymore?