Daylight Saving Time

[chipbennett]

I did not say they “liked” changing clocks, clearly the 17% were not bothered by the need to change clocks or they would have indicated it so. They are definitely learners…

You said exactly that:

The 38% is those not bothered enough to say they don’t like changing clocks. I said I don’t like changing clocks but it is preferable to not having more daylight in the evening.

Now, you can play semantics, and try to distinguish between "like" vs "don't like", but it's still irrelevant, because the survey didn't poll "like vs don't like changing clocks". It polled "want to stop changing clocks".

 

[AndreusMaximus]

But they have to go in the dark in spring and fall. And by the time winter gets here, some of them are having to go in the dark anyhow even on standard time. So where's the advantage again?

*Disclaimer: The opinions presented are an attempt to represent the beliefs of the pro-DST crowd. They do not reflect the views or opinions of the poster.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I want everyone to set their clocks forward 5 min every month for a year then se t them back 5 min every month for a year until people realize that changing clocks is stupid.

I can do better than that. Set them back at 10 p.m. every day, then set them forward at 10 a.m. every day. People like me will get our early sunrises, and people like Mike can play their midnight golf. See? Everyone's happy!

 

[chipbennett]

It makes my life better. That is all I need to support it.

Most folks, including me, do not want 9:30 am sunrises…

DST moves sunrise later, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[chipbennett]

But they have to go in the dark in spring and fall. And by the time winter gets here, some of them are having to go in the dark anyhow even on standard time. So where's the advantage again?

Again, I don't understand the "kids go to school in the dark" argument in favor of DST, given that DST moves sunrise later in the day.

 

[Ingomike]

The 38% is those not bothered enough to say they don’t want to stop changing clocks. I said I don’t like changing clocks but it is preferable to not having more daylight in the evening.

You said exactly that:

Now, you can play semantics, and try to distinguish between "like" vs "don't like", but it's still irrelevant, because the survey didn't poll "like vs don't like changing clocks". It polled "want to stop changing clocks".

I have no corrected the semantics but the point remains…

 

[Ingomike]

DST moves sunrise later, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

That is why the fall back occurs so there are not 9:30 sunrises in December and January…

 

[chipbennett]

I have no corrected the semantics but the point remains…

Except, the point is still invalid:

The 38% is those not bothered enough to say they don’t want to stop changing clocks.

I already pointed this out. Of those 38%:

21% explicitly want to keep changing clocks. They are not indifferent in their preference.
17% are unsure of whether or not they want to stop changing clocks.

There is absolutely nothing in the survey to indicate whether respondents are "bothered" by one course of action or another. There is absolutely nothing in the survey to indicate any particular motive or degree of passion/resolve in their view about ending the practice of changing clocks.

 

[Ingomike]

Except, the point is still invalid:

I already pointed this out. Of those 38%:

21% explicitly want to keep changing clocks. They are not indifferent in their preference.
17% are unsure of whether or not they want to stop changing clocks.

There is absolutely nothing in the survey to indicate whether respondents are "bothered" by one course of action or another. There is absolutely nothing in the survey to indicate any particular motive or degree of passion/resolve in their view about ending the practice of changing clocks.

Are you in the least unsure of your opinions on this topic? You are actually bothered by this time change, it comes through in your posts, but the 17% are not bothered about changing clocks enough to even say so, even given two other options…

 

[chipbennett]

That is why the fall back occurs so there are not 9:30 sunrises in December and January…

DST is a change from the norm. You are treating DST like it is the default, and that Standard Time is the change. DST is called "Summer Time" for a reason: because it is intended to shift daylight during the summer.

You are also making an argument from an extreme edge case, as we are here in Indiana, on the extreme western edge of a time zone. You seem to be arguing more that Indiana should be in the Central, rather than Eastern, time zone.

 

[chipbennett]

Are you in the least unsure of your opinions on this topic? You are actually bothered by this time change, it comes through in your posts, but the 17% are not bothered about changing clocks enough to even say so, even given two other options…

My opinions are not at discussion here, so my confidence in my opinions is irrelevant. We're discussing a survey that polled respondents on their stance on the question of whether the practice of changing clocks should be ended. Again, the survey does not inform on "bothered". You have no way of knowing whether anyone in the 17% "unsure" is "bothered" by changing clocks or not, based on the questions asked in the survey.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Are we really concerned with 17% enough to spend 3 pages on it? 17% isn’t a high enough percentage to even care about…

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Are we really concerned with 17% enough to spend 3 pages on it? 17% isn’t a high enough percentage to even care about…

But its...

 

[Mij]

Are we really concerned with 17% enough to spend 3 pages on it? 17% isn’t a high enough percentage to even care about…

Well…..you are correct in my opinion.


But, the thread is over a decade old annnd 225 pages total. And it’s still arguing the same points made in the first 3 posts.

 

[snapping turtle]

sexagesimal number system.
Invented by Babylonians in 3500 bc.
Based on the number 60 thus time angles and latitude and longitude in mapping derives from this ancient system of counting.

If I remember my high school history teacher correct (she would be considered politically incorrect today) she said it had to do with the bones of the fingers and you could count to 60 easy on your hands not just 10.

Mathematically 12 is divisible by 2 3 4 6 and 12 itself but 10 has only 3 divisors. 60 has 12 divisors including 10
And 12. 12 and 60 have more divisors than any number lower than them.

So if we are going to change things up I demand )seems like making demands is popular lately) that we make time based off 10 and 100 instead of 12 and 60. Keep it the same planet wide. Get rid of AM and PM. Get rid of military time. So 5:69 would be the same in New York LA Tokyo Moscow and London.

This 5500 year old way of keeping time is outdated and needs to change because I like my atuff based off of base 10. Just think the jobs that would create changing out old clocks for new clocks and once that is done they would never be a need to change them again.

 

[Mij]

sexagesimal number system.
Invented by Babylonians in 3500 bc.
Based on the number 60 thus time angles and latitude and longitude in mapping derives from this ancient system of counting.

If I remember my high school history teacher correct (she would be considered politically incorrect today) she said it had to do with the bones of the fingers and you could count to 60 easy on your hands not just 10.

Mathematically 12 is divisible by 2 3 4 6 and 12 itself but 10 has only 3 divisors. 60 has 12 divisors including 10
And 12. 12 and 60 have more divisors than any number lower than them.

So if we are going to change things up I demand )seems like making demands is popular lately) that we make time based off 10 and 100 instead of 12 and 60. Keep it the same planet wide. Get rid of AM and PM. Get rid of military time. So 5:69 would be the same in New York LA Tokyo Moscow and London.

This 5500 year old way of keeping time is outdated and needs to change because I like my atuff based off of base 10. Just think the jobs that would create changing out old clocks for new clocks and once that is done they would never be a need to change them again.

Good idea. I’ve always liked the metric system. So every 6 minutes would = 1/10 of an hour.

edit: that’s purple folks!

 

[snapping turtle]

doing my best to keep a 10 year old 225 page post alive.

 

[ditcherman]

Good for you! You are now all farmers…

YES!! Achievement unlocked!

 

[jamil]

You're making a distinction without a difference. Of people with an opinion on the matter, that opinion is 3:1 in favor of stopping the practice of changing clocks twice a year.

I said absolutely nothing about "voting". I'm refuting your arguments that a) changing clocks is popular, and b) no strong majority exists on the question of continuing vs stopping the practice of changing clocks.

I’m not defending changing clocks. I like it to stay where I like it. I really prefer zulu time.

But. Just challenging the logic here a little. I don’t remember the exact poll numbers, for the sake of argument let’s say it’s broken into thirds—you can fill in the correct numbers and the same point can be made. So let’s say a third want to stay on DST year round, a third wants to stay on standard time year round. A third want to continue masturbating their clocks twice per year. Can you logically conclude that the two factions that want DST or standard time year round don’t want the clocks changed if it’s the other time that’s kept year round?

I think that if the polling does not separate the difference, it does not imply that not changing the clocks is more important. Maybe some of the DST’ers would rather keep changing their clocks if it means they’d at least get DST most of the year.

 

[jkaetz]

There is no “daylight until 10 PM”. The latest sunset in Indy is 9:16 and that runs for about 30 days beginning about June 10th. Civil twilight ends at about 9:50.

As I have said repeatedly in this thread, there is no good time for Indy because we only have two choices, to be the early bird, meaning having among the earliest sunrises in the country or the night owl having among the later sunsets in the country. That is the result of your point that we are the west edge of eastern or the east edge of central.

Define the light level all you want, our bodies need the darkness to start preparing for sleep. If we are to assume that most people work 8 - 5 and need 1 - 2 hours between waking up and beginning work then they need to be sleeping by 9 - 10PM to get the average 8 hours of sleep. This is very difficult being that it isn't dark enough for our bodies to start preparing for sleep at that time. We do at least notice that it's getting darker outside but children who need 10 - 12 hours of sleep barely notice that the sun is getting lower in the sky.