Big Problems if Trump is Indicted

[KG1]

I don't need to see the confederate flag to recognize some of the good qualities of the southern culture which I align with that southerners takes pride in now. Like jamil has pointed out there are a lot of damn fine folks in the south and they should be proud. They don't need to show me the confederate flag as a symbol of their southern cultural pride. I'm already cool with them. And that's coming from a "Yankee." who thoroughly enjoys the cultural southern hospitality of my friends.

 

[KG1]

I'm not in favor of it. I just see why they don't see it like you do. It's a big middle finger to people they don't like.

Why are you then not in favor of it? Would you agree with my point that it's an unneeded distraction? I'm trying to whittle this down to something we both can agree on.

 

[BugI02]

Perhaps our tame leftist would comment on individuals I would expect him to approve of, Antifa, adopting the 'three arrows' symbology of the Social Democratic Party of pre-Two Germany.

After all, the Iron Front fought against Nazism and Communism but ultimately they were crushed by the SA (stürmabteilung) and its successors

So, since the Iron Front lost the war, why adopt the symbology of the losers? Couldn't be admiring that they fought well in a losing cause, because that is what we are being told isn't a good enough reason vis a vis the stars and bars

 

[LeftyGunner]

Perhaps our tame leftist would comment on individuals I would expect him to approve of, Antifa, adopting the 'three arrows' symbology of the Social Democratic Party of pre-Two Germany.

After all, the Iron Front fought against Nazism and Communism but ultimately they were crushed by the SA (stürmabteilung) and its successors

So, since the Iron Front lost the war, why adopt the symbology of the losers? Couldn't be admiring that they fought well in a losing cause, because that is what we are being told isn't a good enough reason vis a vis the stars and bars


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You want me to comment on ANTIFA and their chosen symbols?

Sure.

**** ANTIFA, and **** the “occupy” wing of the party that enables them.

Coward punks covering their faces to ruin the lives and livelihoods of hard working people in the name of “settling inequity” just chaps my ass…they’d be a whole lot less unequal if they moved out of mom’s basement and found meaningful employment for themselves.

I don’t care what symbols they use, the cowards themselves just exude tiny dick energy.

For the record, I had no idea what that symbol you were referring to in your posts even was…I don’t recall seeing it before, amd I was certainly unaware of ANTIFA’s attachment to it.

 

[LeftyGunner]

Why are you then not in favor of it? Would you agree with my point that it's an unneeded distraction? I'm trying to whittle this down to something we both can agree on.

I think you nailed it…people are free to express themselves, but that symbol comes with baggage that doesn’t help MAGA.

 

[KG1]

You want me to comment on ANTIFA and their chosen symbols?

Sure.

**** ANTIFA, and **** the “occupy” wing of the party that enables them.

Coward punks covering their faces to ruin the lives and livelihoods of hard working people in the name of “settling inequity” just chaps my ass…they’d be a whole lot less unequal if they moved out of mom’s basement and found meaningful employment for themselves.

I don’t care what symbols they use, the cowards themselves just exude tiny dick energy.

For the record, I had no idea what that symbol you were referring to in your posts even was…I don’t recall seeing it before, amd I was certainly unaware of ANTIFA’s attachment to it.

That's not good enough. Can you expand on it?

 

[jamil]

Jamil, we are talking about the same subject, but arguing from different points of view.

As it appears to me, you are arguing about the intent of the symbol, while I am arguing about the reception of the symbol.

I understand you were making a point about how it's perceived. And I replied to that and said it was perceived like that by the left because of ignorance. Your understanding of it does not sound to me like you've gotten anything out of it other than what your bubble has told you.

Go through my posts…I never stated, implied, or inferred that people who fly the stars and bars are all racists, or that they all fly the flag with racist intent…you made that leap for me as a rhetorical device.

C'mon man. Be serious.

Here's one of them.

I can think of countless reasons not to, but only one reason to do so: to send a clear message to non-whites that they are unwelcome, because that’s exactly how they’d see it.

There's only one reason a person might invite a black person over when you have your rebel flag up. Right? To send the message you think. Or. The guy whose flag is running below the US flag on his pole invites his neighbor over because they're friends. The neighbor has one too.

The intent behind my words was lost in your interpretation of them.…this is exactly the same problem with that damned flag.

You make the point that some southerners use that symbol as an icon of their southern heritage…fair enough.

I'm pretty sure I said culture. The flag is a cultural icon throughout the south associated with regional pride. Also, others have noted that it's also a symbol "rebel". Anti-government and whatnot.

You also conceded the point that some actual racists use that symbol as an icon of their hatred.

I would rather have said it this way. KKK certainly uses the flag, and it's a part of their identity. Do they intend it as an icon of their hatred? I don't think they think the flag represents hate. I think they think the flag represents the rebellion.

The KKK was formed right after the end of the civil war. Former confederates. I think the flag to them meant that they're still part of the confederacy. I'm not saying they don't hate black people, but I don't think that's what they're symbolizing with the flag. But, it's certainly understandable that people see that flag and think it symbolizes hate.

Well, to me that looks like the ultimate Mott and Bailey for covert resists to hide behind…”I’m not a hateful bigot, I’m just passionate about my heritage”...I guess I just have to take their word for it.

I could say the same thing. You started this subtopic talking about what it looks like to people when they see that flag with Trump's image on it. Then I bring intent into it and you didn't put it in specific words but what you've been about the whole time is that there can only be one reason someone might display it. It's not a far jump at all.

Let me ask this. Before I spoke up about it, did it even occur to you why so many people display it for reasons that have nothing to do with racism? Have you ever given any thought at all to it. Like, "hmm, we're told that flag can only mean racist things, so why do all those people wave it around? Can they all be racists? Really?"

When I originally brought up the Confederate Battle Flag, I specifically mentioned the version including Trump’s portrait and how it would likely be viewed as unwelcoming to the uninitiated... I am not addressing the intent of that symbol’s use, I am addressing its reception…its effect.

Intent is an important part and pointing out that you can relax, most people who display that flag are no more racist than you are. I think it's also fair to point out that the reaction in the media to that was over the top, and disproportionate.

Without additional context the intent behind the use of that symbol is vague and unclear: The person flying that flag may want to kill me with their kindness like you say, or they may want to kill me with their fists…either intent might be communicated through use of that symbol, and the consequences of misunderstanding could realistically result in violence.

Wouldn't it be better if the media honestly explored why people fly that flag and report on that? Behavior is the key indicator.

Senario: Okay so you see the stereotypical unshaven red neck, driving a mid 2000's RAM 2500 diesel with a 12" diameter smoke stack sticking up through the hole in the bed they cut for it, and they're rolling coal down the highway. On the front bumper is a rebel flag plate, and a rebel flag screen in the back window. You can barely make out a rebel flag patch on the driver's head through the hat's grime. And you're pretty sure you just saw him taking a swig of what looks like a clear liquid from a mason jar, but you're sure it's not water. The driver also looks like he's been inbred about 4 generations, and has a scowl on his face.

Is he a racist?

Answer. Not enough information. But it's probably best if you avoid him either way because of the other red flags available to you.

Okay. Let's say you also see some bumper stickers on the back of his truck that says, "only n-word and ****ies wear hats backwards."

Now you have sufficient evidence to know he's a racist. I don't know if I got the wording right, but I actually saw that bumper sticker back in the 80s.

Rebel flag alone...don't know. Rebel flag or not + other indicators, yeah. A racist.

 

[jamil]

What exactly is "southern heritage?"

Obviously southern heritage would be, having ancestors from the Southern US, which shouldn't imply anything by itself unless you're a bigot. But that's not the term I used. Like I said, I think I said Southern culture. Which should also not imply anything untoward. Unless you're a bigot.

 

[KG1]

There's only one reason a person might invite a black person over when you have your rebel flag up. Right? To send the message you think. Or. The guy whose flag is running below the US flag on his pole invites his neighbor over because they're friends. The neighbor has one too.

I don't care what flag it is. if a guy is running one his pole I'm not coming in. If the neighbor is too I'm avoiding the whole neighborhood.

 

[jamil]

You want me to comment on ANTIFA and their chosen symbols?

Sure.

**** ANTIFA, and **** the “occupy” wing of the party that enables them.

Coward punks covering their faces to ruin the lives and livelihoods of hard working people in the name of “settling inequity” just chaps my ass…they’d be a whole lot less unequal if they moved out of mom’s basement and found meaningful employment for themselves.

Speaking of the "occupy" wing. Digging into it a little bit, it started out as just being anti-establishment types. It would be more like the Jimmy Dore wing of the left. Left wing. Some of which anti-establishment people on the right support today. But then the communist types sort of crashed the party much like evangelicals crashed the TEA Party. They turned it into a **** show. But the original occupiers weren't the ones doing the violence and property damage.

I don’t care what symbols they use, the cowards themselves just exude tiny dick energy.

I don't know how old you are. I assume over 40. People over 40 should not encourage the use of stupid Millennial phrases by using them. You say anything "dick energy" and you might as well put a sign on your forehead that says, "I'm 12, gimmea break"

For the record, I had no idea what that symbol you were referring to in your posts even was…I don’t recall seeing it before, amd I was certainly unaware of ANTIFA’s attachment to it.

 

[jamil]

I don't care what flag it is. if a guy is running one his pole I'm not coming in. If the neighbor is too I'm avoiding the whole neighborhood.

Well. Flag pole.

 

[Route 45]

Obviously southern heritage would be, having ancestors from the Southern US, which shouldn't imply anything by itself unless you're a bigot. But that's not the term I used. Like I said, I think I said Southern culture. Which should also not imply anything untoward. Unless you're a bigot.

I wasn't asking about southern culture, I specifically asked someone else about what southern "heritage" means.

I know what southern culture is. It's biscuits and gravy, church on Sunday and an accent that I DO want to hear out of my auto mechanic, but DO NOT want to hear out of my surgeon.



And no, ancestry is not the same thing as heritage.

 

[jamil]

I'm not in favor of it. I just see why they don't see it like you do. It's a big middle finger to people they don't like.

Maybe that depends where you are. Because of the hype I don't think people outside of the South can fly it. Maybe not in certain cites in the South either.

 

[jamil]

I wasn't asking about southern culture, I specifically asked someone else about what southern "heritage" means.

I know what southern culture is. It's biscuits and gravy, church on Sunday and an accent that I DO want to hear out of my auto mechanic, but DO NOT want to hear out of my surgeon.



And no, ancestry is not the same thing as heritage.

I think your question was relevant to me because the person you asked said it to me, in reply to one of my posts.

 

[jamil]

The "racist" people you're talking about would use a far less vague symbol than the confederate battle flag, if they were of the persuasion to actually harm you.

It's been my experience that when you encounter a racist, they have no problem telling you exactly what they think. Years ago I had to work with a union guy in Ft Wayne. Lived there all his life. He once told me he liked Bobby Knight because he beats those n-word teams. He was a ****ing ******* in every other possible way.

He didn't like Southerners either. He told another coworker who was from KY that he's gonna send him back to KY and blow up all the bridges so he can't come back.

People who are that filled with hate are not at all shy about it.

 

[jamil]

While I agree the modern media has run away with the message, the link is undeniable: The flag was originally designed to represent white supremacists, and white supremacists have rallied beneath it ever since.

Like I said, KKK was started by confederates who thought of themselves as confederates. The flag stayed with them. It wasn't designed to represent white supremacists. The flag itself was designed to represent the confederacy. You could argue that the confederacy represented that too. But it's use in these hate groups carried on by the people who founded the KKK.

I can only speak for myself, but when I see the stars and bars in Indiana I see a clear reason to avoid that person…their ideals aren’t likely to align with mine, and I don’t want to end up in an altercation of any type.

Am I afraid for my life because I saw a flag? No. Am I reluctant to engage in an interaction that will only end up casting a shadow on my day (and likely my view of my fellow man)? Yeah…a bit.

Again, let’s ask people we both trust…what do black INGOers think? When they see a confederate flag on display in Indiana what are their thoughts?

I'm not going to live my life worrying if I'll be seen as guilty by association because of preconceptions. That's a collectivist game. I don't play it. I'm not playing the disavow olympics.

But I'll definitely dissociate from people I think are bad people.

 

[jamil]

I don't need to see the confederate flag to recognize some of the good qualities of the southern culture which I align with that southerners takes pride in now. Like jamil has pointed out there are a lot of damn fine folks in the south and they should be proud. They don't need to show me the confederate flag as a symbol of their southern cultural pride. I'm already cool with them. And that's coming from a "Yankee." who thoroughly enjoys the cultural southern hospitality of my friends.

I mean. I grew up in the Midwest. I don't get no damn flag to show pride in my region.

I lived in NC for a few years. They called me a carpet bagger, Damned Yankee. When they found out my parents were from the south they started calling me a galvanized Yankee, and were okay with it. I've also lived in SC, Texas and MS. Each region is different.

East coast seemed to be more bitter about the Civil War. That carpet bagger thing I think is a good indicator why. Missippi wasn't ****ed over by the north after the war nearly as much as south east. I think I could count the number of times I was called a Yankee the whole time I lived there. And then it was just joking. Those NC boys were not joking.

 

[BigRed]

These are about the only flags that fly at my place.

Bonnie Blue flies too. So does "An Appeal to Heaven".

 

[jamil]

I know someone who has a US flag at the top of the flag pole, then a Trump flag under that. And then a **** Joe Biden flag under that.

And that's what not living under Karen's HOA hell gets you. I laugh every time I drive by. Freedom baby.

 

[mmpsteve]

^^^ THIS ^^^

.. The bonus was it attracted a certain demographic of female that liked to party and go skinny dipping in Lake Michigan.



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