Big Problems if Trump is Indicted

[IN New Guy]

Being career military, I have lived all over this country. I grew up in the South, went to school through college in the South. There may be a small minority of those displaying the Stars and Bars that are racist, but I can tell you the overwhelming majority, in my opinion, are not racist. They are Southerners, proud of their region of this country, and of traditional Southern values of family, hard work, religion, etc. I have seen just as many non-whites that are racists that I have seen whites that are racist. And most of what I've seen has occurred in the Northern and far Western states. Unfortunately, there are loud-mouths from all over that see racism in just about everything, and that makes things that much worse.

 

[Tombs]

Jamil, we are talking about the same subject, but arguing from different points of view.

As it appears to me, you are arguing about the intent of the symbol, while I am arguing about the reception of the symbol.

Go through my posts…I never stated, implied, or inferred that people who fly the stars and bars are all racists, or that they all fly the flag with racist intent…you made that leap for me as a rhetorical device.

The intent behind my words was lost in your interpretation of them.…this is exactly the same problem with that damned flag.

You make the point that some southerners use that symbol as an icon of their southern heritage…fair enough.

You also conceded the point that some actual racists use that symbol as an icon of their hatred.

Well, to me that looks like the ultimate Mott and Bailey for covert resists to hide behind…”I’m not a hateful bigot, I’m just passionate about my heritage”...I guess I just have to take their word for it.

When I originally brought up the Confederate Battle Flag, I specifically mentioned the version including Trump’s portrait and how it would likely be viewed as unwelcoming to the uninitiated... I am not addressing the intent of that symbol’s use, I am addressing its reception…its effect.

Without additional context the intent behind the use of that symbol is vague and unclear: The person flying that flag may want to kill me with their kindness like you say, or they may want to kill me with their fists…either intent might be communicated through use of that symbol, and the consequences of misunderstanding could realistically result in violence.

The "racist" people you're talking about would use a far less vague symbol than the confederate battle flag, if they were of the persuasion to actually harm you.

 

[bobzilla]

The "racist" people you're talking about would use a far less vague symbol than the confederate battle flag, if they were of the persuasion to actually harm you.

Once again we aren’t going to let facts get in the way of feelz

 

[KG1]

Have they dismissed the case yet?

 

[KLB]

Without additional context the intent behind the use of that symbol is vague and unclear: The person flying that flag may want to kill me with their kindness like you say, or they may want to kill me with their fists…either intent might be communicated through use of that symbol, and the consequences of misunderstanding could realistically result in violence.

I doubt many people came up with the interpretation that someone wanted to kill them with their fists until the media went on their campaign saying the flag represented white supremacists.

 

[LeftyGunner]

I doubt many people came up with the interpretation that someone wanted to kill them with their fists until the media went on their campaign saying the flag represented white supremacists.

While I agree the modern media has run away with the message, the link is undeniable: The flag was originally designed to represent white supremacists, and white supremacists have rallied beneath it ever since.

I can only speak for myself, but when I see the stars and bars in Indiana I see a clear reason to avoid that person…their ideals aren’t likely to align with mine, and I don’t want to end up in an altercation of any type.

Am I afraid for my life because I saw a flag? No. Am I reluctant to engage in an interaction that will only end up casting a shadow on my day (and likely my view of my fellow man)? Yeah…a bit.

Again, let’s ask people we both trust…what do black INGOers think? When they see a confederate flag on display in Indiana what are their thoughts?

 

[KLB]

While I agree the modern media has run away with the message, the link is undeniable: The flag was originally designed to represent white supremacists, and white supremacists have rallied beneath it ever since.

I can only speak for myself, but when I see the stars and bars in Indiana I see a clear reason to avoid that person…their ideals aren’t likely to align with mine, and I don’t want to end up in an altercation of any type.

Am I afraid for my life because I saw a flag? No. Am I reluctant to engage in an interaction that will only end up casting a shadow on my day (and likely my view of my fellow man)? Yeah…a bit.

Again, let’s ask people we both trust…what do black INGOers think? When they see a confederate flag on display in Indiana what are their thoughts?

What ideals weren't in alignment?

For my part, when I saw one I generally assumed red neck country boy.

It is going to be hard now to know what people think about the flag, because of the media association of it with racism. I'm going to ask the people I work with though, because I am genuinely curious as to what they thought.

 

[LeftyGunner]

What ideals weren't in alignment?

Well, for starters, that displaying a confederate battle flag in Indiana is a positive thing.

For my part, when I saw one I generally assumed red neck country boy.

I‘m Jewish. I have seen how people talk about us, even in the 21st century. The same guys who fly the nazi flag like to fly the confederate flag too.

Please don’t make me search for pictures to prove my point…I’m sure everyone here has already seen too many like them.

When I see a confederate flag I think “Not worth the risk”.

It is going to be hard now to know what people think about the flag, because of the media association of it with racism. I'm going to ask the people I work with though, because I am genuinely curious as to what they thought.

Yeah. Me too, and specifically the Trump stars and bars…maybe I’m way off the norm on this one and just don’t realize it.

 

[KLB]

Yeah. Me too, and specifically the Trump stars and bars…maybe I’m way off the norm on this one and just don’t realize it.

Seems like people pushing back against the media assault on the flag.

 

[KG1]

I don't think LG is necessarily wrong in that some people get skittish when they see the confederate flag flown and they tend to see the worst historical connotations that have been associated with it so in light of that I think he has a point about it making some people reluctant to attend a Trump rally where the flag has been flown.

Like I said before IMO it's an unneeded distraction that doesn't add anything positive to promote the movement.

 

[KLB]

Like I said before IMO it's an unneeded distraction that doesn't add anything positive to promote the movement.

Except it fits in with a lot of the message from Trump. It is anti-establishment

 

[KG1]

Except it fits in with a lot of the message from Trump. It is anti-establishment

It also fits in with a lot of the message that it promotes white supremacy as well which has a tendency for some to not want to get on board with the MAGA movement.

 

[KLB]

It also fits in with a lot of the message that it promotes white supremacy as well which has a tendency for some to not want to get on board with the MAGA movement.

Yeah, but if Trump doesn't change his message to fit the narrative against him, why would his followers?

 

[bobzilla]

While I agree the modern media has run away with the message, the link is undeniable: The flag was originally designed to represent white supremacists, and white supremacists have rallied beneath it ever since.

I can only speak for myself, but when I see the stars and bars in Indiana I see a clear reason to avoid that person…their ideals aren’t likely to align with mine, and I don’t want to end up in an altercation of any type.

Am I afraid for my life because I saw a flag? No. Am I reluctant to engage in an interaction that will only end up casting a shadow on my day (and likely my view of my fellow man)? Yeah…a bit.

Again, let’s ask people we both trust…what do black INGOers think? When they see a confederate flag on display in Indiana what are their thoughts?

Don’t worry I wouldn’t want to interact with you either. Most leftist make me angry and I don’t like to be that way. For the record I’ve never once in my life had a rebel flag nor the desire for one.

 

[KG1]

Yeah, but if Trump doesn't change his message to fit the narrative against him, why would his followers?

Would you say the use of the confederate flag attracts more than detracts? I know it would be hard to gauge but my whole point is that it's not necessary and an unneeded distraction.

 

[LeftyGunner]

Don’t worry I wouldn’t want to interact with you either. Most leftist make me angry and I don’t like to be that way. For the record I’ve never once in my life had a rebel flag nor the desire for one.

You replied to me to tell me you don’t want to talk to me?

Bob, I’m getting mixed signals here.

 

[KG1]

I'm not so deep into my political bias to not recognize when I think someone whom I disagree with on a number of things may have a valid observation. I think LG has done so as well with those whom he doesn't normally align with.

 

[BugI02]

I can only speak for myself, but when I see the stars and bars in Indiana I see a clear reason to avoid that person…their ideals aren’t likely to align with mine, and I don’t want to end up in an altercation of any type.

I would suspect that might still be true even if they were rocking old glory

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Again, let’s ask people we both trust…what do black INGOers think? When they see a confederate flag on display in Indiana what are their thoughts?

Well, since you asked...

When I see one I instantly think "redneck idiot who thinks he's cool".
In my book, it's on par with a set of truck nuts.

Ok, sure it's a historical flag... but not for Indiana.
It's one from the LOSING side... of a civil war that we up here in Indiana... were on the WINNING side of.

It's something to learn from, but nothing to be proud of.
That war split the nation in half for years. Caused animosity for decades afterwards.
We're supposed to be back to one great nation now.
In my eyes, it's divisive.
Still free speech, so fly it if you want... but you look like an idiot (and a sore loser) doing it.

 

[KLB]

Would you say the use of the confederate flag attracts more than detracts? I know it would be hard to gauge but my whole point is that it's not necessary and an unneeded distraction.

I'm not in favor of it. I just see why they don't see it like you do. It's a big middle finger to people they don't like.