Army wants a harder-hitting pistol

[richardraw316]

I don't give a damn what they choose as long as we get m9s on the cheap.

 

[rhino]

The harder hitting pistol is called "rifle."

 

[TheDude]

The SIG 227

Now heres a thought. The 1911 while a great pistol....had its time.

 

[in625shooter]

You know, I'm going to say it. I haven't read through the thread so I'm not sure if it's been said yet but here I go, I know I'll get heat for this; 1911 45 acp and made by Colt. Why? Tradition and the fact that they can make a rugged, quality 1911, it isn't rocket science. They did before for two world wars, and still do for the marines. It'd also give American Army Personal Prestige using a classic American sidearm. Austria uses their glocks, why shouldn't we use our 1911s?

As Pointed out, the 1911's the USMC obtained are just for their special warfare types (Force Recon etc) not general issue, also the mentality of troops coming into the military back then compared to today is night and day. Then most had ample firearms experience and could be easily trained today lets just say firearms training is a challenge. Today's troops need probably more and because of shrinking budgets that isn't happening and I don't see that tide changing. As far as the M9 while yes it is an Italian company the Military M9's are made in the USA.

The logistics and cost and train-ability outweighs the "prestige" of anything evetytime.

And as far as Colt quality I was a CATM instructor for a bit and well over 15% of our NEW M4's from COLT had to be repaired by us right out of the box, burst cams, every type of springs bad, head space wrong you name it. And that was the norm across the country with other bases. I also owned a couple Colt handguns in the civilian world 20 years earlier that were complete pieces of crap.
We sure didn't have those issues when FN was the M 16 contract, just sayin!

I don't give a damn what they choose as long as we get m9s on the cheap.

Won't happen, they will either be cut up or sent to another 3rd world country. USAF Model 15 revolvers were sent to Central America in the late 1980's

The harder hitting pistol is called "rifle."

^^THIS^^

 

[45fan]

All this talk about Hollow points being off limits. Why not call them OTMs, and run with it? It seems to be working with the rifle rounds, and they are intended as a first line combat weapon. Handguns are not intended as combat arms, but a PDW, making the combat issue mute, and opening the door for all sorts of high quality ammunition.

Put a few 124gr Gold Dots into the chest of a jihadist, and see what that does compared to the FMJs that they are fielding currently. Im sure that they "personally defend" our troops much more effectively.

 

[Trigger Time]

I still vote for the sig 226 which should have been shown over the m9 anyways. But I love the m9 and will take it over a 1911 any day. I love 1911's but not for combat.

 

[roadrunner681]

isn't this what the pdw was made for? i say the little mp7 or the p90 would be good for guys that dont have room for a rifle. ive shot a p90(semi auto) and its very easy to use and i think that little cartridge would take a guy down a little better then a traditional pistol caliber carbine. instead of changing guns they ought to teach the soldiers how to use the a pistol first my father said they didn't even give him one all he had was m16.

 

[ryan3030]

Hate to say it but Glock/M&P, XD/m or FNX are the only choices that really make sense. HK maybe but price would be a serious issue.

• 1911 is nonsensical. Giving a high maintenance gun to your typical grunt running around in the sandbox is a recipe for disaster.
• All-steel frames (1911, Sig P series, CZ-75 & friends, etc) are silly in a time when they are already carrying far too much weight.

FNX 45 is the perfect candidate imo, followed closely by the G21 or M&P45. The G21/M&P45 is a better gun the the FNX (again, imo) but apparently grunts can't be trusted without a decocker or external safety, based on our experience with the XM9 trials and usage. Though I suppose they could use the M&P or Glock models that have the optional external safety.

Agree with PDWs for guys who can't carry a rifle, but for a sidearm a PDW is not the answer. .45 is a ridiculous caliber but given their limitation of using only ball ammo it is the best choice.

I own or have owned all the firearms I've listed here and, if it were my choice and I had to carry it, I'd go with the G21. extended basepads on magazines and a weapon light.

Though I'm not a serviceman, just an armchair commando and ballistics junkie.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I carried a 1911 for a few years when I first went in the Army 26 years ago. I was reluctant to turn it in and get an M9. That changed pretty quickly after I got an M9. They ran circles around the 1911's that were in the inventory at the time. Those things were tired.
For a military sidearm role, the M9 is a solid pistol. Only downside is the grip size for small hands. In two decades, I cannot think of one failure to feed, failure to eject or failure to fire with an M9.
And yes, I still carry one in retirement.

As far as a soldier being issued one to go to war and not having shot one in years.That doesn't happen except maybe on RARE occasion. It is determined what weapon/weapons you will carry before you deploy and you train and qualify with them before you leave CONUS.

As far as security on a submarine with an M4 or M14, hell I didn't see any submarines in Iraq or Afghanistan where I was walking anyway. ; 0)

The M9 had a lot of issues worth FTF with the non-Beretta magazines. My first mag fed fine. My other two were good for about 5 rounds before the follower stuck. Not the pistols fought, but I saw a ton of failures.

 

[Trigger Time]

The glock will never make it because of the lack of an external safety.

 

[1775usmarine]

I guess the Army wants more Marines then.

 

[halfmileharry]

I guess the Army wants more Marines then.

They may not want them but they need them. (insert purple if it makes you feel better)

 

[NyleRN]

I'm sure glock could always incorporate and external safety just for them. And btw, if all I have is to choose is fmj from handgun calibers, then I'm going with a 45acp every time. It takes more to stop an 18 wheeler going 45mph than a kia rio doing 70

 

[aaron580]

Glock 20's with full house 10mm…

 

[churchmouse]

Glock 20's with full house 10mm…

HHHmmmm, Yes they hit like a brick bat but what happened to you frame???

Heard of another doing the same thing just yesterday.

 

[aaron580]

HHHmmmm, Yes they hit like a brick bat but what happened to you frame???

Heard of another doing the same thing just yesterday.

Getting advice and knowing better to run a stock recoil spring when I should have been using a 24lb…. It SHOULD be going back this week, after that it may leave for other projects...

 

[churchmouse]

Getting advice and knowing better to run a stock recoil spring when I should have been using a 24lb…. It SHOULD be going back this week, after that it may leave for other projects...

Boys at the LGS told me about one that just came un-glued. Stock gun with a few hundred through it.

 

[richardraw316]

How about 44 mag? Not a whole lot out there more American than that. Let's issue ruger super red hawkswith 4 inch barrels and give them some buffalo bore hard cast +P bullets. Let's see Ak mags stop that sh*t.

 

[Wolverine6G]

I constantly had to keep cleaning my M9 mags and even then only loading 4-5 rounds in there when not on mission. The mags make the gun a turd. When it shot great i loved it

 

[juans]

I love the kick of a 45 acp. The issue is that they need to come with a magazine that could hold 10 bullets