Trump 2024 ???

[jamil]

Uhh, I wasn't the one claiming Trump only appealed to Trumpers. That's what I asked YOU to back up with cold, hard facts

As expected, you cannot and want me to prove your case. But I'll take a look

But you eagerly posted information that you thought (wrongly) refuted my post. So I think it's reasonable to push back and ask why are you complaining now? Why not be just as eager to prove me wrong now that you've gone back and read the context?

I'm glad you've regained your fervor. I hope the disappointment is not too great when you find that Trump is not all that popular outside of Republicans. And that the original point is true. That Trump doesn't appeal to enough people to make the Reagan strategy something he could pull off.

 

[Ingomike]

Everyone knows “the swamp” is the federal administrative state.

That is exactly what I believed it meant. Not that the DOJ/FBI/CIA were affecting the outcome of elections and legislature actions. That is new in the Trump era as I see it…

 

[KG1]

Is this it? The op-ed?



I am really interested in finding a candidate with the chops. Not one I necessarily like. One that I think is equipped to do what I think needs done. We can disagree on what that is. And I'll only ridicule you when you ridicule mine. And I have, because you have. I've looked for reasons to think DeSantis isn't serious about AF. It looks to me like he has consistently been. Maybe not to your liking. But you have one to your liking and it doesn't look to me like there is a person capable of taking Trump's place regardless of the bona fides. I wrote before that Trump does not own AF. I think many people thought it. I think we've all felt that way. Trump hit on the concept with MAGA. He gets credit for the large part he played in it. He doesn't own it. It preexisted Trump.


No. You're not supposed to not want Trump in the White House. He's your candidate. Support him. Defend him. But, when other people express reasons not to support him that's THEIR opinion. It doesn't mean they want you to agree with them. In fact, in most cases, people bring up the most derogatory points while defending themselves from you attacking them because they said something you don't like.


Again. No. Nobody is telling you what you should want. You think DeSantis is an unknown quantity? That's your opinion. People will push back on opinions though. Doing so does not mean they expect anything of you. The only thing people should expect is respectful discourse.

Now about the accusation you've made, I'm gonna push back on that. DeSantis hasn't been on the national political stage, but neither was Trump. If being an unknown quantity as a candidate for POTUS disqualifies someone, then you should have dumped Trump before he started. But you didn't. Because you saw things you liked, and you hoped would pan out. And largely they did. You're pleased with what Trump did. And that's good. But that's you. Other people are just expressing their views too. And you can push back on that. But if you want to be respected, you'll need to post respectfully. People will have the same contempt for you that you show towards them.


No it doesn't. That's an overly simplistic explanation. It's not the tweets even. The problem with Trump is that his huge Ego undermines his potential for success. It's why he can't get anything done in Congress. He helps his opponents tear him down by feeding them bits of legitimate complaints that they can build into a paper mache monster. He is his own worst enemy. You don't have to agree with me. It's my opinion. See how that works?


I think the Disney thing for DeSantis is a net loss.


I think the whole camp chair thing is in your imagination.


It's not nothing.



That's your opinion; you're obviously entitled to it. So I'll offer mine. I'm not passing on anyone, including Trump. Which means that if DeSantis shows himself not to be any more capable than Trump, I'd switch. But I hope I don't have to because I don't believe Trump can fix anything. But he has shown the capacity to temporarily mend it. So he'd do if DeSantis don't pan out.

I just checked this post out, and I would like to make a few comments on it. The post you commented on that was trashing DeSantis was made after a post that I had made daring to point out things that RDS had done that makes him worthy of consideration IMO and I applauded him for wanting to take a step up and run on the national stage to serve this country in the same fashion that Trump has.

I never took the chance to comment on that post directly as you have. You pretty much covered everything that I would have basically said. A couple of things I want to comment on are these. The first one is somewhat critical of DeSantis that I agree with and the second one is to address something that is lacking in unbiased intellectual honesty about DeSantis and the Russia/Ukraine war IMO.

I agree this whole drawn out Disney dust-up looks like a personal beef with Disney that DeSantis embarked on and is a net loss that doesn't seem to be gaining any ground politically.

The main thing though that I want to address (again) is this whole DeSantis is like" a folding camp chair on the current pointless war." thing. I think that's disingenuous. He still believes it's a pointless war for us to be involved in. Bug seems to want to conveniently overlook some of the things DeSantis has said to indicate that just so he can take another a pot shot at him. For example:

DeSantis suggested the fight was Europe’s fight, not so much America’s concern.

“The Europeans really need to do more. I mean, this is their continent. The U.S. has provided security for them. And yes, Poland — there’s some that are doing stuff, and that should be appreciated. But Germany, they’re not doing anything,” DeSantis said.

In March, DeSantis decried the war as “something that we have to have an open-ended blank check policy for” and “essentially a stalemate,” depleting “our current weapons stockpiles here in the United States.”

And here:

“While the U.S. has many vital national interests – securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Communist Party – becoming further entangled between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them. The Biden administration’s virtual “blank check” funding of this conflict for “as long as it takes,” without any defined objectives or accountability, distracts from our country’s most pressing challenges."

All this looks to me like he thinks it IS a pointless war for us to be involved in that isn't vitally important to our national Interests and should be Europe's problem to deal with. We have other more pressing national interest Issues of our own here.

I would submit based on all that (once again) this whole "folding camp chair" thing is off base in the bigger context which doesn't paint the whole picture and is purposely being overlooked that way in order to keep taking a continual cheap shot IMO.

 

[KLB]

Looks like supporters are no longer Trumpers. They are now MAGADONIANS.



And look, Fox viewership is down because they support someone other than Trump, not because they are getting rid of their popular hosts.

 

[KG1]

Looks like supporters are no longer Trumpers. They are now MAGADONIANS.



And look, Fox viewership is down because they support someone other than Trump, not because they are getting rid of their popular hosts.

This is just another example of more silliness. "MAGADONIANS"

 

[rhamersley]

Looks like supporters are no longer Trumpers. They are now MAGADONIANS.



And look, Fox viewership is down because they support someone other than Trump, not because they are getting rid of their popular hosts.

 

[BugI02]

I just checked this post out, and I would like to make a few comments on it. The post you commented on that was trashing DeSantis was made after a post that I had made daring to point out things that RDS had done that makes him worthy of consideration IMO and I applauded him for wanting to take a step up and run on the national stage to serve this country in the same fashion that Trump has.

I never took the chance to comment on that post directly as you have. You pretty much covered everything that I would have basically said. A couple of things I want to comment on are these. The first one is somewhat critical of DeSantis that I agree with and the second one is to address something that is lacking in unbiased intellectual honesty about DeSantis and the Russia/Ukraine war IMO.

I agree this whole drawn out Disney dust-up looks like a personal beef with Disney that DeSantis embarked on and is a net loss that doesn't seem to be gaining any ground politically.

The main thing though that I want to address (again) is this whole DeSantis is like" a folding camp chair on the current pointless war." thing. I think that's disingenuous. He still believes it's a pointless war for us to be involved in. Bug seems to want to conveniently overlook some of the things DeSantis has said to indicate that just so he can take another a pot shot at him. For example:

DeSantis suggested the fight was Europe’s fight, not so much America’s concern.

“The Europeans really need to do more. I mean, this is their continent. The U.S. has provided security for them. And yes, Poland — there’s some that are doing stuff, and that should be appreciated. But Germany, they’re not doing anything,” DeSantis said.

In March, DeSantis decried the war as “something that we have to have an open-ended blank check policy for” and “essentially a stalemate,” depleting “our current weapons stockpiles here in the United States.”

And here:

“While the U.S. has many vital national interests – securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Communist Party – becoming further entangled between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them. The Biden administration’s virtual “blank check” funding of this conflict for “as long as it takes,” without any defined objectives or accountability, distracts from our country’s most pressing challenges."

All this looks to me like he thinks it IS a pointless war for us to be involved in that isn't vitally important to our national Interests and should be Europe's problem to deal with. We have other more pressing national interest Issues of our own here.

I would submit based on all that (once again) this whole "folding camp chair" thing is off base in the bigger context which doesn't paint the whole picture and is purposely being overlooked that way in order to keep taking a continual cheap shot IMO.

Sigh

DeSantis correctly identifies Ukraine as a 'territorial dispute' and not essential to US security (a sound America First position, I would have given him props if he could have held it for more than a day)

DeSantis receives a lot of pushback, some from his own party (which should not be a surprise See: Mitch McConnell)

DeSantis walks it back, or clarifies his position - whichever you prefer

A is still a retreat under fire and IMO sets a precedent, namely that he might try out a few Trump-like positions but will quickly abandon them and fall back if he starts taking flak

In the same situation, what do you think Trump would have done

And while we're on the subject of prior posts, what exactly are the DeSantis positions that will appeal to the non-trumpets that ostensibly Trump cannot appeal to. If he seeks to come at Trump from the right he has even less chance of appealing to parts of the electorate beyond the Republican Party than Trump does, so it would seem to come down to being more likable or something and nibble at the edges of independents because Trump is already running away with the Republican Party. I recently read (caveat: it was a poll) that 70% of Republicans want Trump to be president again

Jamil was speaking to my comment, about using the Reagan method and going directly to the people. I think with twitter Trump did a pretty good job with that which was why he had to be censored and eventually banned - because he was successful at shaping public discourse

In all seriousness, I think DeSantis somehow appealing to a broader spectrum of people than just Republicans is wishful thinking, unless he suddenly goes rogue and starts that whole 'working across the aisle' surrender thing.

 

[jamil]

Wow. Long post, lol.

I just checked this post out, and I would like to make a few comments on it. The post you commented on that was trashing DeSantis was made after a post that I had made daring to point out things that RDS had done that makes him worthy of consideration IMO and I applauded him for wanting to take a step up and run on the national stage to serve this country in the same fashion that Trump has.

I never took the chance to comment on that post directly as you have. You pretty much covered everything that I would have basically said. A couple of things I want to comment on are these. The first one is somewhat critical of DeSantis that I agree with and the second one is to address something that is lacking in unbiased intellectual honesty about DeSantis and the Russia/Ukraine war IMO.

I agree this whole drawn out Disney dust-up looks like a personal beef with Disney that DeSantis embarked on and is a net loss that doesn't seem to be gaining any ground politically.

The main thing though that I want to address (again) is this whole DeSantis is like" a folding camp chair on the current pointless war." thing. I think that's disingenuous. He still believes it's a pointless war for us to be involved in. Bug seems to want to conveniently overlook some of the things DeSantis has said to indicate that just so he can take another a pot shot at him. For example:

DeSantis suggested the fight was Europe’s fight, not so much America’s concern.

“The Europeans really need to do more. I mean, this is their continent. The U.S. has provided security for them. And yes, Poland — there’s some that are doing stuff, and that should be appreciated. But Germany, they’re not doing anything,” DeSantis said.

In March, DeSantis decried the war as “something that we have to have an open-ended blank check policy for” and “essentially a stalemate,” depleting “our current weapons stockpiles here in the United States.”

And here:

“While the U.S. has many vital national interests – securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence, and checking the economic, cultural, and military power of the Chinese Communist Party – becoming further entangled between Ukraine and Russia is not one of them. The Biden administration’s virtual “blank check” funding of this conflict for “as long as it takes,” without any defined objectives or accountability, distracts from our country’s most pressing challenges."

All this looks to me like he thinks it IS a pointless war for us to be involved in that isn't vitally important to our national Interests and should be Europe's problem to deal with. We have other more pressing national interest Issues of our own here.

I would submit based on all that (once again) this whole "folding camp chair" thing is off base in the bigger context which doesn't paint the whole picture and is purposely being overlooked that way in order to keep taking a continual cheap shot IMO.

The folding chair has no basis. It's a fair point that DeSantis has much the same platform. And it looks to me like he's been mostly consistent on that since he was a congressman. To feign on about DeSantis's supposed folding on Ukraine is demonstrably nonsense. He's been consistent on that too. I think Bug would have more credibility if he stayed the former rather than making a fool of himself while claiming the latter.

 

[KG1]

Wow. Long post, lol.


The folding chair has no basis. It's a fair point that DeSantis has much the same platform. And it looks to me like he's been mostly consistent on that since he was a congressman. To feign on about DeSantis's supposed folding on Ukraine is demonstrably nonsense. He's been consistent on that too. I think Bug would have more credibility if he stayed the former rather than making a fool of himself while claiming the latter.

It was a long post. I did a jamil.

 

[jamil]

Looks like supporters are no longer Trumpers. They are now MAGADONIANS.



And look, Fox viewership is down because they support someone other than Trump, not because they are getting rid of their popular hosts.

Trump is making AF about himself and is unnecessarily pushing potential allies out. As he continues the list of attributes identifying "magadonians" he filters people out that don't adore him. So first filter is "smart". Which I can only interpret as "Trump smart". Alright, so what about the stupid Trumpers? They can't be AF? And how many does that eliminate from the club? Stick together as one? Alright, so what about people who aren't collectivists? You mean individualists can't be AF? People who aren't on Truth Social can't be AF? This is all about Trump, and NOT about AF. The only criteria that should be AF is that you advocate for AF policies.

By the time he applies all those filters, the number of "magadonians" are a small segment of society. This just serves my point that Trump is not equipped to put together a wide coalition to fight against clown world. He creates a clownworld in itself that is a polar opposite of the Left clownworld. At least he has a name for it now.

 

[jamil]

It was a long post. I did a jamil.

I like to call it jamil ipsum. But you did not randomly fill it with jamilisms. So it's rightfully KG1 ipsum

 

[BugI02]

Wow. Long post, lol.


The folding chair has no basis. It's a fair point that DeSantis has much the same platform. And it looks to me like he's been mostly consistent on that since he was a congressman. To feign on about DeSantis's supposed folding on Ukraine is demonstrably nonsense. He's been consistent on that too. I think Bug would have more credibility if he stayed the former rather than making a fool of himself while claiming the latter.

Of course you do!

Recall my prediction that DeSantis people would 'explain' his every misstep in exactly the manner they complained so vociferously about Trump people doing

And since we're dredging up his congressional record again (I guess five years as governor is not enough), explain to me again how co-sponsoring a bill to grant Puerto Rico statehood was actually a good thing? Is that the sort of thing he will be 'consistent' on? I'm sure he could 'work across the aisle' on that one

 

[BugI02]

By the time he applies all those filters, the number of "magadonians" are a small segment of society. This just serves my point that Trump is not equipped to put together a wide coalition to fight against clown world

Since you have indicated that you feel that coalition needs to reach beyond likely republican voters, perhaps you can explain what policies DeSantis has articulated so far that will have the desired appeal? Can we even agree that running to the right of Trump isn't going to appeal outside of a fraction of the Republican Party (that is declining over time)?

 

[jamil]

Sigh

DeSantis correctly identifies Ukraine as a 'territorial dispute' and not essential to US security (a sound America First position, I would have given him props if he could have held it for more than a day)

DeSantis receives a lot of pushback, some from his own party (which should not be a surprise See: Mitch McConnell)

DeSantis walks it back, or clarifies his position - whichever you prefer

A is still a retreat under fire and IMO sets a precedent, namely that he might try out a few Trump-like positions but will quickly abandon them and fall back if he starts taking flak

In the same situation, what do you think Trump would have done

And while we're on the subject of prior posts, what exactly are the DeSantis positions that will appeal to the non-trumpets that ostensibly Trump cannot appeal to. If he seeks to come at Trump from the right he has even less chance of appealing to parts of the electorate beyond the Republican Party than Trump does, so it would seem to come down to being more likable or something and nibble at the edges of independents because Trump is already running away with the Republican Party. I recently read (caveat: it was a poll) that 70% of Republicans want Trump to be president again

Jamil was speaking to my comment, about using the Reagan method and going directly to the people. I think with twitter Trump did a pretty good job with that which was why he had to be censored and eventually banned - because he was successful at shaping public discourse

You think that's what Trump did on Twitter? He didn't explain himself like Reagan did. Reagan articulately appealed to people about the things that are important to them. What Trump does is insult the people that twitterers on the right wanted to see insulted. Trump's not explaining anything. He's just making it about personalities, particularly his.

In all seriousness, I think DeSantis somehow appealing to a broader spectrum of people than just Republicans is wishful thinking, unless he suddenly goes rogue and starts that whole 'working across the aisle' surrender thing.

I'm still waiting for that poll that shows I'm wrong about Trump's ability to appeal widely with people. I'm not running out of popcorn though. Take your time. Hey, maybe GWP will make numbers up out of thin air for you to post. They're good at making people believe lies. Or idunno. Any of the other Trump propaganda media. Speaking of. You sure you can't find something on Truth Social? Surely there must be someone there to fabricate numbers since you can't find it anywhere legitimate.

 

[jamil]

Of course you do!

Recall my prediction that DeSantis people would 'explain' his every misstep in exactly the manner they complained so vociferously about Trump people doing

And since we're dredging up his congressional record again (I guess five years as governor is not enough), explain to me again how co-sponsoring a bill to grant Puerto Rico statehood was actually a good thing? Is that the sort of thing he will be 'consistent' on? I'm sure he could 'work across the aisle' on that one

I'm not fond of that, because it would give Democrats another Senator. But how is making Puerto Rico a state fundamentally against AF? Is Puerto Rico not part of America?

And about working across the isle. I hate to break it to you. But there aren't enough AF people in congress. A relatively few people were savvy enough to exploit a situation in the House to pressure the Speaker to promote some important AF things. Largely it's been all show and no go. We get to see hearings of a few AF committee members getting soundbites on YouTube. Nothing is coming of it.

Point is, when you need the people who disagree with you to get things done legislatively, you can't always get things done with sticks alone. Undoubtedly some carrots will have to be offered. Trumpers don't understand that. You think all it takes is a bloviating orange bully talking **** on twitter. When it comes to carrots, the key is holding a line and not giving up ground.

 

[KG1]

Sigh

DeSantis correctly identifies Ukraine as a 'territorial dispute' and not essential to US security (a sound America First position, I would have given him props if he could have held it for more than a day)

Sigh.
You seem to be missing the most important thing in the broader context which is still that DeSantis sees it as a non-essential US security concern and has not called for further involvement. He never retreated on that. I would challenge you to find anywhere that he has. He wants it to end without our further involvement just like Trump does.

In all seriousness, I think DeSantis somehow appealing to a broader spectrum of people than just Republicans is wishful thinking, unless he suddenly goes rogue and starts that whole 'working across the aisle' surrender thing.

Speaking about an example of attempting to work across the aisle thing didn't Trump originally try to do that when first elected in 2016 but quickly found out that it wasn't going to work? He should've known that. I'm pretty sure that DeSantis knows that it wouldn't work, and he wouldn't even attempt to do it.

 

[B.king]

View attachment 279630

Trump is making AF about himself and is unnecessarily pushing potential allies out. As he continues the list of attributes identifying "magadonians" he filters people out that don't adore him. So first filter is "smart". Which I can only interpret as "Trump smart". Alright, so what about the stupid Trumpers? They can't be AF? And how many does that eliminate from the club? Stick together as one? Alright, so what about people who aren't collectivists? You mean individualists can't be AF? People who aren't on Truth Social can't be AF? This is all about Trump, and NOT about AF. The only criteria that should be AF is that you advocate for AF policies.

By the time he applies all those filters, the number of "magadonians" are a small segment of society. This just serves my point that Trump is not equipped to put together a wide coalition to fight against clown world. He creates a clownworld in itself that is a polar opposite of the Left clownworld. At least he has a name for it now.

Trump is finished economicly , politicaly, personaly speaking, he's a fool. It's all his doing !!!!!!

 

[BugI02]

I'm still waiting for that poll that shows I'm wrong about Trump's ability to appeal widely with people

I'm still waiting for that data supporting your assertion that Trump only appeals to Trumpers

"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

That's that Hitchens guy, rational atheist, I thought you might like him

 

[BugI02]

Sigh.
You seem to be missing the most important thing in the broader context which is still that DeSantis sees it as a non-essential US security concern and has not called for further involvement. He never retreated on that. I would challenge you to find anywhere that he has. He wants it to end without our further involvement just like Trump does.

Why did he need to retreat at all?

 

[B.king]

Looks like supporters are no longer Trumpers. They are now MAGADONIANS.



And look, Fox viewership is down because they support someone other than Trump, not because they are getting rid of their popular hosts.

Fox entertainment news was convicted of lying to the fools that followed Their B.S., you deserve more of it. Show me the proof trumpsters. I pity the fools.