Uvalde Texas Killing

[Ingomike]

How many needed to? If only people had the means to share information with each other.

A whole classroom of children was left at the mercy of this guy for an hour. I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, that is the bottom line. They knew there were children in that room. They left them to die.

How do you now they knew? You're presenting an assumption without evidence.

No he is not. There were all the 911 calls begging for help. Pretty clear to me…

 

[Keith_Indy]

No he is not. There were all the 911 calls begging for help. Pretty clear to me…

All the calls begging for help. There are 3 noted on the timeline.

11:48:18 PD Officer whose wife was shot. He's shown on the North end of hall.
12:03:50 911 call from inside room 112
12:10:06 room 112 - "Please send help for my teacher she is shot but still alive. A lot of people are gone, please hurry up. Come immediate 112."

Still not clear that any of this information made it's way to the south end of the hallway.

This is another, they OUGHT to have known, they SHOULD have been told, or ASSUMED there were children/teachers in that room.

I'm not excusing any of what happened, or the many failures. Just trying to remain factual in this highly emotional thread.

If people are going to be incorrect about what facts are available from the report and video, or make suppositions that aren't supported by same, I will post what the report said.

But otherwise, say all you want about what they shoulda, woulda, coulda done.

Knowing what actually happened and why is far more important now, than satisfying ones ego that they would have stormed that room, or whatever.

We know what OUGHT to have happened according to the plans. And we know the results of that clusterfuck.

Yelling at the sky saying, WHY DIDN'T THEY BREACH SOONER, isn't gonna fix anything.

 

[Ingomike]

All the calls begging for help. There are 3 noted on the timeline.

I thought we had more 911 calls released weeks ago…

 

[Creedmoor]

This is the possibility. They know this when they signed up. So if you won’t do it get out of the way and let someone else who will do it.

Exactly... I'll push you out of the way.

It can come with enlisting as a Infantry grunt.
This powder fresh face boy of mine has done it in two countries as his father.
His older brother more.
He just earned his Eagle & Globe.

 

[Keith_Indy]

I thought we had more 911 calls released weeks ago…

Still unknown, what information did the officers in the south end of the hall (they seem to be the primary group for operations there) receive and when.

That's my only point, the report and video state that all responding officers didn't know there were children in that classroom. And mentioned the unreliable radio communication in the building.

 

[rooster]

I eagerly await someone like donut putting all this together in a nice presentation

 

[Creedmoor]

Just want to jump in here, in the interest of keeping your arguments valid, to mention cops aren’t military, no matter how much they may or may not want to be.

LE has better bugets per man vers The MC.

 

[BigRed]

Not following this thread post by post.

Based on the video I saw, an officer had a shot on the thug before the thug went into the school.

While Monday morning QB stuff is easy, one cannot help but wonder how things may have been different if an attempt had been made then.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Not following this thread post by post.

Based on the video I saw, an officer had a shot on the thug before the thug went into the school.

While Monday morning QB stuff is easy, one cannot help but wonder how things may have been different if an attempt had been made then.

If you're talking about the officer who requested authorization to shoot at a figure dressed in black, that was one of the coaches, not the gunman.

 

[BigRed]

If you're talking about the officer who requested authorization to shoot at a figure dressed in black, that was one of the coaches, not the gunman.

I'm talking about the guy who had a shot at the murderous thug before he entered the building.

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

[Keith_Indy]

I'm talking about the guy who had a shot at the murderous thug before he entered the building.

Are we talking about the same thing?

Not sure...

The Report (again...)

The bold part may have been a missed opportunity, but if so, it's not indicated anywhere that SSgt Canales lined up on the shooter at that time.

The bold italics details the "request for fire at 100+ yard person in black" which turned out to be a coach.

Page 42/43

On arrival at the school, SSgt. Canales saw cars stopped and a man shooting a gun. He grabbed his rifle, put a magazine into it, and grabbed an extra magazine. He saw people at the funeral home pointing in the direction of the school and he heard someone say the attacker was in or near the building. SSgt Canales entered an open gate where he met Lt Javier Martinez, also of the Uvalde Police.

...

Sgt Coronado exited his vehicle, heard gunfire and asked where the shooting was occurring. At first, the other officers said they did not know and the could not see the attacker.

One of those officers testified to the Committee that, based on the sound of echoes, he believed the shooter had fired in their direction. That officer saw children dressed in bright colors in the playground, all running away. Then, at a distance exceeding 100 yards, he saw a person dressed in black, also running away. Thinking that the person dressed in black was the attacker, he raised his rifle and asked Sgt Coronado for permission to shoot.

Sgt Coronado testified he heard the request and he hesitated. He knew there were children present. He considered the risk of shooting a child and he quickly recalled his training that officers are responsible for every round that goes downrange.

According to the officer who made the request, there was no opportunity for Sgt Coronado to respond before they heard on the radio that the attacker was running toward the school. The officers testified to the Committee that it turned out that the person they had seen dressed in black was not the attacker, but instead it was Robb Elementary Coach Abraham Gonzales.

Here's the footnote on page 43 describing the interview notes.

The ALERRT report appears to rely on an interview conducted by Texas Ranger Michael Schraub, who interview the officer in question on May 27, 2022. That report stated:

"While in route to the scene Officer [A] advised Officer located the shooter. However the shooter was located a couple blocks away from the dispatch location. Officer [A] advised upon arrival, the shooter was shooting at Officer . Officer [A] advised he positioned his patrol vehicle while ducking down and grabbing his rifle between the shooter and Officer . Officer [A] advised the purpose was to protect Officer while he exited his patrol vehicle. Officer [A] advised his vehicle was not struck by any projectiles.

Officer [A] advised upon exiting his patrol vehicle he observed the shooter in the distance. When he observed the shooter, Officer [A] advised there were kids in the background. Therefor, Officer [A] advised he hesitated shooting at the suspect. Officer [A] advised he requested permission to shoot, looked back very briefly at Sergeant Coronado, but never received a response. Upon looking back the direction of the shooter Officer [A] advised the shooter was gone."

In subsequent DPS interview, the officer in question described the person he saw not as "the shooter" but as "a person in black toward the back of the school, but kids were behind that individual."

 

[rooster]

I’m watching g the videos and gonna post recaps of what I (emphasis on that) think are important observations. I did this on mobile while on the treadmill so excuse the formatting, I want to get this info out and spreading since this story is dying after greenwood. I’ll save my comments for next post.

Everything is quotes should be considered a close paraphrase not a direct quote. Once again I did this on mobile while taking a walk. Only way I could fit this into my schedule.

Coronado
11:36 arrives on scene. Has radio contact with dispatch. Yells “ oh **** shots fired get inside” relays on radio. ( can’t breath at all and needs to do cardio, important in my mind because it shows lack of training).



11:37 multiple shots fired officer is inside the building.

11:38 someone yells “are you hit” to another cop. Body cam officers leaves the building (chicken ****)

11:39 relays to dispatch “he’s in this building we have him contained, male subject with an AR”

11:40 “any available unit, bring shields”

11:40 calls for helo and asks dispatch to notify DPS and tell them to bring shields.

11:41 over the radio says “suspect is barricaded”



Continues to yell at his officers to be careful and says things that in my mind are meant to urge caution and stop action.



11:42 unknown officer on radio” all uvalde, (unintelligible) again it’s moralizes (spelling) classroom, check and see if anyone is in there”



“All uvalde the classroom should be in session, the classroom in session”



Body cam officer heard saying “oh no”



11:44-unknown officer comes over the radio “where do you need me, lots of officers showing up near the funeral home”

Coronado directs them to keep people back



11:45 - asks if special deputies have flash bangs on radio. No response given and no follow up.



11:46 officer at corner of building seen yelling at someone else to keep clear that’s the line of sight.



11:47 heard directing a female officer where to go and tells the guy next to him “ no she has tools”

( I take that as she has breaching tools in her vehicle)



11:48 gives scene assessment over radio. Suspect is contained and officers inside and outside.

11:49 what looks to be dps officers with rifles show up on scene and Coronado says “no no we are good guys”

“I’m worried of overcrowding in here, there is plenty of officers”



11:51 says “chief is in there chief is in charge” to dps and cpb guys.



11:52 more cautioning and “watch out guys” from Coronado



11:52 Coronado “ all units arriving help with crowd control we have coverage”

11:53 Coronado to another officer “bortac is supposed to come up”

Other officer “bortac is already over there” pointing to the east.

11:54 someone comes out yelling about “rangers coming” Coronado says “ya but we got bortac”

Room clearing via windows 12:00-12:10



Enters classroom 12:10 “”yells “cover me” to a fellow officer while waking in. Lack of proper 1 man room clearance



12:10:30 says “chief there is no way to get in that classroom?, I can bust the window”



Chief seems to be on phone at 12:11. Sounds like the audio is edited out



12:11

Police yelling in to classroom saying “this can be peaceful “

12:15 points out that guys in the hallway are in the line of fire.

12:17 chief clearly has keys in his hands

They tried the keys on a different classroom and none seemed to open.

12:19 central office called this officer

12:19 appear to be attempting to break into a door thats not the classroom with knives.

12:21 shots from classroom. Police start yelling “can you hear me sir”



(Surely these guys can hear children screaming and those have been edited out)

12:23 I can clearly hear other police radios going in the background in the school so if the calls from the classroom were relayed via the radio the chief would have heard them.

12:24

Yelling at suspect in English and Spanish to put the gun down.

12:26. He says “bortac is gonna do it”



12:27 officer corando has to tell the chief “ chief that room is clear” because chief keeps peeking in a random door.



Continue to try keys and say “we need a key” problem could have been solved by a leader pointing at someone and saying “you there go get a sledgehammer or a fire ax or something from the fire trucks outside.”

12:35 body cam officer is talking to chief and telling him what happened. Says he say the guy drop a bag and they start spraying them with rounds.

Then clarified that he didn’t see that but a different officer did.



12:38 yelling at him using his name and saying please don’t hurt any children.

12:41 continuing to yell “please put your firearm down” ( are these the “negotiations we heard about”)

12:50 more mulling around and talking about “watch the roof he might have climbed through the ceiling””

Video cuts off before bortac shows up.

 

[rooster]

Quick observation: Coronado seems to be in a leadership position. He takes control of scene outside of building and for some reason slows all kinetic momentum of arriving officers telling them to be careful and go do crowd control. Tells arriving officers that no one is hit and they have the suspect contained.


In short order this guy and the chief need to be held accountable. Chief slowed momentum inside and Coronado slowed momentum outside.

 

[rooster]

Watched officer canales video. It’s short 6 minutes total. He was part of the initial officers that got shots up in the hallway. He was bleeding from his head after contact and ran outside.

At 11:40 he clearly told officers outside that the guys is shooting and he is in a classroom. “Ya guys in a classroom actively shooting”

He weirdly turned his body cam off after he walks back in the school and it cuts back in at 12:22 and then goes for another minute and ends.

 

[Floki]

Still unknown, what information did the officers in the south end of the hall (they seem to be the primary group for operations there) receive and when.

That's my only point, the report and video state that all responding officers didn't know there were children in that classroom. And mentioned the unreliable radio communication in the building.

seriously, did you really say that?

 

[Keith_Indy]

Quick observation: Coronado seems to be in a leadership position. He takes control of scene outside of building and for some reason slows all kinetic momentum of arriving officers telling them to be careful and go do crowd control. Tells arriving officers that no one is hit and they have the suspect contained.


In short order this guy and the chief need to be held accountable. Chief slowed momentum inside and Coronado slowed momentum outside.

Minor bitch, how many officers needed to be in those corridors? 376 officers responded to this. Yet, it's not having a lot of officers that count, it's having the right officers, with the proper mindset.

You've seen the video, something like a dozen or so officers at the north end, less at the south end. Besides the crossfire potential, if the killer had exited the room, those officers would have put each other in danger.

Coronado should have dragged the Chief out and had him setup tactical command right after the killer shot at the officers at the door.

This gives roughly the same readout of the videos as you did.

First on CNN: Uvalde Uvalde Video Shows Children Scrambling For Safety And A Chief Fumbling With Door Keys

Body camera footage reveals officers smashing windows and pulling children out of the school as well as inside a hallway fumbling with keys and failing to pry open a door near to where a gunman had control of two classrooms full of dead, dying and terrified children and teachers.

sacramento.cbslocal.com

At 12:11 p.m. a dispatcher can be heard saying there is a child on the line from “Room 12” talking of a “room full of victims.”

That is relayed to the acting Uvalde PD chief on the scene Lt. Mariano Pargas, who makes no audible comment.

Just outside the hallway, an officer in black uniform says, “If you want to start getting kids out, I can start jumping them,” but it is not clear what he is referring to or what happened next. Mendoza follows acting chief Pargas back in the hallway.

On Sunday, the city of Uvalde announced that Pargas had been placed on administrative leave “to investigate whether Lt. Pargas was responsible for taking command on May 24, what specific actions Lt. Pargas took to establish that command, and whether it was even feasible given all the agencies involved and other possible policy violations.”

 

[Keith_Indy]

seriously, did you really say that?

YES that is what the report and various videos state. It doesn't look like they have positive confirmation of victims inside that classroom until 12:11pm

So, even with this, someone tells Pargas something and he makes no audible comment. Did he hear and acknowledge it? NO

Should have been repeated and confirmed, maybe that would have lit a fire under their asses.

At 12:11 p.m. a dispatcher can be heard saying there is a child on the line from “Room 12” talking of a “room full of victims.”

That is relayed to the acting Uvalde PD chief on the scene Lt. Mariano Pargas, who makes no audible comment.

 

[Keith_Indy]

In both the ALEERT and Texas House reports, it is mentioned numerous times the lack of radio reception in the building.

School PD had radios that worked in the buildings, and had to carry a second radio to communicate with the Uvalde PD. Uvalde PD radios weren't reliable inside the building.

Here you can see an officer leaving the building to use his radio. Shortly after is where dispatch tells them they've received a call from inside the room.

 

[rooster]

In both the ALEERT and Texas House reports, it is mentioned numerous times the lack of radio reception in the building.

School PD had radios that worked in the buildings, and had to carry a second radio to communicate with the Uvalde PD. Uvalde PD radios weren't reliable inside the building.

Here you can see an officer leaving the building to use his radio. Shortly after is where dispatch tells them they've received a call from inside the room.

Keith if you would actually watch the ****ing videos with Audio instead of spouting off at the mouth you would clearly hear radio traffic with dispatch going on the entire time in the school.

Please stop with the Mis-information

 

[rooster]

YES that is what the report and various videos state. It doesn't look like they have positive confirmation of victims inside that classroom until 12:11pm

As I’ve pointed out they had confirmation that class was in session right after first contact. What more do you need? Do police have to see a body or can we infer what a logical person would?