Uvalde Texas Killing

[bobzilla]

All the calls begging for help. There are 3 noted on the timeline.



Still not clear that any of this information made it's way to the south end of the hallway.

This is another, they OUGHT to have known, they SHOULD have been told, or ASSUMED there were children/teachers in that room.

I'm not excusing any of what happened, or the many failures. Just trying to remain factual in this highly emotional thread.

If people are going to be incorrect about what facts are available from the report and video, or make suppositions that aren't supported by same, I will post what the report said.

But otherwise, say all you want about what they shoulda, woulda, coulda done.

Knowing what actually happened and why is far more important now, than satisfying ones ego that they would have stormed that room, or whatever.

We know what OUGHT to have happened according to the plans. And we know the results of that clusterfuck.

Yelling at the sky saying, WHY DIDN'T THEY BREACH SOONER, isn't gonna fix anything.


View attachment 212463

well this kills the narrative that he stopped shooting after the initial moments.

 

[Keith_Indy]

well this kills the narrative that he stopped shooting after the initial moments.

There was no narrative that said that…

 

[DadSmith]

Slain Uvalde teacher’s officer husband tried to save his wife but was detained, had gun taken away

Officer Ruiz attempted to storm the school after his wife, Eva Mireles, called him telling him she had been shot.

www.today.com

This is old news but I want to comment on the video inside it.

They talk about how it's their job to defend their students.
How can they defend their students against someone with a firearm if they don't have a firearm?
Some teachers who believe this are still dead set against firearms. It just doesn't make any sense.

Even 22lr pistols would be better than nothing at all.

 

[bobzilla]

There was no narrative that said that…

That is a lie. There were reports at one time that the reason the police chief was holding on for negotiations were because the shooting had stopped.

 

[Keith_Indy]

That is a lie. There were reports at one time that the reason the police chief was holding on for negotiations were because the shooting had stopped.

You say I'm lying, so you know that A) I saw such reports and B) I'm purposely stating that I don't. At best, you can say I'm misinformed, and should correct with proof, not vague statements.

Never saw that in the media, and I didn't see any sign of that narrative in this thread.

11:32:24 - 11:36:04 100+ rounds in the 2 classrooms
11:37:00 - 11:37:10 11 rounds (estimate) shooting at the officers

11:40:58 1 round
11:44:00 1 round

11:48:18 Ruiz states "She says she is shot"

12:21:08 4 rounds
12:50:03 breach

---

If you believed this was a barricaded shooter situation, and not an active shooter with injured victims in the classroom, what would you have done differently?

If there's a lone nut in a room shooting randomly, do you rush in, risking officers lives, or wait for the proper equipment?

I know in hindsight what they should have done. I believe future guidance may be to treat any shooter in a school as an active shooter, even if there's no victims in view.

But that still leaves a questions. What about a true hostage situation? Nutbag enters school, maybe kills several on the way in, but then holes up in a classroom with kids, but not shooting any more? Still an active shooter situation?

 

[bobzilla]

You say I'm lying, so you know that A) I saw such reports and B) I'm purposely stating that I don't. At best, you can say I'm misinformed, and should correct with proof, not vague statements.

Never saw that in the media, and I didn't see any sign of that narrative in this thread.

11:32:24 - 11:36:04 100+ rounds in the 2 classrooms
11:37:00 - 11:37:10 11 rounds (estimate) shooting at the officers

11:40:58 1 round
11:44:00 1 round

11:48:18 Ruiz states "She says she is shot"

12:21:08 4 rounds
12:50:03 breach

---

If you believed this was a barricaded shooter situation, and not an active shooter with injured victims in the classroom, what would you have done differently?

If there's a lone nut in a room shooting randomly, do you rush in, risking officers lives, or wait for the proper equipment?

I know in hindsight what they should have done. I believe future guidance may be to treat any shooter in a school as an active shooter, even if there's no victims in view.

But that still leaves a questions. What about a true hostage situation? Nutbag enters school, maybe kills several on the way in, but then holes up in a classroom with kids, but not shooting any more? Still an active shooter situation?

You go in. Period. Full stop. That's the training and lessons we learned from Columbine. They ignored and shat on them here.

 

[Destro]

If you believed this was a barricaded shooter situation, and not an active shooter with injured victims in the classroom, what would you have done differently?

If there's a lone nut in a room shooting randomly, do you rush in, risking officers lives, or wait for the proper equipment?

I know in hindsight what they should have done. I believe future guidance may be to treat any shooter in a school as an active shooter, even if there's no victims in view.

But that still leaves a questions. What about a true hostage situation? Nutbag enters school, maybe kills several on the way in, but then holes up in a classroom with kids, but not shooting any more? Still an active shooter situation?

I appreciate the conversation you are trying to have, even if nobody else wants to have it. There is a lot of nuance and it is not a discussion anyone here wants to have.

I see calls to "fire all the cops"



Of the "376" cops there, 16 included in that total were San Antonio SWAT, about 90 miles away.

SAPD arrived on scene at 1315hrs, the suspect was dead at 12:50hrs. Should they be fired too?

Or can we put that number at 360 now? (insert purple)

I would imagine the number of officers who were realistically in a position to change the outcome of the situation was probably in the low double digits. (still too many, but 20 doesn't quite hit the emotions like 376)

I try to remind myself when I read some of these hot takes, the context for the opinions are based on a combination of news reports and tactics/techniques in Die Hard and Under Siege

 

[Floki]

unfortunately this isnt the only occasion where LE failed to do their sworn duty. Look back at the bump stock sniper, police stack in the hall of the hotel while shots being fired.

There was another school shooting where the cop paced around outside the building with shots fired inside, i think he was charged.

There should be a dumpster full of badges turned in by now.

 

[JCSR]

 

[DadSmith]

 

[JCSR]

 

[BigRed]

View attachment 213807

Willfully.

Gore can go to Hell.

 

[thompal]

How do you now they knew? You're presenting an assumption without evidence.

And that's the whole issue with playing these coulda, woulda, shoulda games. We know what we know after the fact, and think that EVERYONE should have know that during.

The main breakdown after the first breach attempt was Chief Arredondo not exiting the building and setting up a command post. Everything after was a clusterfuck. You get no arguments from me about that.

There were almost 400 officers there, and some of them heard on their radios that kids were calling 911 from inside the room. Maybe they didn't ALL know, but at least some of them did.

 

[thompal]

Then just below that Chief Arredondo's thinking at the time.

Page 52/53

Except, that doesn't matter at all! If they believe that the bad guy had already shot everyone, then they knew that many/most of the students were gravely injured, and may have been saved by getting medical care.

By waiting over 70 minutes, they guaranteed that the "golden hour" had passed.

 

[rooster]

Principal was aware of security failures prior to shooting

Uvalde school district suspends Robb Elementary School principal

Mandy Gutierrez, principal of Robb Elementary School, was suspended with pay Monday, her attorney, Ricardo Cedillo, confirmed to ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

 

[rooster]

More video of officers in the hall talking about the door being unlocked

vanessathesigma on TikTok

#uvalde #uvaldestrong #uvaldeshooting #Texas #South #Southtexas #v #vanessatijerina #vst #justice #police #policeofficer #student #students #victim #victims #sad #sadstory #teacher #teachers #kid #kids #child #children #school #schoollife

www.tiktok.com

 

[dudley0]

He is saying I bet, not that it is. I see a subtle difference there.

But... if they thought it was unlocked why not take a shield and a few people and go see.

 

[rooster]

 

[Keith_Indy]

He is saying I bet, not that it is. I see a subtle difference there.

But... if they thought it was unlocked why not take a shield and a few people and go see.

You try the lock, the killer starts firing through door and walls. There’s already bullet holes and injured in the room opposite where the killer holed up. Do you try before or after you evacuate those classrooms?

I posted above about how SOP for breaching is if a door isn’t known to be unlocked you assume it’s locked. I DK how on point that is.

They had the equipment but it wasn’t gathered in one place (like a command post) quickly. Came into the building in drubs and drabs.

Command, communication and control were lacking.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Part and full time jobs pay more these days. Then there were how many rounds of COVID stimulus $$$