Why "Open Carry" when you can carry concealed?

[sj kahr k40]

Exactly why I carry a bug in my back pocket in a wallet holster. I like to think that when he asks for my wallet, he will be very surprized at what comes out.

So you think you can pull a bug and shoot someone with a gun pointed at you and more than likely finger on the trigger

Might want to rethink your tactics

 

[melensdad]

Today's TMJ4 - Local News - Video - Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint


Here is a link to a guy who got robbed with his own gun.. He even admits (according to the reporter) that the robber targeted him because he was open carrying..

This particular story has been hashed out here on INGO.

He was open carrying BECAUSE concealed carry is ILLEGAL. So his only legal method of carry was OPEN CARRY. The story is deeper than reported, I actually talked with the victim personally and reported it here on INGO to those who can dig up the thread.

This story shows that OC carries some risk, but it also shows HOW RARE it is for OC to become a target. We have 1 example of 1 person who has been robbed of his gun. We have 0 examples (because NONE exist) of people who OC who have been shot, let alone killed.

 

[rmcrob]

After having been absent from INGO for a year or so, this thread is a great comfort to me. Some of the names are different, but nothing really has changed, at least on this topic.

Thanks, guys.

 

[indyk]

hehe

I think at post 32 i asked this very same thing

got a few of these

9 of these


Got some Agains

Even one of these,

Then i searched and found that this has been brought up 3,987 times last year.


GO INGO!

 

[norman428]

After having been absent from INGO for a year or so, this thread is a great comfort to me. Some of the names are different, but nothing really has changed, at least on this topic.

Thanks, guys.

Actually, most of the names are the same too!
Besides the people who actually bring this topic up of-course.

In response to the story about being robed with your own firearm, I know many months back when I first started to OC, I wouldn't always carry with one in the chamber, (Please, No, I'm not bringing THAT debate up again) But I saw it as, If you somehow manage to get my gun from me, and you point it at me, Joke is on you when you pull the trigger. The look on the guys face when nothing happens would be priceless.

Im honestly shocked this thread has lasted this long. No lockdown yet?

 

[cbseniour]

These discussions do nothing more than turn those who believe in 2A against each other. In almost every thread I can recall, the OP sits back to watch the carnage.

If I'm ever in the situation where I walk into a convenience store and a BG has a gun pointed at the clerk, I hope to be OCing, which I believe will give me the fastest opportunity to draw. I draw faster OCing and I realize there are others who can draw just as fast either way, but I can't.

If I'm ever in the situation where I'm at the counter and the BG comes up behind me, I hope to be CCing since he will have the drop on me. I would hope to keep my gun concealed with the hope of him leaving or me getting the opportunity to end the situation.

Either way, the law gives me a choice and it's a choice I desire to keep no matter what someone else may think is best for me. Feel free to carry any way you want and I'll support you.

The wisdom of the ages comes from Que.
Kudoos.

 

[Indy317]

Please comb through the FBI crime data and find me JUST ONE example of a citizen open carrying a gun who has ever been targeted in the way you suggest. I'll save you a bunch of time, its never happened.

There are two such examples. One is somewhat old now, and has always been questioned because it was right around the time before the internet really became an archive for everything. No one could really prove it without likely pulling some microfilm.

The second incident is likely over a year old. It involves a Wisconsin (I think) man who OCed. Even though he admits himself he felt that his OCing caused him to be a target, some OCers now attack his belief because it doesn't support what they want others to believe.

I never understood the mentality by OCers that they could never, ever be a target of a crime. It isn't just getting shot first, it is being followed home with your house marked as a target for a future burglary. It could be that some folks figure if you have one gun on your person, maybe it is worth it to bust the window on your car to see if maybe you left one in there.

People have been killed for $200 shoes.....shoes. Why can't people who happen to be OCing be killed for their $300-$1,000 pistol?

OCing can make one a target, just like CCing (the person not able to see the person armed) may cause one to become a target. OC is still in an infant stage to me, but if more and more people continue to OC, we will see if there is an increase in OCers who get robbed soley for their handgun. People are getting their cars broken into because they have nothing more than suction cup marks on their windshield. Criminals don't care about breaking into a car belonging to someone else. This is also why I don't put gun stickers on my car. Criminals are going around on trash day, especially after holidays, around Superbowl time, etc., making note of who has an empty box for a 50" flat screen sitting outside. OCing paints one as a gun owner in one of the following catagories: Poor (Hi-Point), Middle Class (Glock), or Rich (HK)

To each their own, but I'm not going to tell folks that OCing couldn't possibly have any negative effects upon them or their property.

 

[Indy317]

Do you guys think you have the element of surprise when someone has a gun out and in your face? I've been in that situation and believe me you have no element of surprise!

And OCing somehow makes it so someone can out draw a drawn gun? I don't see how CC or OC will help anyone with a "gun out" and in their face.

 

[bassplayrguy]

And OCing somehow makes it so someone can out draw a drawn gun? I don't see how CC or OC will help anyone with a "gun out" and in their face.

This is the whole point!!!! Neither is better. Carry how you are comfortable, just carry. You can be a victim either way. Surprise element is for the offensive, not the defensive.

 

[sj kahr k40]

And OCing somehow makes it so someone can out draw a drawn gun? I don't see how CC or OC will help anyone with a "gun out" and in their face.

Where did I say that^
The surprise reason is often used as a reason to CC, I was pointing out the fallacy of that argument!

 

[Indy317]

Find some where visible armed clerks get shot!

It's not about element of surprise when you OC it's about deterrence....

There are plenty of videos of clerks pulling guns in a manner in which the bad guy sees the gun. Guess what, some of those still have the bad guy exchanging fire with the clerk(s). So we have clerks who weren't carrying or CCing, they then are OCing. But they just aren't OCing a holstered weapon, these clerks are now OCing the most tactical way possible: By holding the weapon in their hands, at the ready, aimed at the bad guys. Even then, not all bad guys back down. What kind of deterrence is there if one is OCing by holding the gun in their hand and pointing it at the criminal, but the criminal refuses to back down?

Yawn. 70 posts and this thread hasn't moved past the same tired refuted points.

And yet for some reason, you are drawn back to this thread like a fly to a flame.

We have 0 examples (because NONE exist) of people who OC who have been shot, let alone killed.

I'm pretty sure there have been store clerks who are OCing, gun in hand, pointed at the robbers, who have been shot. Or are there some sort of rules that says if one is CCing, they can never then becoming a OCer even if they pull, display, hold, and aim the gun in full view of the robber?

I will try to find a video of a clerk who was CCing, or not carrying at all, who gets robbed and goes to OCing, with gun in hand, pointed at criminal...yet criminal refuses to back down and even engages in a gun fight. Not sure if I will find one specifically of a clerk being shot.

Here is a video for you. At eight seconds, the clerk goes from no carry to OC. Instead of the armed robbers instantly fleeing, the robbers hang around, engage in a firefight, for about another four to five seconds. OCing didn't do much to deter the robbers in this instance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOdLh7wPGdQ

 

[sj kahr k40]

snip, I'm not going to tell folks that OCing couldn't possibly have any negative effects upon them or their property.

When did anyone say that^

 

[Indy317]

Surprise element is for the offensive, not the defensive.

I disagree. The element of surprise can go both ways.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Indy, there is a big difference once the robber is committed, now find one where the clerk was OCing a weapon before the robbers pulled a gun

 

[Indy317]

When did anyone say that^

Here:

Please comb through the FBI crime data and find me JUST ONE example of a citizen open carrying a gun who has ever been targeted in the way you suggest. I'll save you a bunch of time, its never happened.

To me, I read this statement as "It won't happen, never ever ever ever." Yea, I guess technically Melensdad never said it couldn't happen, or won't happen in the future, but how I read that comment is that an OCer shouldn't ever ever ever worry about being a target, because it has never happened...according to the FBI at least.

 

[Indy317]

Indy, there is a big difference once the robber is committed.....

Why? I don't understand what would be any different. Intended victim is now an OCer, yet not all bad guys and girls will be deterred. Why are we to think they would be deterred if the person had the gun on their hip when they aren't even deterred when the gun is pointed at them?

 

[youngda9]

And yet for some reason, you are drawn back to this thread like a fly to

There, fixed it for ya !

 

[ATM]

Same , different day.

Nothing new to see here folks.

Many who feel the need to conceal are just trying to help those poor OCers who obviously haven't thought about getting shot first or giving up the "element of surprise".

They seem shocked that many of us have already thought about it, researched, and discussed the options more than they have and still choose it as a viable carry option.

Not just because we "can", but because it makes good sense.

When we defend the reasoned choice over and over again, rather than ignore the sage advice to just cover it up and blend in, it may seem like an argument to convince others to open carry. It isn't.

This debate is generally a very 1-sided defense brought about by those who don't like or don't understand anyone wanting to OC or carry differently than they do.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Why? I don't understand what would be any different. Intended victim is now an OCer, yet not all bad guys and girls will be deterred. Why are we to think they would be deterred if the person had the gun on their hip when they aren't even deterred when the gun is pointed at them?

Because the BG is terrified at his point, they haven't planned on resistance and panic, if they know that a guy with a gun is in there they will more than likely pick another softer target, why face a known armed person when there is another stop and rob 2 blocks away?

If deterrence isn't a factor then why do cops driver marked cars and wear uniforms, there jobs would be a lot easier if they didn't

 

[norman428]

Here is a video for you. At eight seconds, the clerk goes from no carry to OC. Instead of the armed robbers instantly fleeing, the robbers hang around, engage in a firefight, for about another four to five seconds. OCing didn't do much to deter the robbers in this instance.

This video is funny, scary but funny.

Ya'll didn't know gangster grip increases accuracy?

LOL Clearly people untrained in how firearms work.

Anyone else notice that the robber that dives for the bottom, who would have been the last one out, Didn't have a round chambered? He has to chamber one before returning fire.
Criminal fail.