Vaccine coercion/bribery

[SheepDog4Life]

Do you believe unintended consequences could happen with novel technologies in the human body?

Absolutely, but in my analogy, a "glitch" in the file could definitely produce a totally ****ed up impeller blade... but not a complete water pump.

Gotta make sure no flies in the molecular transporter:

 

[phylodog]

Why couldn't they just make a traditional vaccine for wuwho flu?

Why did they need to roll out nRNA to the masses, why not roll it out on a smaller scale first?

Science says herd immunity at around 70%, why are they hell bent on 100% vaccine compliance?

Why are natural antibodies not as good as the vaccine?

Why are they constantly reversing themselves on their recommendations? (I am quite sure we have contingency plans, but the flip flops prove they are not following them.)

Feel free to add questions...

Because they are talking out of both sides of their heads. They want some people to resist. Convince Granny that if the grandkids don’t get vaccinated they don’t care about her getting sick. Keep the family separate/divided. Anything and everything they can do to **** this country up they are doing.

 

[rooster]

Why couldn't they just make a traditional vaccine for wuwho flu?

Why did they need to roll out nRNA to the masses, why not roll it out on a smaller scale first?

Science says herd immunity at around 70%, why are they hell bent on 100% vaccine compliance?

Why are natural antibodies not as good as the vaccine?

Why are they constantly reversing themselves on their recommendations? (I am quite sure we have contingency plans, but the flip flops prove they are not following them.)

Feel free to add questions...

There are inactived virus vaccines but they are not approved here in the US

Vaccines – COVID19 Vaccine Tracker

covid19.trackvaccines.org

 

[Ingomike]

Absolutely, but in my analogy, a "glitch" in the file could definitely produce a totally ****ed up impeller blade... but not a complete water pump.

Gotta make sure no flies in the molecular transporter:

Initially your metaphor worked but this far it fails. It seems to me a better metaphor would be the mixing of chemicals and unintended consequences. But this really is out of my experiences...

 

[Ingomike]

Why couldn't they just make a traditional vaccine for wuwho flu?

Why did they need to roll out nRNA to the masses, why not roll it out on a smaller scale first?

Science says herd immunity at around 70%, why are they hell bent on 100% vaccine compliance?

Why are natural antibodies not as good as the vaccine?

Why are they constantly reversing themselves on their recommendations? (I am quite sure we have contingency plans, but the flip flops prove they are not following them.)

Feel free to add questions...

Here is my answer in part for the big pharma angle.

Big pharma has been working on the mRNA for near 20 years, they were getting close to a roll out but what specific condition to target? My understanding was chemotherapy was the top choice before the emergence of wuwho flu. This series of events led to an opportunity to roll out the mRNA with a laundry list of bonus benefits. Those benefits include the government buying massive amounts of the product, and a huge trial population, all while being granted legal immunity.

What a trifecta!

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Why couldn't they just make a traditional vaccine for wuwho flu?

They did... both J&J and AstroZeneca are adenovirus-based vaccines that have been used for 30+ years. They are effective but less so than the mRNA ones. China is rumored to have tried an attenuated live virus vaccine that was worse than no vaccine at all. Worldwide, there were literally hundreds of attempts that either failed to be effective or worse.

Why did they need to roll out nRNA to the masses, why not roll it out on a smaller scale first?

Phase III trial. Phased priority roll-outs. Israeli results for 600,000 individuals. Now, what a billion worldwide? Voluntary vaccinations... are you implying the vaccines should have been withheld from those who wanted them?

Science says herd immunity at around 70%, why are they hell bent on 100% vaccine compliance?

Politics, power and money.

Why are natural antibodies not as good as the vaccine?

Has anyone said this? The only thing I've seen is a mandate to wait 90-days post symptoms for those who want it also.

Why are they constantly reversing themselves on their recommendations? (I am quite sure we have contingency plans, but the flip flops prove they are not following them.)

Because Fauci et al are arrogant *******s who can't admit that they don't know what they don't know, and should have at every opportunity been transparent that what they formulated was based on incomplete knowledge and understanding... and what that was... that would in fact change over time. That arrogance led to what they considered "noble lies" that were actually just plan manipulation and wrecking balls to public trust.

And, battle plans only last until the battle starts... then they change.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Initially your metaphor worked but this far it fails. It seems to me a better metaphor would be the mixing of chemicals and unintended consequences. But this really is out of my experiences...

Ok, then, mixing chemicals you can end up with something of a surprise if you're not careful, or contamination, etc. and it can be something dangerous.

But, you're not going to accidentally make nitroglycerin instead of aspirin because very key ingredients are missing.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Is “false disinformation” a double negative?

non-binary

 

[Ingomike]

They did... both J&J and AstroZeneca are adenovirus-based vaccines that have been used for 30+ years. They are effective but less so than the mRNA ones. China is rumored to have tried an attenuated live virus vaccine that was worse than no vaccine at all. Worldwide, there were literally hundreds of attempts that either failed to be effective or worse.

Phase III trial. Phased priority roll-outs. Israeli results for 600,000 individuals. Now, what a billion worldwide? Voluntary vaccinations... are you implying the vaccines should have been withheld from those who wanted them?


Politics, power and money.


Has anyone said this? The only thing I've seen is a mandate to wait 90-days post symptoms for those who want it also.


Because Fauci et al are arrogant *******s who can't admit that they don't know what they don't know, and should have at every opportunity been transparent that what they formulated was based on incomplete knowledge and understanding... and what that was... that would in fact change over time. That arrogance led to what they considered "noble lies" that were actually just plan manipulation and wrecking balls to public trust.

And, battle plans only last until the battle starts... then they change.

The vaccines should have been more throughly vetted before rollout. But politics "Trumped" that. There never should have been a political timetable to push. You know, the one Trump pushed for reelection that big pharma sandbagged to help Biden. Those conditions are not fertle ground for success.

Antibodies are not widely accepted as a substitute for the vaccine.

While I can agree with the battle plans statement for wars, the science and the mitigation steps do not change the way we have seen them change. The CDC and others have science based contingency plans that have not been followed because of the political connections to the science .

 

[jamil]

They did... both J&J and AstroZeneca are adenovirus-based vaccines that have been used for 30+ years. They are effective but less so than the mRNA ones. China is rumored to have tried an attenuated live virus vaccine that was worse than no vaccine at all. Worldwide, there were literally hundreds of attempts that either failed to be effective or worse.

The Novovax offering uses similar biotech as the flu vaccine. It's not mRna. It's also said to be more effective than the others against the common variants, including delta variant.

Phase III trial. Phased priority roll-outs. Israeli results for 600,000 individuals. Now, what a billion worldwide? Voluntary vaccinations... are you implying the vaccines should have been withheld from those who wanted them?

Probably should watch the South Park episode.

BTW, the question is puzzling. How do you draw that as a natural conclusion?

Has anyone said this? The only thing I've seen is a mandate to wait 90-days post symptoms for those who want it also.

Maybe you should have googled that first. The google-approved sources say pretty much the same thing: You should get the vaccine even if you have recovered from the disease because natural immunity is not enough. They've been saying this since the vaccine came out.

Because Fauci et al are arrogant *******s who can't admit that they don't know what they don't know, and should have at every opportunity been transparent that what they formulated was based on incomplete knowledge and understanding... and what that was... that would in fact change over time. That arrogance led to what they considered "noble lies" that were actually just plan manipulation and wrecking balls to public trust.

And, battle plans only last until the battle starts... then they change.

I suspect a more sinister motive. They say something, and then TPTB decide that if they say something else, they can apply a better public manipulation. This constant flip-flopping more obviously points to narrative control than just simply being arrogant and ignorant. The initial mask statements overridden by subsequent flip-flopping, and then later admitting that it was a lie to manipulate public behavior, is a pretty solid pointer to the motive. It's fair to suspect that Fauci hasn't changed his regard for public manipulation.

 

[jamil]

non-binary

"false" is a binary. the prefix "dis" is a binary. So "false disinformation" would be the same inverting it, so it's "NOT disinformation. That's a binary.

 

[jamil]

The vaccines should have been more throughly vetted before rollout. But politics "Trumped" that. There never should have been a political timetable to push. You know, the one Trump pushed for reelection that big pharma sandbagged to help Biden. Those conditions are not fertle ground for success.

Antibodies are not widely accepted as a substitute for the vaccine.

While I can agree with the battle plans statement for wars, the science and the mitigation steps do not change the way we have seen them change. The CDC and others have science based contingency plans that have not been followed because of the political connections to the science .

More testing might have revealed more about the blood clotting. (not that they didn't know, it's been in the literature about mrna coronavirus vaccines since at least 2018. Also, more testing would likely have revealed that the immunity wanes in 6 months for at least the Pfizer shot.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

"false" is a binary. the prefix "dis" is a binary. So "false disinformation" would be the same inverting it, so it's "NOT disinformation. That's a binary.

not the way I identify it

 

[jamil]

not the way I identify it

The proper way to say that is "Logic is a tool of the white male patriarchy used to maintain dominance over marginalized people."

 

[SheepDog4Life]

The Novovax offering uses similar biotech as the flu vaccine. It's not mRna. It's also said to be more effective than the others against the common variants, including delta variant.

IIRC, that's the one @HoughMade was in the trials for... but as best I can tell, not currently available for the masses.

Probably should watch the South Park episode.

I'll look it up... I'm anti-Hulu, so I acquire SP episodes from, ummm, cough, alternate channels. When they do social commentary pieces, their satire is razor-sharp... so I'll pre-emptively add it to my banned/censored SP episodes stash.

BTW, the question is puzzling. How do you draw that as a natural conclusion?

Large scale trial, 1-2 million people for a year or two... means the other 100-150 million in the US who wanted and got the shots as soon is it was their turn would be waiting until 2022/early 2023?

I would consider that "withholding".

Maybe you should have googled that first. The google-approved sources say pretty much the same thing: You should get the vaccine even if you have recovered from the disease because natural immunity is not enough. They've been saying this since the vaccine came out.

I should have... things have changed since I last looked... but it appears the study to support this only came out recently.

I suspect a more sinister motive. They say something, and then TPTB decide that if they say something else, they can apply a better public manipulation. This constant flip-flopping more obviously points to narrative control than just simply being arrogant and ignorant. The initial mask statements overridden by subsequent flip-flopping, and then later admitting that it was a lie to manipulate public behavior, is a pretty solid pointer to the motive. It's fair to suspect that Fauci hasn't changed his regard for public manipulation.

**** Fauci and the horse he road in on!

 

[jamil]

IIRC, that's the one @HoughMade was in the trials for... but as best I can tell, not currently available for the masses.

Not yet. They're expected to apply for emergency use end of 3rd quarter. Assuming they'll get it they wouldn't be delivering vaccines until late 4th quarter. I've been trying to decide if I want to take a gamble on their stock, betting that they'll get approval. Would be a very nice upside if they get it, and not a terrible downside if they don't. They just got approval from the European commission to purchase up to 200M doses. That news is driving their stock up 20% today. Kinda sucks because I had pretty much decided to buy in at $185. That's shot to hell today.

I'll look it up... I'm anti-Hulu, so I acquire SP episodes from, ummm, cough, alternate channels. When they do social commentary pieces, their satire is razor-sharp... so I'll pre-emptively add it to my banned/censored SP episodes stash.

I'll just say. It hits the sensitive parts of TPTB.

Large scale trial, 1-2 million people for a year or two... means the other 100-150 million in the US who wanted and got the shots as soon is it was their turn would be waiting until 2022/early 2023?

I would consider that "withholding".

You're assuming a position that one might not hold. For example, I'm of the mind that when pharma is in trials, anyone who wants it should be able to get it as long as they agree to assume all responsibility for what happens. If people want to risk their lives on experimental stuff, I don't have a problem with that, but I also don't want to pay for it. So I'd apply that to the covid vaccines as well. Of course I would oppose any social mandates to make people take a drug in this phase. Employers could not require it.

I also think they should have done more testing before government bought all those doses that I had to help pay for. Would have been nice to know about some of the vaccine related things that we know about now.

I should have... things have changed since I last looked... but it appears the study to support this only came out recently.

No. They've said this since the vaccines came out. And they've kept saying it. It's been consistent. There is not a time when the CDC or other PTB have said yer good to go with natural immunity, despite some studies that suggest that's not correct. No authority accepts natural immunity as a substitute for being fully vaccinated.

**** Fauci and the horse he road in on!

Agreed. Except it's not the horse's fault the rider is a lying ********er.

 

[bobzilla]

I hear you about the take-downs... not helpful in building trust.

Here's my take on the situation... prior to delta, most of the major vaccines were highly effective in preventing hospitalizations and nearly "perfect" in eliminating death among the vaccinated.

Israeli data indicates that both the delta variant AND the time passed since vaccination have lowered that and that they are doing or leaning toward a third booster shot for those over 60.

Depending upon the definition of "elderly", and who knows how Delta affects it, but the "elderly" are 100 to 1000 times more likely to die than healthy 20-29 year olds.

So if Delta and time since vaccination lower fatality say by 95% instead of near 100%, that means the vaccinated "elderly" would be 5-50 times more likely to die than unvacinnated young/healthy.

This in no way refutes what you're saying might be happening, but means without age demographics, it's not possible to say.

Also, it is far too soon to rule out that declining antibody titres might hit the "magic" band or range that unlock ADE, just that I'm not seeing anything that definitively indicates that's happening.

I do need to see if there is any public data of how the phase III trial group is fairing now almost a year post vaccination.

And again we are completely ignoring those with the natural antibodies and their resistance to all of this. It’s as if people have never had it and you either are vaccinated or not. Wtf?

 

[rooster]

And again we are completely ignoring those with the natural antibodies and their resistance to all of this. It’s as if people have never had it and you either are vaccinated or not. Wtf?

If we add those who have developed antibodies to those who are vaccinated then we are most likely well above anyone’s initial estimates for hers immunity. This is a problem for TPTB.

 

[OkieGirl]

If you believe the CDC, the vaccinated are now the Super Spreaders. This is why they want the vaccinated to also be masking, because the jab is a therapeutic to help that individual to NOT have symptoms while infected.

Breakthrough Infections (Link is to the CDC's publication from 07/30/2021)

Another fun fact for all those "get the jab" folks...the science (that you keep thumping over other peoples heads) is emerging that indicates THE HUMAN IMMUNE SYSTEM not only works, but will actually remember this infection and protect you from the SARS FAMILY OF VIRUSES, see link to Emory University study published two weeks ago...

Covid Survivors Immunity Article

From the Emroy Article:
Recovered COVID-19 patients retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, suggests a recent Emory University study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far. The findings have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine development for coronaviruses.
Researchers found that not only did the immune response increase with disease severity, but also with each decade of age regardless of disease severity, suggesting that there are additional unknown factors influencing age-related differences in COVID-19 responses.

In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.

“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”

Ahmed says investigators were surprised to see that convalescent participants also displayed increased immunity against common human coronaviruses as well as SARS-CoV-1, a close relative of the current coronavirus. The study suggests that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.

 

[Ark]

It's all about forcing people to get another taxpayer-funded booster shot. And then another. And then another.

Turning formerly healthy people into eternal Pfizer subscription service customers.