To Mask or Not to Mask?

[bwframe]

But masks...

Bloomington journalists test positive for COVID-19 after witnessing federal executions

The Bureau of Prisons chose not to inform staff or conduct contact tracing.

www.idsnews.com

 

[JettaKnight]

But masks...

Bloomington journalists test positive for COVID-19 after witnessing federal executions

The Bureau of Prisons chose not to inform staff or conduct contact tracing.

www.idsnews.com

Good reminder.

Wearing a mask doesn't guarantee protection, just like carrying a gun doesn't guarantee protection.

Go gotta be smart about where you go and who you're with.

 

[CampingJosh]

I've heard that the regular flu that kills 10 of thousands a year is virtually non existent this year...
Many maskers have argued that it's due to the effect of hand washing and mask use.
So, once we get covid licked... do you want to mandate that masks are a permanent fashion accessory for the entire population?
I mean, it will prevent a dangerous situation going forward for the flu...
Where do we stop?

I've never wanted to mandate masks. I just pointed out that the argument Bug was making is a bad argument.

Flu doesn't seem to have the same pre-symptomatic spread, so it's not quite the same thing. I wouldn't mind if, for example, nursing homes and other areas with high risk people required masks during flu outbreaks.

Shannon Watts apparently believes your ability to aquire and possess firearms 'creates a dangerous situation for others'

Do you acquiesce to others mandating such controls on that behavior as they desire or would you prefer that the stipulation a behavior you (ostensibly) support 'creates a dangerous situation for others' actually be proven before attempts are made to restrict your personal freedom

I am in no way required to conduct my personal affairs so you feel safe, which is manifestly what you wish to require

Ad hom much? That's "manifestly" not what I wish to require. I still have never argued for a mask mandate. I've only ever argued that people should wear masks in some situations because the best evidence shows that can reduce the chances of spreading infections.

I can point out that your argument is deeply flawed without being a statist.

Covid does not rise to the level of threat of any of the examples you posted. It is a significant threat to those who are high risk and those people are free to take whatever precautions they feel appropriate.

I did use extreme examples. But I'm still going to push back a bit. Neither bullets being fired in the streets nor mustard gas self-replicate and become transmissible.

A whole lot more people in the U.S. have died in the last few months from Covid than have died from mass shootings in the U.S. ever (excluding, perhaps, the mass shootings of American Indians perpetrated by governments).

But Bug's argument was that his freedom can't be limited because his actions might endanger someone else. I was simply providing a few examples of that being flat wrong.

You sound as if you agree with mask mandates.

Consider this possibility. Covid isn’t going to be “licked”. I’m kinda thinking that it’s naive to believe it will be. So if we can’t get rid of it, do we keep doing what we’re doing now? Endless mitigations, mandates, lockdowns, blaming, shaming? What if mask wearing weakens our immune systems?

Still haven't ever favored mask mandates.

I don't expect Covid to disappear, but I do expect that in a few months most of the people I might be around who are at high risk will have had the opportunity for vaccination. That should significantly reduce the numbers of severe cases and deaths. We'll see then what mitigations might still be needed; I don't expect it to be masks forever. That doesn't mean masks are a bad idea for now.

Have you seen evidence that mask wearing weakens immune systems? In everything, better information should lead to changes in action.

 

[phylodog]

A whole lot more people in the U.S. have died in the last few months from Covid than have died from mass shootings in the U.S. ever (excluding, perhaps, the mass shootings of American Indians perpetrated by governments).

Have they? What about all of the people who died of other causes but were labeled as Covid for monetary and fear mongering reasons? There are no valid numbers out there with which to base a reasonable response.

 

[BugI02]

Regarding the absence of flu... I'll repeat what I said some time ago, IMO it's mostly due to "stay home if you're sick".

Don't go to work...

Don't go to school...

Don't go and visit elderly relatives...

Stay at home when you're sick, keep your flu germs to yourself, and the flu almost disappears in one season.

Gee, why hasn't the CDC been advising us of this for decades?

I'm still waiting for someone on your side of this argument to tell me - just exactly what is it about the characteristics of WuVid that make it immune to interventions that ostensibly crush the prevalence of influenza

Similar virion size, similar route of infection, only slightly higher R0, why are mitigations that are believed to be so effective against influenza powerless against the spread of WuVid?

 

[DadSmith]

Guy's I'm wearing a mask now. It's cold outside and the mask i use is an environmental mask with a vent. Sure helps my lungs out. Cold weather doesn't get along with my lungs.

 

[phylodog]

I'm still waiting for someone on your side of this argument to tell me - just exactly what is it about the characteristics of WuVid that make it immune to interventions that ostensibly crush the prevalence of influenza

Similar virion size, similar route of infection, only slightly higher R0, why are mitigations that are believed to be so effective against influenza powerless against the spread of WuVid?

The others aren't spread by media coverage and financial incentives.

 

[BugI02]

The others aren't spread by media coverage and financial incentives.

Bullseye, ten ring

 

[bwframe]

...What about all of the people who died of other causes but were labeled as Covid for monetary and fear mongering reasons? There are no valid numbers out there with which to base a reasonable response.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I'm still waiting for someone on your side of this argument to tell me - just exactly what is it about the characteristics of WuVid that make it immune to interventions that ostensibly crush the prevalence of influenza

Similar virion size, similar route of infection, only slightly higher R0, why are mitigations that are believed to be so effective against influenza powerless against the spread of WuVid?

Hmmm... I must have missed where you asked during a break from these threads. So, no more waiting.... IMO, two reasons, both indicate COVID is WAY more likely to spread than the flu:

1. COVID is much more contagious PRE-symptom than the flu and often has a MUCH more gradual onset of symptoms than the flu. Might just be me, but everytime I've got the flu, the time from "I feel like I'm coming down with something" to "crap I'm sick" is measured in hours... like 3-4. COVID can be a day or days.

2. COVID has a MUCH higher R0 than the flu. Note that R0 is logarithmic... and the difference is flu (H1N1) 1.4-1.6 versus COVID is estimated at as high as 5.7 but generally thought to be 3.5-3.7. Even the "low" estimates of 2.4-2.6, measures that cut exposure in half only reduce COVID to 1.2-1.3 which means INCREASING cases. Knock flu in half and 0.7-0.8 is DECREASING cases.

What Is R0? Gauging Contagious Infections

The R0 for COVID-19 is a median of 5.7, according to a study published online in Emerging Infectious Diseases. That’s about double an earlier R0 estimate of 2.2 to 2.7

 

[SheepDog4Life]

The others aren't spread by media coverage and financial incentives.

Redditors are artificially driving up the R0 of covid?

Darn those DAS!

 

[BugI02]

Looked back in late Feb early March to head off any complaint that widespread behavioral modification mandates changed things. Looking at NIH sources in academic papers, one dealing with Italy and one dealing with parts of China, only seeing R0
range of 2.4 to 3.1

Cite for anything above 3ish?

 

[jamil]

Still haven't ever favored mask mandates.

I don't expect Covid to disappear, but I do expect that in a few months most of the people I might be around who are at high risk will have had the opportunity for vaccination. That should significantly reduce the numbers of severe cases and deaths. We'll see then what mitigations might still be needed; I don't expect it to be masks forever. That doesn't mean masks are a bad idea for now.

Have you seen evidence that mask wearing weakens immune systems? In everything, better information should lead to changes in action.

I haven't. If mask wearing has the side effect of limiting the spread of other similarly spread viruses, will the long term use of mask weaken our immune systems against those diseases? It's a reasonable question to ask.

But, I'm not confident that such information would be disseminated honestly. People like Fauci, for example, behave as if they think that people need to be fed information that manipulates behavior.

 

[nonobaddog]

 

[mbkintner]

At the risk of drawing fire ....

Any recommendations on a reliable source (Indianapolis area or online) to purchase a quality N95 or KN95 mask that isn't counterfeit? I have a relative that'll be taking a flight soon and that's pretty much the one situation I'd like to see a mask used. I only need two (there and back) or a small pack.

 

[Sylvain]

At the risk of drawing fire ....

Any recommendations on a reliable source (Indianapolis area or online) to purchase a quality N95 or KN95 mask that isn't counterfeit? I have a relative that'll be taking a flight soon and that's pretty much the one situation I'd like to see a mask used. I only need two (there and back) or a small pack.

You can find KN95 masks online very cheap but they usually come straight from China so it might take a while to get there.

It depends how soon in the flight.

You might also check with your airline if they have any specific rules regarding masks.

I know some airlines make N95 (or FFP2 and above) mandatory during the flight but don't allow masks with valves.
I think you can still cover your mask (with valve) with a surgical mask in order to comply.

You might need more than one mask per flight, depending on the duration of the flight.
Especially if food will be served.

You will also need hand sanitizer if you're going to manipulate your mask(s).

 

[HoughMade]

...I know some airlines make N95 (or FFP2 and above) mandatory during the flight but don't allow masks with valves.
I think you can still cover your mask (with valve) with a surgical mask in order to comply.

You might need more than one mask per flight, depending on the duration of the flight.
Especially if food will be served.

You will also need hand sanitizer if you're going to manipulate your mask(s).

Um...not if its a domestic flight. Masks yes. All the other stuff- only if you want to.

 

[Sylvain]

Um...not if its a domestic flight. Masks yes. All the other stuff- only if you want to.

I'm just pointing out that some airlines have specific rules.

I think some also don't allow cloth masks anymore.

 

[nonobaddog]

I'm just pointing out that some airlines have specific rules.

I think some also don't allow cloth masks anymore.

That is just the airlines trying to show they are slightly smarter than walmart.

 

[BigRed]

We are what, about 10 months into this scamdemic?

I have yet to wear a mask.

Not gonna happen.