The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[jamil]

The fleet is still really new but how they handle old age will be interesting to watch. When my Silverado has 200,000 miles on it, it kept running just fine. When that F150 gets up there, wonder what the resale value will be when, to keep it running, the new owner has to spend 10’s of thousands of dollars on a replacement battery.

I don't know about Ford. But it's a problem. Some say their batteries will last 100K miles. It's going to the junkyard after that because no one is buying a truck with that many miles that they have to put in $20K or so for a battery.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I don't know about Ford. But it's a problem. Some say their batteries will last 100K miles. It's going to the junkyard after that because no one is buying a truck with that many miles that they have to put in $20K or so for a battery.

Agreed. My old gas truck is still worth keeping on the road, even with a few repairs.

ETA: This is why I’ve said that if/when I do buy my first EV, it’ll be a lease.

 

[jamil]

Agreed. My old gas truck is still worth keeping on the road, even with a few repairs.

ETA: This is why I’ve said that if/when I do buy my first EV, it’ll be a lease.

I think EV's are cool. I also think EV's are not for me to own/lease. I like to buy a vehicle and keep it til the expense of keeping it exceeds its value. I have a couple of new/new-ish vehicles. Never say never, but I expect those are the last new ones I'll buy. If they last like other vehicles I've owned, I'll probably be too old to drive by the time they die.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think EV's are cool. I also think EV's are not for me to own/lease. I like to buy a vehicle and keep it til the expense of keeping it exceeds its value. I have a couple of new/new-ish vehicles. Never say never, but I expect those are the last new ones I'll buy. If they last like other vehicles I've owned, I'll probably be too old to drive by the time they die.

We tend to buy new and then drive them until they‘re not worth much or die. The Malibu is getting long in the tooth and it’s going to be time to replace it in a couple years. Fortunately, I think gassers will still be available then so we won’t be faced with the EV or nothing decision.

I could see buying one for a “go to town and back, errand runner” but it won’t be our “taking a trip” vehicle, not at today’s tech.

 

[Ingomike]

When that F150 gets up there, wonder what the resale value will be when, to keep it running, the new owner has to spend 10’s of thousands of dollars on a replacement battery.

I suspect the vehicles will discarded as it will be cost prohibitive to replace the battery. It also creates a situation where there will be no decent used vehicles for those that want them or cannot afford new vehicles. But fits right in with the manufacturers desire to control the market and government oversight of it all.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I suspect the vehicles will discarded as it will be cost prohibitive to replace the battery. It also creates a situation where there will be no decent used vehicles for those that want them or cannot afford new vehicles. But fits right in with the manufacturers desire to control the market and government oversight of it all.

Never forget, the leftists don’t want us owning personal cars/trucks anyway. Drying up the lower end market is probably a feature of the new system they find very desirable.

 

[jamil]

We tend to buy new and then drive them until they‘re not worth much or die. The Malibu is getting long in the tooth and it’s going to be time to replace it in a couple years. Fortunately, I think gassers will still be available then so we won’t be faced with the EV or nothing decision.

I could see buying one for a “go to town and back, errand runner” but it won’t be our “taking a trip” vehicle, not at today’s tech.

I think a daily driver use case for EV's works for a lot of people. I don't think it works for me. If I were driving to/from work every day across the bridge, it's a long drive, and maybe I could justify it. But I don't daily drive anything. Gas is most practical for us.

We have a truck and a jeep and together they cover all our use cases we need. Truck works great for hauling/towing and other utility uses. Jeep is for everything else.

 

[jamil]

I suspect the vehicles will discarded as it will be cost prohibitive to replace the battery. It also creates a situation where there will be no decent used vehicles for those that want them or cannot afford new vehicles. But fits right in with the manufacturers desire to control the market and government oversight of it all.

I think if all were left to "organic" growth of EV's, ICE would be around for at least dozens of years. Tesla made EV's practical for limited uses. The battery end of life issue is a problem for all the reasons stated. I don't think the current model of usage is very practical.

Someone on INGO, don't remember who, suggested having standardized battery packs that you just swap out. I guess it would be similar to those Blue Rhino LP containers you can swap out for your grill.

But I don't think the distribution system would be very practical. These battery packs are very large. I think these stations would have to be huge. But it's an interesting idea. You don't own the battery. You just pay for how many miles you put on it before turning it in for a freshly charged one.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

But I don't think the distribution system would be very practical. These battery packs are very large. I think these stations would have to be huge. But it's an interesting idea. You don't own the battery. You just pay for how many miles you put on it before turning it in for a freshly charged one.

The problem is how the batteries are packaged in the vehicle. From what I’ve seen, they’re pretty well interwoven into the architecture. The car companies will have to come up with some sort of standardized pack package for this to ever work. Not to mention how the pack would be removed and inserted and transported to/from the charging stations.

 

[jamil]

The problem is how the batteries are packaged in the vehicle. From what I’ve seen, they’re pretty well interwoven into the architecture. The car companies will have to come up with some sort of standardized pack package for this to ever work. Not to mention how the pack would be removed and inserted and transported to/from the charging stations.

Yes. Having to redesign EV's so that they could take a standard battery is bad enough. Then to make it easily swapped is another problem. Lots of impracticalities. Just an interesting idea.

 

[KLB]

Shortest way to compliance I think is for other makes to adopt Tesla's standards.

Newer designs are more efficient and charge more quickly, so that isn't going to happen.

 

[Ingomike]

The cost mentioned in the header is real.

It’s Time To Admit It: EVs Are EVIL

It’s time for EV owners and manufacturers to answer for the environmental and human rights crimes they are bankrolling.

issuesinsights.com

 

[ghuns]

I think a daily driver use case for EV's works for a lot of people. I don't think it works for me. If I were driving to/from work every day across the bridge, it's a long drive, and maybe I could justify it. But I don't daily drive anything. Gas is most practical for us.

We have a truck and a jeep and together they cover all our use cases we need. Truck works great for hauling/towing and other utility uses. Jeep is for everything else.

Road in my first Tesla recently, an Uber in Vegas. I asked the driver if was pretty much the ultimate car for an Uber driver. He said it definitely was. His previous ride was a Cadillac CTS. He spent $1200-1500/month on gas with it. The Tesla made his electric bill go up $40/month.

 

[Ingomike]

Road in my first Tesla recently, an Uber in Vegas. I asked the driver if was pretty much the ultimate car for an Uber driver. He said it definitely was. His previous ride was a Cadillac CTS. He spent $1200-1500/month on gas with it. The Tesla made his electric bill go up $40/month.

I have a hard time believing this. Energy is energy, the amount needed to move a given object is the same. I am supposed to believe that moving a given object with gasoline costs 30 times the cost of electric energy?

Then if this were true the cost of electricity will necessarily have to dramatically increase due to scarcity when EV demand becomes too great for the grid…

 

[ghuns]

I have a hard time believing this. Energy is energy, the amount needed to move a given object is the same. I am supposed to believe that moving a given object with gasoline costs 30 times the cost of electric energy?

Then if this were true the cost of electricity will necessarily have to dramatically increase due to scarcity when EV demand becomes too great for the grid…

Maybe he was bulls**ting me. Or his Cuban accent was a little thick and I misunderstood. Oddly enough, we took 6 Uber rides while in Vegas and 5 out the 6 drivers were Cuban.

Just for fun, I googled what it cost to use a Tesla V3 supercharger that they have on the Vegas strip. It runs 30 cents per minute. It takes 15 minutes to get you 180 miles of range, about what Mr Uber guy said he drives every night. That's $4.50 a night or $135/month. So only 10X less than gassing up his Caddy.

 

[Ingomike]

Maybe he was bulls**ting me. Or his Cuban accent was a little thick and I misunderstood. Oddly enough, we took 6 Uber rides while in Vegas and 5 out the 6 drivers were Cuban.

Just for fun, I googled what it cost to use a Tesla V3 supercharger that they have on the Vegas strip. It runs 30 cents per minute. It takes 15 minutes to get you 180 miles of range, about what Mr Uber guy said he drives every night. That's $4.50 a night or $135/month. So only 10X less than gassing up his Caddy.

I am not one of the detailed engineer type but the caddy gets 22 mpg city and at $3.50 per gallon it would cost $840 per month to do 180 miles 30 days. So he is off on that unless his car was running very bad.

I suspect the public use charger is subsidized by others and not the real cost, but who knows.

It sounds too good to be true to me…

 

[actaeon277]

The cost mentioned in the header is real.

It’s Time To Admit It: EVs Are EVIL

It’s time for EV owners and manufacturers to answer for the environmental and human rights crimes they are bankrolling.

issuesinsights.com

Virtue signalers don't care about facts.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

EV batteries lack reparability leading some insurers to junk whole cars after even minor collisions​

EV batteries lack repairability leading some insurers to junk whole cars after even minor collisions

Some insurers are forced to scrap whole electric vehicles if their batteries are scratched or slightly damaged as they lack repairability and cost as much as 50% of the total vehicle.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

EV batteries lack reparability leading some insurers to junk whole cars after even minor collisions​

EV batteries lack repairability leading some insurers to junk whole cars after even minor collisions

Some insurers are forced to scrap whole electric vehicles if their batteries are scratched or slightly damaged as they lack repairability and cost as much as 50% of the total vehicle.

www.foxbusiness.com

“EVs need to be driven for thousands of miles before the extra emissions used to create them, which are more than fossil-fuel models, are offset.”

Is that 2000? or 100,000?

 

[jamil]

“EVs need to be driven for thousands of miles before the extra emissions used to create them, which are more than fossil-fuel models, are offset.”

Is that 2000? or 100,000?

I think that’s been mentioned earlier in this thread. Maybe 25K? So maybe a year to break even on carbon. Today’s batteries last ~120K miles. So that’s a big reason not to buy an EV. You pay at least $60K for a new car, drive it for maybe 3 or 4 years, and by then you’re gonna need a $8k+ battery? Not viable to me.

But. I read where Tesla’s newest battery technology will have a much higher energy density and last 10000K cycles. If you get 300 miles per charge that’s like 3M miles. And the new technology uses much less rare earth minerals so they’re cheaper to make. So probably less carbon footprint making them. No idea when or if these batteries will be integrated in production.

The thing is, we can notice a lot of reasons to think EV’s aren’t viable now. Eventually technology will solve those problems. I’m not saying that EV’s will be what kills ICE (if that replacement were organic and not political). By the time battery powered vehicles could replace ICE, there’s nothing saying some other technology won’t displace that first. But ICE engines will likely be replaced by something. At least for common use.