The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[GodFearinGunTotin]

This is not a crossover, it's a station wagon.

The Versatile E-Class Wagon

The original luxury utility vehicle is the E-Class Wagon. See design, performance and technology features, as well as models, pricing, photos and more.

www.mbusa.com

You mean like the one above and this one?

2024 E 450 4MATIC Sedan

Explore the E 450 4MATIC Sedan, including specifications, key features, packages and more. Then browse inventory or schedule a test drive.

www.mbusa.com

The fact you can find one or two examples sorta proves the point. Station wagons were once common. Now, they’re not. Once every manufacturer had minivans, now only a few do.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Minivans killed the station wagon, not SUVs. They had more room. SUVs killed the minivan.

This is not a hill I’m willing to die on but it’s not the way I remember it. Minivans and SUVs coexisted for quite awhile. GM (the company I’m most familiar with) had both for a long time.

 

[jamil]

Very binary there. LOL. At th end of the day CAFE killed the station wagon by classifying the SW as a gas guzzling car and the SUV as a light truck that at the time was a more favorable designation…

I’ll take your word for it about CAFE. I just remember thinking when I saw my first Jeep Wagoneer, dayam, that’s way better than our **** brown galaxy 500 station wagon. Is there even a market for station wagons today? Why would anyone buy that over, say, a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3rd row seat, if you had to have that

My first car was a gold Pinto station wagon with the fake wood grain. And. I know you’re thinking “chick magnet”. Well, you’d be surprised how not a chick magnet that was. They should have been banned before my dad could suggest we buy the neighbor’s car for sale in his yard. Worst $200 I ever spent. Probably.

 

[jamil]

The fact you can find one or two examples sorta proves the point. Station wagons were once common. Now, they’re not. Once every manufacturer had minivans, now only a few do.

It’s my point that the market should have killed them long before CAFE had anything to do with it. I had just assumed that it was the market because SUV’s are way cooler than station wagons.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

…SUV’s are way cooler than station wagons.

Yes, they are. Especially the real ones—the ones on truck frames.

We had minivans when the kids were little. I tried getting my wife talked into a Tahoe or a Suburban but she wanted the minivan. They were not cool. But they did have cubic feet of interior space. They were handy for taking trips with.

 

[jamil]

Minivans killed the station wagon, not SUVs. They had more room. SUVs killed the minivan.

I’m not thinking minivans are all that cool either. I would not mind their demise.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The fact you can find one or two examples sorta proves the point. Station wagons were once common. Now, they’re not. Once every manufacturer had minivans, now only a few do.

Can find more than one or two, but yeah they aren't very common now. Heck they weren't that common what 15 yrs ago. Wagons were the original "soccer mom" vehicle, then it became the mini van, now it's SUV/Crossovers. A lot of people are more drawn to form over function. My wife swore she would never own a minivan, until we got one pretty much given to us. When it was time for something newer she could have chose a SUV(what she had prior to the minivan), or another minivan. She picked minivan. But I guarantee she wouldn't pick a station wagon, no matter how available they were.

Minivans came out in the US in the mid 80s, I'm guessing that is when the decline of wagons really started. When did smaller SUVs and/or crossovers start becoming popular? I'm guessing that whenever it was is about when minivans started dropping off. You said that once every manufacturer had minivans, prior to that everyone had wagons, now everyone has small SUVs/crossovers. In 2019 Jeep sold more Grand Cherokees than all station wagons combined in the US. And the wagons that do sell don't really look like wagons now.

Station Wagons Sell in U.S. Mainly When They're Disguised as SUVs

Ruggedness is the wagon's last saving grace as far as American buyers are concerned.

www.caranddriver.com

Yes, they are. Especially the real ones—the ones on truck frames.

We had minivans when the kids were little. I tried getting my wife talked into a Tahoe or a Suburban but she wanted the minivan. They were not cool. But they did have cubic feet of interior space. They were handy for taking trips with.

Yep, that is why my wife picked a minivan. She's a GS troop leader, do you know how many cases of GS cookies you can fit in a Chrysler minivan with the seats down? Prior to the minivan she had a s-15 jimmy, to pick up cookies we had to take it and the other leader had to bring their truck. I think the most she ever had in it was well over 200 cases. Nope minivans aren't cool, but in most peoples eyes station wagons are even less cool.

I’m not thinking minivans are all that cool either. I would not mind their demise.

Bite your tongue. They may not be cool but they are handy.

 

[KLB]

This is not a hill I’m willing to die on but it’s not the way I remember it. Minivans and SUVs coexisted for quite awhile. GM (the company I’m most familiar with) had both for a long time.

Minivans got started in the mid 80s. Through the 90s and early 2000s, they were the family vehicle. SUVs have exploded in the last 20 years or so.

 

[Ingomike]

Older article but interesting…

How CAFE Killed Compact Trucks And Station Wagons

Close your eyes and imagine it’s 1979. A first-term Democratic president struggles with unemployment, malaise, high energy prices, and embassy trouble. The landscape of today looks like the landscape of then, but there’s one important thing missing: The compact pickup. Where did they go? The...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

 

[Ingomike]

Any explanation of what vehicle caused the demise of another must include the affects of the heavy hand of government…

 

[jamil]

Bite your tongue. They may not be cool but they are handy.

Just be glad I’m not grand poobah dicktater of the US. I’d ban all vehicles I find annoying.

 

[jamil]

Any explanation of what vehicle caused the demise of another must include the affects of the heavy hand of government…

It’s a shadow effect if it died because it’s ugly.

 

[rhamersley]

It’s a shadow effect if it died because it’s ugly.

 

[MCgrease08]

It’s a shadow effect if it died because it’s ugly.

This is what my family had when I was growing up. We called it the Dust Buster for obvious reasons.

I actually drove my date in it to the Home Coming dance my senior year. I'm sure no one here will be surprised to learn that I shouldn't have wasted my time removing the rear seats before picking her up. It was the opposite of a panty dropper.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Just be glad I’m not grand poobah dicktater of the US. I’d ban all vehicles I find annoying.

If you ban fart can mufflers I might be persuaded to go along with banning minivans.

 

[HoughMade]

Minivans killed the station wagon, not SUVs. They had more room. SUVs killed the minivan.

There are still several minivans available. Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Kia, Ford (Transit Connect), even Mercedes.

Anyhoo, minivans are much more practical than SUVs unless heavy towing is a requirement and then, they are only bested by larger SUVs.

As an example, the interior volume of a Suburban is less than 4 cubic feet more than a Chrysler Pacifica meaning that the Pacifica has more space than everything smaller than a Suburban. On top of that, the Pacifica can get 30+ mpg on the highway, average 23-24 mpg in normal driving. Finally, the Pacifica is faster 0-60 than all but the top-of-the-line 6.2L Suburban.

Now, I get it...minivans aren't cool. I hear a lot of complaints about the prices of Trucks, SUVs, and gas....

 

[KLB]

There are still several minivans available. Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Kia, Ford (Transit Connect), even Mercedes.

Anyhoo, minivans are much more practical than SUVs unless heavy towing is a requirement and then, they are only bested by larger SUVs.

As an example, the interior volume of a Suburban is less than 4 cubic feet more than a Chrysler Pacifica meaning that the Pacifica has more space than everything smaller than a Suburban. On top of that, the Pacifica can get 30+ mpg on the highway, average 23-24 mpg in normal driving. Finally, the Pacifica is faster 0-60 than all but the top-of-the-line 6.2L Suburban.

Now, I get it...minivans aren't cool. I hear a lot of complaints about the prices of Trucks, SUVs, and gas....

They are available, but they do not sell like they used to. They used to be everywhere. Now SUVs are everywhere.

The thing that amazes me was how SUVs killed off car sales. Seems most vehicles these days are SUV/Crossovers of some size.

 

[Ingomike]

The certainty that particular style ”killed off” another style without acknowledging that manufacturers we’re playing pea and shell games with the fleet to meet CAFE standards is astounding. An example.

“…the Chrysler PT Cruiser was the most egregious example of this.”

“Despite being based on a Neon platform and retaining the dimensions of a compact car, it was classified as a light truck by NHTSA. The PT Cruiser was designed to meet NHTSA standards for classification as a light truck, for the express purpose of raising Chrysler’s light truck average fuel economy. At the time, the minimum fleet average for passenger cars was 27.5 mpg CAFE, while for light trucks it was 20.7 mpg CAFE. A small, four-cylinder vehicle like the PT Cruiser was effectively a “ringer” for Chrysler’s fleet average. The year 2000 CAFE targets discussed above translate to 21 mpg IRL for passenger cars and 15 mpg IRL for light trucks. A “light truck” like the PT would obviously have no trouble surpassing these standards.”

 

[jamil]

The certainty that particular style ”killed off” another style without acknowledging that manufacturers we’re playing pea and shell games with the fleet to meet CAFE standards is astounding. An example.

“…the Chrysler PT Cruiser was the most egregious example of this.”

“Despite being based on a Neon platform and retaining the dimensions of a compact car, it was classified as a light truck by NHTSA. The PT Cruiser was designed to meet NHTSA standards for classification as a light truck, for the express purpose of raising Chrysler’s light truck average fuel economy. At the time, the minimum fleet average for passenger cars was 27.5 mpg CAFE, while for light trucks it was 20.7 mpg CAFE. A small, four-cylinder vehicle like the PT Cruiser was effectively a “ringer” for Chrysler’s fleet average. The year 2000 CAFE targets discussed above translate to 21 mpg IRL for passenger cars and 15 mpg IRL for light trucks. A “light truck” like the PT would obviously have no trouble surpassing these standards.”

I guess if you thought that it would be astounding. What certainty are you ascribing?

 

[KLB]

The certainty that particular style ”killed off” another style without acknowledging that manufacturers we’re playing pea and shell games with the fleet to meet CAFE standards is astounding. An example.

“…the Chrysler PT Cruiser was the most egregious example of this.”

“Despite being based on a Neon platform and retaining the dimensions of a compact car, it was classified as a light truck by NHTSA. The PT Cruiser was designed to meet NHTSA standards for classification as a light truck, for the express purpose of raising Chrysler’s light truck average fuel economy. At the time, the minimum fleet average for passenger cars was 27.5 mpg CAFE, while for light trucks it was 20.7 mpg CAFE. A small, four-cylinder vehicle like the PT Cruiser was effectively a “ringer” for Chrysler’s fleet average. The year 2000 CAFE targets discussed above translate to 21 mpg IRL for passenger cars and 15 mpg IRL for light trucks. A “light truck” like the PT would obviously have no trouble surpassing these standards.”

So it's only purpose was to cover for the less efficient trucks in their lineup. What is the point?

You guys remember a lot more wagons than I do.