The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[jamil]

Limiting choices through government action is force. Consider force being a continuum where the extreme end is gun-to-your-head-and-death-if-you-don’t-comply. Shaping the possible decisions based on the limited options available for choosing is forcing people to choose only options TPTB find acceptable. I forget who coined the nudge-shoove-shoot concept but we’re definitely in the nudge phase of the process.

I think of it more as government is forcing companies which limits my choice. If I were being forced, the gun would be at my head. I can own the car I want legally. It’s availability is limited by the gun at the manufacturers’ heads. My point is that the distinction is still important because it’s not the same thing even if it has an indirect consequence on my choice.

When someone says I’m being forced to buy EV’s I’d have to put “forced” in quotes. They haven’t made ICE powered vehicles illegal to own.

 

[Ingomike]

I think of it more as government is forcing companies which limits my choice. If I were being forced, the gun would be at my head. I can own the car I want legally. It’s availability is limited by the gun at the manufacturers’ heads. My point is that the distinction is still important because it’s not the same thing even if it has an indirect consequence on my choice.

When someone says I’m being forced to buy EV’s I’d have to put “forced” in quotes. They haven’t made ICE powered vehicles illegal to own.

This post is an excellent example of how smart people outsmart themselves. Getting all hung up over the semantics all while government runs amuck. Force is force. The consequences are direct. The obfuscation is in your mind…

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think of it more as government is forcing companies which limits my choice. If I were being forced, the gun would be at my head. I can own the car I want legally. It’s availability is limited by the gun at the manufacturers’ heads. My point is that the distinction is still important because it’s not the same thing even if it has an indirect consequence on my choice.

When someone says I’m being forced to buy EV’s I’d have to put “forced” in quotes. They haven’t made ICE powered vehicles illegal to own.

Oh it’s indirect but it’s forcing your decisions.

 

[KLB]

Don't be so confident about that. It starts small in a few states then goes nationwide.

California Officially Bans Pre-2010 Diesel Trucks, Buses​

California Officially Bans Pre-2010 Diesel Trucks, Buses

In 2008, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) approved legislation designed to curtail emissions from older trucks and buses operating within the state. Known as the “Heavy Duty Vehicle Greenhouse Gas Emission Reduction” measure, the law originally called for long-haul truckers to install...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

If there is any place where stupid laws will be passed it is there.

 

[jamil]

This post is an excellent example of how smart people outsmart themselves. Getting all hung up over the semantics all while government runs amuck. Force is force. The consequences are direct. The obfuscation is in your mind…

WTF are you talking about? Disagreeing that they're forcing you to buy EV's, NOW, is not obfuscating what the government is doing. I talk about the government overreach a lot here. But words have meaning. Let's use the right ones for the things we mean.

You do not have to own a EV today. I just bought a gas guzzler...well, by today's standards. If I waited until next year, I would have the same choice available, except possibly by then I would not have to order it because it's likely there'd be stuff on the lots by then. So unless you live in a dystopian fantasy world even worse than the one we live in, no. You're not being forced to buy EV's now. I wouldn't say that can't be in the future though. A President Newsome would totally orgasm over that.

So the right language would not be that you're being forced to own an EV today. But, they are overreaching their authority to make change to tomorrows regulations, to it impossible for manufacturing ICE vehicles that can meet tomorrow's standards, in a move towards their delusional dystopian wet dream of zero emissions.

To me that sounds worrisome and infuriating enough. I don't have attach ominous, but inaccurate language, to make me see any clearer. My concern about the direction of the country is already dialed pretty close to 11. So is it that you're upset because I don't use the same inaccurate language as you to describe it?

 

[jamil]

Oh it’s indirect but it’s forcing your decisions.

Not now. Not today. Tomorrow, it is.

But, shouldn't we have language with the resolution needed to describe the problem? Mike insists that the gun is at our heads. Well, no, they don't have a gun to our heads. They've passed zero laws to say we can only drive EV's. When you say it like Mike likes to say it, it means that though. Effectively the outcome can be the same. But we have same outcomes for lots of stuff, but we like to describe the process to get to that outcome accurately.

The problems is that Government is too powerful. And now they have a lot of support from the masses that they've indoctrinated, and scared into thinking that life on the planet will literally die in 2030 or whatever. So people give the government permission to make these sweeping regulations that will kill ICE production because they can't possibly meet the ridiculous standards.

 

[jamil]

If there is any place where stupid laws will be passed it is there.

I guess they don't want any real tax base to pay for their bat **** crazy ideas. They'll drive even more people out.

This is for high tax states, but really we could say it's Bat****topia. Taxes aren't the only reasons why people are leaving the blue states in such high numbers. This is just residents. I'd like to see the numbers on businesses that have moved from these states.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I cannot buy a new station wagon for any price in the US. (Might be able to import one.) They were a very popular vehicle and one might assume the public moved on and lost interest in them, but the force of CAFE standards is what doomed them. It is already taken choices, it is right now…

You speak of this like a frog in the warming pot not realizing he is already cooked…

You can't?

Best Station Wagons for 2023 and 2024

Wondering what station wagon to buy? Our testing team looks at over 200 data points when rating vehicles. Check out what made our list of the best station wagons to buy in 2023.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Ingomike]

You can't?

Best Station Wagons for 2023 and 2024

Wondering what station wagon to buy? Our testing team looks at over 200 data points when rating vehicles. Check out what made our list of the best station wagons to buy in 2023.

www.caranddriver.com

Those are not my definition of a station wagon…

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Those are not my definition of a station wagon…

Why not? Heck the Mercedes even has the backward facing third row seat. Not sure about the others.

 

[Ingomike]

Why not? Heck the Mercedes even has the backward facing third row seat. Not sure about the others.

I had read or heard in the station wagon thread that these were not available new in the USA. That you could import one but they were rare. I need to look into this more. Maybe they meant from American nameplates.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I had read or heard in the station wagon thread that these were not available new in the USA. That you could import one but they were rare. I need to look into this more. Maybe they meant from American nameplates.

Could be American nameplates. There is one for sale in Indy for $85,600.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...agon/mercedes-benz/e-class?&clickType=listing

 

[Ingomike]

Could be American nameplates. There is one for sale in Indy for $85,600.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=665413783&listingTypes=NEW&vehicleStyleCodes=WAGON&makeCodeList=MB&seriesCodeList=E_CLASS&zip=47960&state=IN&city=Monticello&searchRadius=75&isNewSearch=false&referrer=/cars-for-sale/new-cars/wagon/mercedes-benz/e-class?&clickType=listing

If you have not seen this it was pretty good.

 

[firecadet613]

Screw the station wagon... get a truck!

 

[jamil]

You can't?

Best Station Wagons for 2023 and 2024

Wondering what station wagon to buy? Our testing team looks at over 200 data points when rating vehicles. Check out what made our list of the best station wagons to buy in 2023.

www.caranddriver.com

I think if anything has killed the station wagon it’s SUV’s. And if TPTB were going to try to eliminate any vehicle type, I think it would be the SUV. Karen doesn’t like them.

 

[Ingomike]

I think if anything has killed the station wagon it’s SUV’s. And if TPTB were going to try to eliminate any vehicle type, I think it would be the SUV. Karen doesn’t like them.

Very binary there. LOL. At th end of the day CAFE killed the station wagon by classifying the SW as a gas guzzling car and the SUV as a light truck that at the time was a more favorable designation…

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think if anything has killed the station wagon it’s SUV’s. And if TPTB were going to try to eliminate any vehicle type, I think it would be the SUV. Karen doesn’t like them.

CAFE killed station wagons and gave rise to the popularity of SUVs. As time went on SUVs gave us CUVs (crossovers). Those things in TJBB’s posts are crossovers, like the GM Traverses, Acadias, etc.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Very binary there. LOL. At th end of the day CAFE killed the station wagon by classifying the SW as a gas guzzling car and the SUV as a light truck that at the time was a more favorable designation…

As I remember them back in the day station wagons were sedans with an extended seating area in the rear. For every station wagon I remember a corresponding sedan version.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

CAFE killed station wagons and gave rise to the popularity of SUVs. As time went on SUVs gave us CUVs (crossovers). Those things in TJBB’s posts are crossovers, like the GM Traverses, Acadias, etc.

This is not a crossover, it's a station wagon.

The Versatile E-Class Wagon

The original luxury utility vehicle is the E-Class Wagon. See design, performance and technology features, as well as models, pricing, photos and more.

www.mbusa.com

As I remember them back in the day station wagons were sedans with an extended seating area in the rear. For every station wagon I remember a corresponding sedan version.

You mean like the one above and this one?

2024 E 450 4MATIC Sedan

Explore the E 450 4MATIC Sedan, including specifications, key features, packages and more. Then browse inventory or schedule a test drive.

www.mbusa.com

Or perhaps the Audi A4 (sedan) or Audi A4 all terrain (wagon), or the Volvo S60 (sedan) and V60 (wagon), or...

 

[KLB]

Minivans killed the station wagon, not SUVs. They had more room. SUVs killed the minivan.