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  • KLB

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    They won't?
    Sure?
    Cause they sure seem to be talking about it.

    I don't have a problem people WANTING to buy and EV or Hybrid.
    It's the FORCING that I have a problem with.
    No one is being forced. Like I said, it isn't going to happen in your lifetime. There is nowhere near the support needed to attempt such a thing. I doubt it ever will be forced. They are using propaganda to convince people that they want to buy them.

    You don't buy new cars, so even if they stopped selling new ICE cars today, you would have them available to own and drive.
     

    jamil

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    Normalcy bias at its pinnacle…
    I wouldn’t say never, and I’d also say that “forced” doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll write a law that explicitly requires everyone to own an EV. I can imagine a country, if under the control of bat **** crazy Democrats long enough, that either makes emissions standards so tough it’s impossible to make a ICE engine that complies, or just bans them outright. In my lifetime? Idunno. Depends how long I got left. Realistically, at most 20 years. They keep talking about zero emissions by 2030. So yeah, that would be in my lifetime.

    If we can dethrone crazy, then all bets are off.
     

    Ingomike

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    No one is being forced. Like I said, it isn't going to happen in your lifetime. There is nowhere near the support needed to attempt such a thing. I doubt it ever will be forced. They are using propaganda to convince people that they want to buy them.

    You don't buy new cars, so even if they stopped selling new ICE cars today, you would have them available to own and drive.
    What is forced? Is that only with a gun in your face or is it also when they incentivize/penalize, manufacturers, energy providers, and consumers to take away the choices? Everything government does is by force and TPTB are using that force to take away my choices now and in the future.

    See the station wagon thread, why see they are gone? Government force. CAFE put them in the car category while minivans and F150’s were light trucks hence their demise though they had nearly a 100 year run.

    I completely disagree, we are being forced…
     

    jamil

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    No one is being forced. Like I said, it isn't going to happen in your lifetime. There is nowhere near the support needed to attempt such a thing. I doubt it ever will be forced. They are using propaganda to convince people that they want to buy them.

    You don't buy new cars, so even if they stopped selling new ICE cars today, you would have them available to own and drive.
    I never would have thought there’d be enough support for men competing in women sports, but here we are. I never would have thought that our government would make companies fire people for not taking an unproven vaccine. But here we are.

    The moral of the story that the last few years have taught me, you can’t estimate what is beyond the capacity of crazy leaders to accomplish. They’ll surprise you.
     

    jamil

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    What is forced? Is that only with a gun in your face or is it also when they incentivize/penalize, manufacturers, energy providers, and consumers to take away the choices? Everything government does is by force and TPTB are using that force to take away my choices now and in the future.

    See the station wagon thread, why see they are gone? Government force. CAFE put them in the car category while minivans and F150’s were light trucks hence their demise though they had nearly a 100 year run.

    I completely disagree, we are being forced…
    Limiting choice isn’t exactly force. You have to go through the gymnastics to spin it that way. But they are limiting choice. And that’s not nothing.
     

    Ingomike

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    I never would have thought there’d be enough support for men competing in women sports, but here we are. I never would have thought that our government would make companies fire people for not taking an unproven vaccine. But here we are.

    The moral of the story that the last few years have taught me, you can’t estimate what is beyond the capacity of crazy leaders to accomplish. They’ll surprise you.
    Why does it work? I believe because the dumbmasses have been indoctrinated and propagandized by education.
     

    Ingomike

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    Limiting choice isn’t exactly force. You have to go through the gymnastics to spin it that way. But they are limiting choice. And that’s not nothing.
    If manufacturers do not limit my choice they will see force. That is not a stretch. What would happen if you and I opened a a factory and started building cars that do not meet CAFE standards? When the force negotiations ended it would look like Waco.

    That is force in my book…
     

    jamil

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    Why does it work? I believe because the dumbmasses have been indoctrinated and propagandized by education.
    That’s exactly right. But not just by education. Surprisingly, boomers can fall for this progressive **** too. Maybe it’s years of watching ABC nightly news before they ended the fairness doctrine in journalism. So there after the nightly news is a trojan horse for belief.

    Or. Wokeness is just a really powerful ruse.
     

    jamil

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    If manufacturers do not limit my choice they will see force. That is not a stretch. What would happen if you and I opened a a factory and started building cars that do not meet CAFE standards? When the force negotiations ended it would look like Waco.

    That is force in my book…
    You said it’s right now. cafe standards are going to severely limit what can be made by 2025. Today you can buy what you want if you can find it due to scarcity. I just bought a vehicle that gets 19mpg overall. Because I can.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Limiting choice isn’t exactly force. You have to go through the gymnastics to spin it that way. But they are limiting choice. And that’s not nothing.
    Limiting choices through government action is force. Consider force being a continuum where the extreme end is gun-to-your-head-and-death-if-you-don’t-comply. Shaping the possible decisions based on the limited options available for choosing is forcing people to choose only options TPTB find acceptable. I forget who coined the nudge-shoove-shoot concept but we’re definitely in the nudge phase of the process.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    That’s exactly right. But not just by education. Surprisingly, boomers can fall for this progressive **** too. Maybe it’s years of watching ABC nightly news before they ended the fairness doctrine in journalism. So there after the nightly news is a trojan horse for belief.

    Or. Wokeness is just a really powerful ruse.
    Boomers perfected progressivism. Their parents and grandparents started it.
     

    JCSR

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    Limiting choices through government action is force. Consider force being a continuum where the extreme end is gun-to-your-head-and-death-if-you-don’t-comply. Shaping the possible decisions based on the limited options available for choosing is forcing people to choose only options TPTB find acceptable. I forget who coined the nudge-shoove-shoot concept but we’re definitely in the nudge phase of the process.
    Exactly. nobody is "forced" to pay taxes. But do you really have a alternative? Sounds forced to me.
     

    KLB

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    I wouldn’t say never, and I’d also say that “forced” doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll write a law that explicitly requires everyone to own an EV. I can imagine a country, if under the control of bat **** crazy Democrats long enough, that either makes emissions standards so tough it’s impossible to make a ICE engine that complies, or just bans them outright. In my lifetime? Idunno. Depends how long I got left. Realistically, at most 20 years. They keep talking about zero emissions by 2030. So yeah, that would be in my lifetime.

    If we can dethrone crazy, then all bets are off.
    That would be for new cars. You'd still have a bunch of used cars to choose from to get you through your final days.
     

    Ingomike

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    You said it’s right now. cafe standards are going to severely limit what can be made by 2025. Today you can buy what you want if you can find it due to scarcity. I just bought a vehicle that gets 19mpg overall. Because I can.
    I cannot buy a new station wagon for any price in the US. (Might be able to import one.) They were a very popular vehicle and one might assume the public moved on and lost interest in them, but the force of CAFE standards is what doomed them. It is already taken choices, it is right now…

    You speak of this like a frog in the warming pot not realizing he is already cooked…
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    I cannot buy a new station wagon for any price in the US. (Might be able to import one.) They were a very popular vehicle and one might assume the public moved on and lost interest in them, but the force of CAFE standards is what doomed them. It is already taken choices, it is right now…

    You speak of this like a frog in the warming pot not realizing he is already cooked…
    CAFE standards are what made SUVs the popular things they are today. Used to be SUVs were considered trucks. Trucks had higher CAFE limits. Ta-Da! Buy a Tahoe instead.
     

    JCSR

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    That would be for new cars. You'd still have a bunch of used cars to choose from to get you through your final days.
    Don't be so confident about that. It starts small in a few states then goes nationwide.

    California Officially Bans Pre-2010 Diesel Trucks, Buses​


     
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