"The Pitchforks Are Coming… For Us Plutocrats"

[mrjarrell]

Here's a seriously wealthy guy calling for an increase in the minimum wage, citing the failed policy of "trickle down". I must say, he does lay out his case in a rather rational fashion. His self interest, (in not wanting to die in a possible revolution due to income inequality), shows through, but he does make a compelling case. Not sure I agree with him, but at least he doesn't insult your intelligence.

The Pitchforks Are Coming? For Us Plutocrats - Nick Hanauer - POLITICO Magazine

 

[actaeon277]

Here's a seriously wealthy guy calling for an increase in the minimum wage, citing the failed policy of "trickle down". I must say, he does lay out his case in a rather rational fashion. His self interest, (in not wanting to die in a possible revolution due to income inequality), shows through, but he does make a compelling case. Not sure I agree with him, but at least he doesn't insult your intelligence.

The Pitchforks Are Coming? For Us Plutocrats - Nick Hanauer - POLITICO Magazine

So let him run more businesses, and pay workers more money.
His choice.

 

[Fargo]

A very well thought out piece. I am with him right up until he comes to the conclusion that more government is the answer. I believe that employers actually valuing their employees and treating them like humans rather than numbers is the answer.

Both Costco and Starbucks behave in the way he recommends and it hasn't exactly been the death of either!

 

[mrjarrell]

A very well thought out piece. I am with him right up until he comes to the conclusion that more government is the answer. I believe that employers actually valuing their employees and treating them like humans rather than numbers is the answer.

Both Costco and Starbucks behave in the way he recommends and it hasn't exactly been the death of either!

Exactly. There's got to be a sane middle ground here. The MW, as it stands is a joke and is harmful. Wages DO need to increase, but more government isn't the answer. Companies need to start paying more, (like IKEA, who just raised their MW to over $10/hr). The MW keeps people impoverished and on the dole. I guess we're going to see how these raises work out in places that have adopted them, (as a government sponsored MW).

 

[Hawkeye]

Exactly. There's got to be a sane middle ground here. The MW, as it stands is a joke and is harmful. Wages DO need to increase, but more government isn't the answer. Companies need to start paying more, (like IKEA, who just raised their MW to over $10/hr). The MW keeps people impoverished and on the dole. I guess we're going to see how these raises work out in places that have adopted them, (as a government MANDATED MW).

FIFY. There is no sponsorship of hte MW by any government, at least in the sense that the government helps pay the MW. THe MW law is a goverrnment MANDATE.

 

[Denny347]

Great article and it does make sense.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

The minimum wage is all damage. Employers have a budget for labor, and MW winds up imposing a limit on how many jobs are available within that budget. Raise the minimum, and jobs go away. Some jobs are simply not worthy of even the already established minimum wage. The people that are stuck in them are stuck mostly due to personal failure and laziness. A high school diploma is not that damn hard to get. If you decide not to learn to read, or decide not to learn basic math, or expect that your laziness won't be punished, you're going to be poor. Kids need to be smacked in the face with this from the beginning, to motivate them to make better decisions. The ones that haven't made good decisions deserve to suffer. With all the stupidity causing prices to rise these days, I object to paying even higher prices so that these losers can be paid more. Oh well, at least they're working.

 

[Phil502]

Some jobs are not worth 15 dollars an hour. You're not supposed to make a living at McDonalds you're supposed to grow up and get a real job. The problem is that real jobs are disappearing fast for people unwilling or unable to get training or education. So in turn now we are supposed to pay bus-boys 30k a year?

 

[MisterChester]

Some jobs are not worth 15 dollars an hour. You're not supposed to make a living at McDonalds you're supposed to grow up and get a real job. The problem is that real jobs are disappearing fast for people unwilling or unable to get training or education. So in turn now we are supposed to pay bus-boys 30k a year?

15 bucks is high for a MW in today's money, but I'm sure it will reach 15 one day. Inflation and costs of living. Maybe one day bus boys will make 50k a year, but a dollar in the future is worth less than a dollar today.

 

[MisterChester]

A very well thought out piece. I am with him right up until he comes to the conclusion that more government is the answer. I believe that employers actually valuing their employees and treating them like humans rather than numbers is the answer.

Both Costco and Starbucks behave in the way he recommends and it hasn't exactly been the death of either!

I agree with you here. However I don't think it should be completely removed from the table. I'd like to see it as an option to use if nothing else works. A better question to ask is how do we solve this problem with more freedom?

 

[findingZzero]

The minimum wage is all damage. Employers have a budget for labor, and MW winds up imposing a limit on how many jobs are available within that budget. Raise the minimum, and jobs go away. Some jobs are simply not worthy of even the already established minimum wage. The people that are stuck in them are stuck mostly due to personal failure and laziness. A high school diploma is not that damn hard to get. If you decide not to learn to read, or decide not to learn basic math, or expect that your laziness won't be punished, you're going to be poor. Kids need to be smacked in the face with this from the beginning, to motivate them to make better decisions. The ones that haven't made good decisions deserve to suffer. With all the stupidity causing prices to rise these days, I object to paying even higher prices so that these losers can be paid more. Oh well, at least they're working.

Expect the first spirit at midnight.

Ebenezer Scrooge "...Are there no prisons?..." - YouTube[VIDEO]

 

[ModernGunner]

As noted repeatedly, adjusted for inflation over the last 40 years, minimum wage SHOULD, already, be AT $15 / hr. Not that tough to research, for those that want to do so. For minimum wage to be currently at $15 / hr. would require ONLY that wages rose 18 cents per hour per year. As we KNOW, business owners refused to 'give' their workers even that pathetic increase.

It's not a 'debate' and it's not 'debatable'. There is simply NO valid 'argument' against it being $15 / hr. now. The spurious claim that 'they'll just lay off all the workers' is false. The spurious claim that 'they'll go out of business' is false. IF either of those were true, then WHY didn't "all those businesses" go out of business when the minimum wage was (then) equivalent to $15 / hr., 40 years ago, or in the ensuing 40 years?

McDonald's, Burger King, Dunkin' Donuts, those were ALL in business in 1974, and ALL of them are bigger now. ALL of them paid the minimum wage then, which in today's dollars would be... you guessed it... $15.00 per hour per employee. And they ALL have STILL managed to 'figure out' how to make millions in profits.

Those business owners are NOT saying "I can't pay that". What they ARE saying is "I don't WANT to pay that!"

What those business owners are REALLY saying is "WHY should I have to pay a worker a fair liveable wage?! If I don't, *I* get to keep that money!"

Those business owners have had the benefit of 40 YEARS of savings by NOT having to pay a fair minimum wage. Those who whine "I'll go out of business!"? Good. There'll be a similar business going INTO business the very next day, one that DOES pay $15 / hr. and can figure out how to 'make it work'. Those who can't? Tough nuts for them. They've had 4 decades to figure it out and learn that the single most valuable asset in ANY company is the employees.

Those that haven't figured out 'Business 101' deserve to go out of business.

 

[printcraft]

 

[ATM]

...It's not a 'debate' and it's not 'debatable'. There is simply NO valid 'argument' against it being $15 / hr. now...

All of your straw arguments aside, it is debatable and the valid argument is this:

If the value of your hourly labor for me is worth less than some arbitrary minimum wage the government has established, I will not pay you anything and you will not work for me.

Absent the government intrusion, we could have come to an agreement where you would start at a lesser wage, developing the skills and trust necessary to move up to doing something more valuable and earning higher wages from me or elsewhere.

Your position leaves many in poverty. Try Liberty.

 

[ATM]

NO WEEZIN' THE JUICE!

 

[jamil]

As noted repeatedly, adjusted for inflation over the last 40 years, minimum wage SHOULD, already, be AT $15 / hr. Not that tough to research, for those that want to do so. For minimum wage to be currently at $15 / hr. would require ONLY that wages rose 18 cents per hour per year. As we KNOW, business owners refused to 'give' their workers even that pathetic increase.

It's not a 'debate' and it's not 'debatable'. There is simply NO valid 'argument' against it being $15 / hr. now. The spurious claim that 'they'll just lay off all the workers' is false. The spurious claim that 'they'll go out of business' is false. IF either of those were true, then WHY didn't "all those businesses" go out of business when the minimum wage was (then) equivalent to $15 / hr., 40 years ago, or in the ensuing 40 years?

McDonald's, Burger King, Dunkin' Donuts, those were ALL in business in 1974, and ALL of them are bigger now. ALL of them paid the minimum wage then, which in today's dollars would be... you guessed it... $15.00 per hour per employee. And they ALL have STILL managed to 'figure out' how to make millions in profits.

Those business owners are NOT saying "I can't pay that". What they ARE saying is "I don't WANT to pay that!"

What those business owners are REALLY saying is "WHY should I have to pay a worker a fair liveable wage?! If I don't, *I* get to keep that money!"

Those business owners have had the benefit of 40 YEARS of savings by NOT having to pay a fair minimum wage. Those who whine "I'll go out of business!"? Good. There'll be a similar business going INTO business the very next day, one that DOES pay $15 / hr. and can figure out how to 'make it work'. Those who can't? Tough nuts for them. They've had 4 decades to figure it out and learn that the single most valuable asset in ANY company is the employees.

Those that haven't figured out 'Business 101' deserve to go out of business.

I think you need to step back and reevaluate there MG. There should be no minimum wage at all other than the least valuable job. If you want to earn more money from your employer, do something more valuable FOR your employer.

Your employer didn't just give you a job for the betterment of society, so that you will be employed. Your employer hired you to give labor or intellect worth more to him/her than the wages you're paid. If what you're giving your employer isn't worth what you're getting from your employer, why the hell should you stay employed?

 

[MisterChester]

I think you need to step back and reevaluate there MG. There should be no minimum wage at all other than the least valuable job. If you want to earn more money from your employer, do something more valuable FOR your employer.

Your employer didn't just give you a job for the betterment of society, so that you will be employed. Your employer hired you to give labor or intellect worth more to him/her than the wages you're paid. If what you're giving your employer isn't worth what you're getting from your employer, why the hell should you stay employed?

I think it has less to do with "value" of work and more with worth of pay. For the sake of argument, let's say that if the MW kept with inflation and costs of living it would be $15. If it's $7.25 now, then that would mean the same level of labor is now worth less than it used to be, even if it's the same exact work. You must also take into account that a dollar now is worth less than a dollar 10 years ago and so on. It's not so much about adding pay because the labor is different, it's making sure the same labor is compensated the same "real" amount of pay.

 

[KG1]

Should all business owners be guaranteed a minimum profit on their initial investment or should they work harder and invest more into their business to increase their profit margin?

 

[mrjarrell]

I think it has less to do with "value" of work and more with worth of pay. For the sake of argument, let's say that if the MW kept with inflation and costs of living it would be $15. If it's $7.25 now, then that would mean the same level of labor is now worth less than it used to be, even if it's the same exact work. You must also take into account that a dollar now is worth less than a dollar 10 years ago and so on. It's not so much about adding pay because the labor is different, it's making sure the same labor is compensated the same "real" amount of pay.

This really isn't a difficult thing to understand. Wages aren't keeping pace with inflation and the devaluation of the dollar. And the employers are pocketing the savings, at the expense of the workers and, in many cases, the taxpayer, (as the workers are forced to be on the dole, collect food stamps and be on medicare/aid).

It's also very easy to see who has actually read the article and who didn't.

 

[KG1]

This really isn't a difficult thing to understand. Wages aren't keeping pace with inflation and the devaluation of the dollar. And the employers are pocketing the savings, at the expense of the workers and, in many cases, the taxpayer, (as the workers are forced to be on the dole, collect food stamps and be on medicare/aid).

It's also very easy to see who has actually read the article and who didn't.

For arguments sake. Should this be the responsibility of the employer to keep the workers off the government dole? Do they owe it to taxpayers? or to their own bottom line on their investments?