The coming war with Iran

[Kutnupe14]

Tell it to the American soldiers who have died or live with the results of Iranian IED's!..

And what about the Iranian soldiers who died during the Iran-Iraq War? A war we spent billions in, helped procure weapons, ignored a chemical attack, provided military intelligence, and trained specops forces. You can't have it both ways, concerning proxy wars, either both are ok, are neither.

 

[BugI02]

Wonderful Idea, but not sure it's possible.

In '82 we BEGGED Reagan/Bush NOT to teach the hard won lessons of insurgency from Viet Nam to the Mujahideen, particularly the Wahhabi Islamic fanatics, but nobody listened.

In '89 when Soviets withdrew, everyone in the know begged Bush not to drop Afghanistan like a hot rock, but they did anyway giving rise to the Taliban Wahhabi extremists.
(See Osama bin Laden, etc.)

When finished with Saddam Insane in '90, we begged senior staff to get out of the middle east entirely, let them sort it out.
Everyone knew for a fact we would be there for AT LEAST 30 years, and here we are...

The professionals told GWB to stay the hell out of Iraq in round 2 of this crap, but again, nobody listened to the professionals.

China & Russia supplies the Wahhabi Islam types, they send well armed crazy cannon fodder, all the while it's America that bleeds.

If you want an example of listening to the professionals,
See the breakup of the soviet union and the Croatian/Bosnian genocidal war.
In & Out, side of right, use the military for what the military is for...

The difference between ignorant & stupid,
Ignorance simply means you don't have an education in a particular subject.
Stupid is having professionals tell you what to do, and ignoring it...

Your understanding of what went on in Afghanistan is a bit thin. May I suggest Ghost Wars by Steve Coll for your reading list? It is getting a bit dated, but you will still recognize all the major local players

 

[DadSmith]

And what about the Iranian soldiers who died during the Iran-Iraq War? A war we spent billions in, helped procure weapons, ignored a chemical attack, provided military intelligence, and trained specops forces. You can't have it both ways, concerning proxy wars, either both are ok, are neither.

Tell me the founders views on a standing Army outside of a declaration of war by congress.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Tell me the founders views on a standing Army outside of a declaration of war by congress.

That's well known, isn't it? They did not believe in a standing army, because of the sheer power and influence it held over the people; as well as the belief that a standing army would morph into something that always needed to feed it self (ie conflict)

 

[DadSmith]

That's well known, isn't it? They did not believe in a standing army, because of the sheer power and influence it held over the people; as well as the belief that a standing army would morph into something that always needed to feed it self (ie conflict)

If no standing Army a lot of these police actions would not take place. So I ask you how far away is this current Federal Government from operating inside the bounds of the constitution?

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

There's a point at which that tail began wagging our dog. And our country changed.

I cant disagree with that.. I truly believe it all revolves around a secret the governments know (at least the big players) and they are desperate to keep it hidden because they do not want to lose control.. if that assessment is correct, it's only a matter of time before it unravels because the truth ALWAYS come out no matter how hard someone or governments try to supress it. Im pretty sure I know what that truth is but I'm a God revering Christian so what do I know lol

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[TangoFoxtrot]

What do we get out of this great friendship and alliance?

Just make a mental checklist of what things would probably be like without Israel there.

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[NKBJ]

Your understanding of what went on in Afghanistan is a bit thin. May I suggest Ghost Wars by Steve Coll for your reading list? It is getting a bit dated, but you will still recognize all the major local players

I still think ambassador Dubs was a sacrifice.

 

[NKBJ]

Just make a mental checklist of what things would probably be like without Israel there.

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Look at it as an "alternative history" project?

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

Look at it as an "alternative history" project?

Right.. I can see alot of ways it would go badly.. not to different than if hitler had been successful.. I know its beyond my wisdom (or lack of) to know how to put the fire out.

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[JeepHammer]

Your understanding of what went on in Afghanistan is a bit thin. May I suggest Ghost Wars by Steve Coll for your reading list? It is getting a bit dated, but you will still recognize all the major local players

Ever ate (Soviet) Afghanistan dirt?
If not, you might want to talk to someone that did to get an uncensored version of events.

 

[NKBJ]

Ever ate (Soviet) Afghanistan dirt?
If not, you might want to talk to someone that did to get an uncensored version of events.

OK, I'll ask. What was the reason for Dubs' sacrifice?

 

[erasure]

Just make a mental checklist of what things would probably be like without Israel there.

Do it for me. I want to see if it's worth $500,000 an hour.

 

[JeepHammer]

That's well known, isn't it? They did not believe in a standing army, because of the sheer power and influence it held over the people; as well as the belief that a standing army would morph into something that always needed to feed it self (ie conflict)

Fairly close, but not quite.
Founders always considered a standing army/navy necessary and made provisions for both in all original writings on the subject.
The clear, distinct lines between civilian authorities, like police & courts took care of civilian matters,
The military took care of foreign threats, and the lines were not to be crossed.

This was *Supposed* to ensure civilians had full benefits of 'Due Process' of civilian law and protections under the Constitution,
And the military never looked at civilians as an 'Enemy'.
(Constitution Classes in the Marines, which I understand they don't offer anymore to any branch of the service, a bad omen in my opinion)

Now, the UN is perfectly capable of doing 'Police Actions' and 'Peace Keeping' missions.
When you call out the US military there *Should* be a full scale conflict at hand, since that's entirely what the US military exists for.

If the rest of the world/UN can't get it done, diplomaticy has entirely failed, it's time for the shooting to begin,
And as we have learned time & time again, NO HALF MEASURES!
Steamroll the enemy, let the rest of the countries in the UN decide what to do after primary threats are removed (or extinct/obliterated).

We loose WAY TOO MANY good people trying to do half measures.
When no one can reason with a mad dog, you exterminate the mad dog and finish the threat, then let the appropriate authorities deal with their ends of things.

If it weren't for oil in most of the middle east, lithium in Afghanistan, etc. there wouldn't be a reason for America to get into these wars at all, and by extension, the anti-American sentiment there is currently.
The tail wagged the dog here, and has been wagging it since oil changed everything in the middle east.

No oil or easily reclaimable natural resources in Afghanistan is the reason it got dropped like a hot rock in '89 when the Soviets pulled out.
Lithium reserves changed everything...

 

[NKBJ]

Fairly close, but not quite.
Founders always considered a standing army/navy necessary and made provisions for both in all original writings on the subject.
The clear, distinct lines between civilian authorities, like police & courts took care of civilian matters,
The military took care of foreign threats, and the lines were not to be crossed.

This was *Supposed* to ensure civilians had full benefits of 'Due Process' of civilian law and protections under the Constitution,
And the military never looked at civilians as an 'Enemy'.
(Constitution Classes in the Marines, which I understand they don't offer anymore to any branch of the service, a bad omen in my opinion)

Now, the UN is perfectly capable of doing 'Police Actions' and 'Peace Keeping' missions.
When you call out the US military there *Should* be a full scale conflict at hand, since that's entirely what the US military exists for.

If the rest of the world/UN can't get it done, diplomaticy has entirely failed, it's time for the shooting to begin,
And as we have learned time & time again, NO HALF MEASURES!
Steamroll the enemy, let the rest of the countries in the UN decide what to do after primary threats are removed (or extinct/obliterated).

We loose WAY TOO MANY good people trying to do half measures.
When no one can reason with a mad dog, you exterminate the mad dog and finish the threat, then let the appropriate authorities deal with their ends of things.

If it weren't for oil in most of the middle east, lithium in Afghanistan, etc. there wouldn't be a reason for America to get into these wars at all, and by extension, the anti-American sentiment there is currently.
The tail wagged the dog here, and has been wagging it since oil changed everything in the middle east.

No oil or easily reclaimable natural resources in Afghanistan is the reason it got dropped like a hot rock in '89 when the Soviets pulled out.
Lithium reserves changed everything...

As did the opium. But the new silk road is what counts.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Fairly close, but not quite.
Founders always considered a standing army/navy necessary and made provisions for both in all original writings on the subject.
The clear, distinct lines between civilian authorities, like police & courts took care of civilian matters,
The military took care of foreign threats, and the lines were not to be crossed.

This was *Supposed* to ensure civilians had full benefits of 'Due Process' of civilian law and protections under the Constitution,
And the military never looked at civilians as an 'Enemy'. But now the new administration is viewing conservatives as "Domestic Terrorists".
(Constitution Classes in the Marines, which I understand they don't offer anymore to any branch of the service, a bad omen in my opinion)

Now, the UN is perfectly capable of doing 'Police Actions' and 'Peace Keeping' missions. I've never really seen the UN as being "capable" at anything.
When you call out the US military there *Should* be a full scale conflict at hand, since that's entirely what the US military exists for.

If the rest of the world/UN can't get it done, diplomaticy has entirely failed, it's time for the shooting to begin,
And as we have learned time & time again, NO HALF MEASURES!
Steamroll the enemy, let the rest of the countries in the UN decide what to do after primary threats are removed (or extinct/obliterated). Agreed. All wars should be fought with WWII tactics, not Korean "War" or Vietnam tactics. But few have the stomach for that.

We loose WAY TOO MANY good people trying to do half measures.
When no one can reason with a mad dog, you exterminate the mad dog and finish the threat, then let the appropriate authorities deal with their ends of things. Agreed.

If it weren't for oil in most of the middle east, lithium in Afghanistan, etc. there wouldn't be a reason for America to get into these wars at all, and by extension, the anti-American sentiment there is currently.
The tail wagged the dog here, and has been wagging it since oil changed everything in the middle east.

No oil or easily reclaimable natural resources in Afghanistan is the reason it got dropped like a hot rock in '89 when the Soviets pulled out.
Lithium reserves changed everything... And which side of the political spectrum wants to go with battery-powered cars?

Hit the "Click to Expand" part to see my specific comments. I actually agree with some, but disagree with other parts of your post.

 

[JeepHammer]

And what about the Iranian soldiers who died during the Iran-Iraq War? A war we spent billions in, helped procure weapons, ignored a chemical attack, provided military intelligence, and trained specops forces. You can't have it both ways, concerning proxy wars, either both are ok, are neither.

You forgot Reagan/Bush supplied BOTH sides of that war.
Carter got us out of the chemical/biological warfare business by treaty,
And under that treaty the US was *Supposed* to DESTROY production facilities and stockpiles.

Instead, president ELECT (not sworn) brokered a high tech weapons deal with Iran, and continued to supply Iran through it the Iran/Iraq war.

Reagan/Bush also sold weapons, along with biological/chemical weapons plants,
TURN KEY plants to Iraq that under international treaty (and a war crime) were supposed to be destroyed.

Not only the plants, but artillery projectiles and bottle bombs to deliver those chemical/biological weapons.

The profits from those sales were funneled into other illegal wars congress wouldn't fund, like the so called 'Contras'...

Again, you might want to ask someone that trained mercenaries in Afghanistan & Central America (and North Africa).

It's no secret, the congressional investigation ended quietly enough, but concluded that not only had Reagan/Bush violated US & international law, committed war crimes,
But were responsible for cocaine smuggling into the US to continue funding the illegal wars after the Iran/Iraq war stopped.
This created the cocaine/crack epidemic by dumping cocaine on american inner cities.

And the last insult,
'Contras' (mercenaries) trained and equipped by the US went to work for drug cartels when the US couldn't find them anymore,
And when the drug cartels failed, they went to work for the actual communists that now control much of the cocaine trade in central & south america.

This because a senile old man actor duped millions of american voters, and GHWB was running the country for private capatolism interests.
Cocaine makes cash, cash flows up to the top in banking...

 

[JeepHammer]

As did the opium. But the new silk road is what counts.

Opium is a Taliban export.
Taliban will rape/kill your children if you don't grow a specific quantity of whatever they want.
Doesn't matter if the weather didn't cooperate or whatever.
Taliban doesn't distinguish private property, it all belongs to them the way they see it.

There is a reason the tribals held out against the Taliban and were willing to work with the Americans yet again after getting screwed royally in '89.

In '82-86 the biggest export in the tribals was carrots, followed by tubers & hay/feed stock.
The fine tribal export was a particular kind of goat wool/yarn, still the the MOST sought after by collectors of such things.
(And I'm one of the collectors)

These were SUBSTANCE farmers,
You can't feed opium to your children, you can't feed the livestock with opium,
There wasn't enough market for opium to make it a cash crop until the Taliban took over and traded opium for weapons...

Use some common sense here instead of listening to the far right propaganda demonizing all Afghans.
Every day the tribals sheltered & supported the US put their lives at serious risk from the Soviets just nerve gassing the entire villages, but they were steadfast supporters, risking not only their lives, but the life of everyone they knew.

Meanwhile in the US, idiots are burning down each other's houses over political signs in the yard, overrunning the US capitol building over lies/propaganda from enemies of the US, etc...

 

[NKBJ]

Opium is a Taliban export.
Taliban will rape/kill your children if you don't grow a specific quantity of whatever they want.
Doesn't matter if the weather didn't cooperate or whatever.
Taliban doesn't distinguish private property, it all belongs to them the way they see it.

There is a reason the tribals held out against the Taliban and were willing to work with the Americans yet again after getting screwed royally in '89.

In '82-86 the biggest export in the tribals was carrots, followed by tubers & hay/feed stock.
The fine tribal export was a particular kind of goat wool/yarn, still the the MOST sought after by collectors of such things.
(And I'm one of the collectors)

These were SUBSTANCE farmers,
You can't feed opium to your children, you can't feed the livestock with opium,
There wasn't enough market for opium to make it a cash crop until the Taliban took over and traded opium for weapons...

Use some common sense here instead of listening to the far right propaganda demonizing all Afghans.
Every day the tribals sheltered & supported the US put their lives at serious risk from the Soviets just nerve gassing the entire villages, but they were steadfast supporters, risking not only their lives, but the life of everyone they knew.

Meanwhile in the US, idiots are burning down each other's houses over political signs in the yard, overrunning the US capitol building over lies/propaganda from enemies of the US, etc...

When the taliban declared the opium ban it was like Muad'Dib showing the threat to shut down spice production. Since then the opium supply has been secured like was done during the VN involvement. It's just business.

 

[NKBJ]

You forgot Reagan/Bush supplied BOTH sides of that war.
Carter got us out of the chemical/biological warfare business by treaty,
And under that treaty the US was *Supposed* to DESTROY production facilities and stockpiles.

Instead, president ELECT (not sworn) brokered a high tech weapons deal with Iran, and continued to supply Iran through it the Iran/Iraq war.

Reagan/Bush also sold weapons, along with biological/chemical weapons plants,
TURN KEY plants to Iraq that under international treaty (and a war crime) were supposed to be destroyed.

Not only the plants, but artillery projectiles and bottle bombs to deliver those chemical/biological weapons.

The profits from those sales were funneled into other illegal wars congress wouldn't fund, like the so called 'Contras'...

Again, you might want to ask someone that trained mercenaries in Afghanistan & Central America (and North Africa).

It's no secret, the congressional investigation ended quietly enough, but concluded that not only had Reagan/Bush violated US & international law, committed war crimes,
But were responsible for cocaine smuggling into the US to continue funding the illegal wars after the Iran/Iraq war stopped.
This created the cocaine/crack epidemic by dumping cocaine on american inner cities.

And the last insult,
'Contras' (mercenaries) trained and equipped by the US went to work for drug cartels when the US couldn't find them anymore,
And when the drug cartels failed, they went to work for the actual communists that now control much of the cocaine trade in central & south america.

This because a senile old man actor duped millions of american voters, and GHWB was running the country for private capatolism interests.
Cocaine makes cash, cash flows up to the top in banking...

Yeah, so few people realize that GHWB ran the White House from March '81 to 2008.