Seeking 1911 opinions

[knot4reel]

Why is a $1k SA, S&W, Colt, Sig, STI, etc, better than the same price range Kimber ? Looking for knowledge based opinions here (hello CM) not just fan boi responses or interweb gossip. Not looking to start a brand war. Thanks in advance.

 

[Drail]

Because Kimber seems to be more inclined to spend money on advertising and trying to meet production quotas that are way over their capability. My biggest gripe with Kimber is the fact that they started this nonsense about "it just needs more breaking in" when one of their guns will not run right out of the box. And incredibly now everyone believes that all 1911s need to be "broken in" before they'll run. Before they started all that silliness you NEVER heard anyone claim a 1911 needs to be broken in before it will run. Kimber seems to believe they selling large numbers of mediocre guns is more important than building quality guns. Mass marketing.

 

[Spyco]

Sig is alright. Colt is just riding on a name, you get the same quality from Springfield for cheaper. S&W is good.

Kimber as stated before, good at advertising, so-so on working products.

 

[88E30M50]

If you compare a Kimber, feature by feature with another 1911, such as a Sig, you'll see the difference. Spend $900 on a Kimber and a Sig 1911 and the Sig will have a checkered front strap compared to the smooth front strap on the Kimber. The Sig will have night sights and probably G10 grips, but at least wood grips. The Kimber will have simple 3 dot sights and rubber grips. The Sig will have a stainless MSH compared to the Kimber's plastic MSH.

Now, I cannot knock Kimber's QC directly. All of mine have run very well, even the Ultra Carry that the internet says cannot get through a mag without a failure. My biggest issue with Kimber is that when you get into some of their up scale 1911s, you are looking at Dan Wesson prices, but without the Dan Wesson quality. Colt is a little different in my opinion. A Colt will bring you a forged frame and slide, but it too has a plastic MSH. Colts can be built very well or they can have issues that should never have gotten through their QC department. My Delta Elite had a sear that was not to spec and a lot of tool marks that were hidden under a low grade heavy bead blast finish on parts. Not what you would expect for a $1000 gun.

Springfields are nice and also come with a forged slide and frame, but beware of some of the older used ones. They were sourcing their frames from Brazil for a while and the quality on those can be hit or miss. My biggest issue with the Springfields is that they have an odd radius on the frame that limits the selection in beavertail grip safeties that can be fit. If you get a nice Springer fit with a beaver tail grip safety from the factory, that's a non-issue.

 

[knot4reel]

Thanks guys. I value opinions by knowledgeable folks. Keep em coming.

 

[M67]

As said before, Colt is riding a name, doesn't mean it's quality cause it has the horse

Kimber make a good 1911 up until a certain price point, then it jumps up cause all the pretty features. When you hit that $1200 price point, there's better guns out there. Even the $1000-$1200 ones I think the actual value in the Kimber goes away (with a few exceptions). I've had a plain Jane custom 2 for 6 years and it's seen 4-5 thousand rounds. Besides the finish wearing a ton, it's been a great pistol and extremely reliable even when caked in old ammo gunk.

As a suppressor host I'm looking at the TLE RL TFS

 

[VERT]

My wife has a a Kimber. It is very pretty and accurate. That's the only good thing I can say about it. I have 4 Smith & Wessons and I am very happy with them.

 

[NHT3]

If I'm buying a 1911 in the under 1000 bracket it will be a S&W or Series I Kimber.. I've owned some of the others but those two impressed me the most.

Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&quot] /[/FONT][FONT=&quot] RSO[/FONT]

 

[88E30M50]

If you're looking for a GI type 1911, it's hard to find a better deal than the CZ 1911A1. The initial run of those were built by Dan Wesson and were built to Dan Wesson quality levels. Back around Christmas, you could find them for under $700 which was a steal for a gun built to $1200 levels of quality.

 

[2A_Tom]

If you're looking for a GI type 1911, it's hard to find a better deal than the CZ 1911A1. The initial run of those were built by Dan Wesson and were built to Dan Wesson quality levels. Back around Christmas, you could find them for under $700 which was a steal for a gun built to $1200 levels of quality.

The cheapest I've seen this is $850. $700 would be a fabulous price for one.

The CZ 1911A1 is the best out of the box one I have ever seen.

 

[Cameramonkey]

As said before, Colt is riding a name, doesn't mean it's quality cause it has the horse

Kimber make a good 1911 up until a certain price point, then it jumps up cause all the pretty features. When you hit that $1200 price point, there's better guns out there. Even the $1000-$1200 ones I think the actual value in the Kimber goes away (with a few exceptions). I've had a plain Jane custom 2 for 6 years and it's seen 4-5 thousand rounds. Besides the finish wearing a ton, it's been a great pistol and extremely reliable even when caked in old ammo gunk.

As a suppressor host I'm looking at the TLE RL TFS

I'm not an expert by any means, but UNLESS its a 1980s or older vintage Colt that statement is correct. They USED to be excellent. From what I have seen and heard the new guns being made today, and possibly sometime in the mid 00s quality took a dive.

 

[churchmouse]

This is a loaded question.
I have my opinions based on getting deep into the platform and seeing what some folks do not.
I lean towards the SA's and make no bones about that.
I have had some Kimbers and was not impressed. Like Vert said....very pretty. Beyond that not so much for the price point.
See if you can get to the range with some folks that have some 1911's and run them. Find one that fits you.

 

[88E30M50]

This is a loasded question.
I have my opinions based on getting deep into the platform and seeing what some folks do not.
I lean towards the SA's and make no bones about that.
I have had some Kimbers and were no impressed. Like Vert said....very pretty. Beyond that not so much for the price point.
See if you can get to the range with some folks that have some 1911's and run them. Find one that fits you.

That's good advice. 1911s each have their own personality and you never know which one will speak to you until you shoot them. My personal bunch numbers only 10 of them right now and they run all the way from an RIA Compact at the low end to an Ed Brown Exec Carry at the upper end. My favorite of the bunch to shoot? The Remington R1S, closely followed by the CZ 1911 and then the Sig Railed Nickel after that. I don't know why the R1S feels better to me than the others, but it just does. The truth is though, they all feel good. Some speak to me more than others, but I'd never complain after spending a day shooting any of them. Even the old RIA. That little gun is weighty, but it's a shooter for sure.

 

[Dean C.]

Kimber - Congratulations you are paying for a pretty gun, I personally call them "The 1911 for someone who knows nothing about 1911's" I myself started with Kimber and upon learning of the difference in quality versus say Springfield, STI, Dan Wesson and Wilson Combat the Kimber was sold off pretty fast.

The finish on the Kimbers especially the painted guns left allot to be desired with the finish chipping off after 100 rounds or so. At the price point they are loaded with subpar quality Mim and plastic parts that other guns do not have. Hell I left a TLE II in the safe for a few months and upon retrieving it from the safe the "Stainless" had rust on the slide and frame yet even the carbon steel guns in the safe and other stainless guns were 100% fine and they had been in there the same amount of time or longer.

Now the CZ 1911 being suggested is a great gun and they can still be found, but keep in mind that CZ actually discontinued the pistols due to Dan Wessons time being better spent making more "Modern" 1911's so in order to bring the CZ up to speed (if you can find one) adding the extra parts (Sights, and Grip Safety) would be expensive if done by a proper pistol smith.

Now for the $1000 and under price range old model Springfield Armory MC Operators can be found and they are fantastic for the money and I love mine. The new production Colt Competition Pistol that can be had for right at $800 or so is a really nice pistol as well. CM's usual recommendation of the Springfield Range Officer series is a valid option as well.

 

[churchmouse]

Kimber - Congratulations you are paying for a pretty gun, I personally call them "The 1911 for someone who knows nothing about 1911's" I myself started with Kimber and upon learning of the difference in quality versus say Springfield, STI, Dan Wesson and Wilson Combat the Kimber was sold off pretty fast.

The finish on the Kimbers especially the painted guns left allot to be desired with the finish chipping off after 100 rounds or so. At the price point they are loaded with subpar quality Mim and plastic parts that other guns do not have. Hell I left a TLE II in the safe for a few months and upon retrieving it from the safe the "Stainless" had rust on the slide and frame yet even the carbon steel guns in the safe and other stainless guns were 100% fine and they had been in there the same amount of time or longer.

Now the CZ 1911 being suggested is a great gun and they can still be found, but keep in mind that CZ actually discontinued the pistols due to Dan Wessons time being better spent making more "Modern" 1911's so in order to bring the CZ up to speed (if you can find one) adding the extra parts (Sights, and Grip Safety) would be expensive if done by a proper pistol smith.

Now for the $1000 and under price range old model Springfield Armory MC Operators can be found and they are fantastic for the money and I love mine. The new production Colt Competition Pistol that can be had for right at $800 or so is a really nice pistol as well. CM's usual recommendation of the Springfield Range Officer series is a valid option as well.

It is hard to beat the RO for the money.
Not as pretty as some. Out of the box shooters. On point and reliable. With a few minor Mods they become very nice shooters.

 

[Fordtough25]

I'm planning on picking up a 1911 this summer, eyeballing a range officer or low end colt. I was looking at a kimber custom ii but think I will pass on it.

 

[xoregonian]

Why is a $1k SA, S&W, Colt, Sig, STI, etc, better than the same price range Kimber ? Looking for knowledge based opinions here (hello CM) not just fan boi responses or interweb gossip. Not looking to start a brand war. Thanks in advance.

Don't know if this is true or not. Kimber or not to Kimber? Glock or not to Glock? .45 or 9mm? I only own one 1911 and it's a Kimber.

LGS I bought this from was closing them out. 45ACP was expensive and they weren't selling. I got it for less than some of the other guns you mentioned. I thought like most people that Kimber was more marketing hype than anything else. Would I have paid over $1k? No. I got a good deal and helped an LGS out. I took it home, field stripped it, cleaned all the preservative off and lightly oiled it. Went to the range every day for a week, cleaned and oiled after each session and have had zero issues with it. I don't own any of the other brands you mentioned in 1911, so I don't know how they compare. I like the trigger on mine. It works for me. I don't know if anyone else would feel the same way so I would encourage them to try before they buy. I thought my wife's M&P Performance Center 9 was marketing hype before I shot it. Ported barrel, upgraded trigger, blah, blah ,blah. More money too. I shot it, then sat down and had a nice cup of STFU. Any of these guns could fall apart on me tomorrow, and if that happens I'll start a rant thread. I don't think that will happen though.

Come up with a budget and get the most gun you can, but shoot a bunch before you do. This is not the last 1911 I'll own. I don't know what I'll get next but I won't automatically rule anything out as we own Springfield, S&W, Sig, Beretta, and yes, Kimber handguns, and they all serve their purpose well. Good hunting. Post pics when you find something.

 

[Sirshredalot]

Colt is not all bad, though I have had bad experiences. It is my belief that for less than $1500 youre not going to get a "fitted" barrel or bushing.
Colt installs drop in barrels as I would assume most manufacturers do on "production" guns. I handled several 1991 colts that were very nice.

Kimber is the same as sig to me....they focus on features first...look at how many options kimber and sig both offer....dozens of different style, colors, rail/no rail, classic or modern, and numbers....Ive seen a lot of new kimbers that ran great out of the box.

Springfield is not an American made gun...so that would rule them out for me....so $.02.

the CZ is fantastic, but the cz1911a1 was limited to 1000 guns produced....if you can find one, buy it....I contacted CZ and they are not making any more...they dont even have parts for them....I tried to order a hammer and ...no go.

Smith is hit and miss on quality and the same as the others but youve got a decent chance of getting a good one...you hear leass complaints about the 1911's than their revolvers.

The $1k price mark is a tough field. $300 more gets you a dan wesson or a used les baer(maybe new if you shop around), $300 less get you almost the same quality with an imported gun...or an auto ordnance ...I think theyre made in USA....but probably a cast frame.

Sig offers a decent gun if you can tolerate the way they looks and can afford a custom made holster....the squared slide doesnt fit many standard 1911 holsters well.

If it was my money....Id handle as many colts IN PERSON as i could and pick the best one....regardless of features.

God bless
-Shred

 

[rob63]

I'm not a 1911 guru at all, but the gist of this thread seems to be...

You get what you pay for; which might be high quality or sometimes you are paying for slick advertising, excessive production costs, and a legacy brand name. It's funny how many threads you see where people only post that first part when giving advice. It's nice to see actual useful observations based on experience!

 

[Fordtough25]

I've owned a few colts and springfields previously, all ran great. Owned a sig taccops 1911 which also ran great. Heck I had an old Ballester Molina for years than never jammed! My one and only suck 1911 so far has been a ria compact. I've been thinking hard on what to get now and I can't decide! Decisions lol