Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[smokingman]

Reagan would have understood that Russia is not going for Ukraine, but rather what is on the other side of Ukraine, that being Poland and Romania - both NATO members.

IF Russia is allowed to get through Ukraine we will have a direct conflict with Russia and then there will be a direct nuclear threat to the continental United States.

This does not mean that I disagree with the China issue, except to say that they are not a military threat in any real way. We should remove their most favored trade status and disconnect trade from them, the sooner the better, but to ignore the Russian threat represents a perilous misjudgement.

Regards,

Doug

Regan would have sat down with Putin in a boat house and talked not just about problems,but how to solve them. Not something this administration could possible do(not after the clown show that was the 8th and final time Biden spoke to Putin in person,when Biden spoke like it was the 1980s. June of 2021).

Even Bush meet with Putin. Less you forget he admired the man and even spoke with him at a high school in Texas.

Clinton meet with Putin. Not just any meeting either, he flew in and went to Putin's house when he was not even president of Russia and again meet him multiple times after Putin was president.

Obama...meet with Putin privately at the G20 in 2014 and again in 2015.

Trump meet with Putin.

The real problem is the leadership we have now and the fact we overthrew an elected Ukrainian government to install our own in 2014. None of what is happening now would have without Victoria Nuland and a maiden revolution. She is now the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. Of course after her fk the EU(over who we choose to lead Ukraine during/after the revolution) you can guess how welcome she is in Europe.

The Putin bad message really did not start in the US media or US foreign policy until after the maiden revolution in Ukraine in 2014. Not even during the Georgian war(where he had support of the US in defeating terrorism, for the most part). Since though it has been a virtual wall of Putin bad,Russia bad...commonly call Russia,Russia,Russia by the right until recently.

You ignore the history and you follow the narrative.

*side note China has more fixed nuke silos than we do.

 

[Hawkeye]

Russia could encircle Kyiv and be pounding it into rubble with artillery and Ukrainian and US officials would still be insisting that Russia is on the verge of defeat and Ukraine is taking no casualties.

I think they already tried that last year. How'd that work out?

 

[Ark]

I think they already tried that last year. How'd that work out?

The propaganda? Well it got them a hundred billion dollars of our money at a time when our own citizens can't afford eggs at the store, so.

 

[Hawkeye]

The propaganda? Well it got them a hundred billion dollars of our money at a time when our own citizens can't afford eggs at the store, so.

Nice try, but not germane to what you were talking about. Which was, to remind you, Russia encircling Kiev. That is what i'm asking you about.

 

[Route 45]

The propaganda? Well it got them a hundred billion dollars of our money at a time when our own citizens can't afford eggs at the store, so.

Never knew that it is the government's responsibility to buy eggs for everyone. Exactly how is foreign policy spending related to your inability to come up with $2.79 for a dozen eggs at Kroger?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Never knew that it is the government's responsibility to buy eggs for everyone. Exactly how is foreign policy spending related to your inability to come up with $2.79 for a dozen eggs at Kroger?

View attachment 255973

I mean, government spending = more inflation = higher prices seems pretty obvious to me.

I'm not really in agreement with Ark on this, as I do see keeping communist aggressors at bay as something our government is wise to do, but at the same time refusing to see the simple fact that massive spending on military assistance for another country will create a drain on our own economy just seems silly. You can argue that it's worth the cost, (heck, you can also easily point out all the other totally ridiculous things our government is spending even MORE money on than Ukraine) and I'll agree with you, but I don't see how you can argue that it's completely unrelated to the cost of goods in our country.

(Side note, dang, eggs really are getting high. I think the last time I bought a dozen at Kroger they were like $1.19 for that exact carton.)

 

[Route 45]

I mean, government spending = more inflation = higher prices seems pretty obvious to me.

No.

Does Government Spending Cause Inflation?

Historically, economists have largely agreed that the link between government spending and inflation remains weak.

www.forbes.com

 

[AndreusMaximus]

No.

Does Government Spending Cause Inflation?

Historically, economists have largely agreed that the link between government spending and inflation remains weak.

www.forbes.com

That article is just playing games with semantics. Technically it's not government spending it's the government printing money. Unfortunately, the two have become virtually synonymous in our country today.

Unless you seriously are trying to argue that spending massive amounts of money on military assistance to another country doesn't put a strain on our economic resources?

 

[Route 45]

Unless you seriously are trying to argue that spending massive amounts of money on military assistance to another country doesn't put a strain on our economic resources?

Correct. Big picture time…

Aid to Ukraine Is a Small Fraction of the U.S. Defense Budget | National Review

A new analysis finds that congressionally approved funds to support Ukraine this year amount to about 5.6 percent of U.S. defense spending.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Correct. Big picture time…

Aid to Ukraine Is a Small Fraction of the U.S. Defense Budget | National Review

A new analysis finds that congressionally approved funds to support Ukraine this year amount to about 5.6 percent of U.S. defense spending.

www.nationalreview.com

Sounds to me that you're not saying that it doesn't put a strain on our economy, only that it's a relatively small strain in the perspective of overall spending, which I already acknowledged.

So I'll say it again, in case I didn't express myself clearly the first time: if the point you're driving at is that the strain placed on our economy by aiding Ukraine is a relatively small one that's well worth the investment, I'll agree with you. But if you're claiming that it is not placing any strain at all, that's the only thing I would have to disagree on.

 

[Route 45]

Sounds to me that you're not saying that it doesn't put a strain on our economy, only that it's a relatively small strain in the perspective of overall spending, which I already acknowledged.

So I'll say it again, in case I didn't express myself clearly the first time: if the point you're driving at is that the strain placed on our economy by aiding Ukraine is a relatively small one that's well worth the investment, I'll agree with you. But if you're claiming that it is not placing any strain at all, that's the only thing I would have to disagree on.

Looks like we are on the same page, then. Guess I was mostly focused on the caterwauling about the idea of the price of eggs being the direct result of a small percentage of foreign policy/defense spending, which is obviously absurd.

 

[SEIndSAM]

 

[smokingman]

Video claims to show Russian mercenary executed by sledgehammer

Russia’s mercenary Wagner Group on Monday said a former member who deserted the group while fighting in Ukraine was alive — hours after sharing a clip claiming to show the same man being exec…

nypost.com

 

[Libertarian01]

Regarding Reagan speaking with Gorbachev, it seems to be forgotten that Reagan QUADRUPLED the national debt to do so! When he entered office our national debt was about $1T. When he left it was about $4T. He spent them into massive economic destruction by increasing our military capacity far beyond what they were able to match, but they tried. Then they collapsed.

It was on the brink of collapse that he met with them, when they were crippled. He basically punched them in the face with a KO and they stood there staggered for a few years before falling over.

Regarding inflation we are going to have this for some years to come. It is being caused, in part, by a really good restructuring of our supply chains. We are decoupling with China and rebuilding manufacturing in North America. Mostly the US and Mexico. That said, it will take time and money. This money is helping to cause inflation.

The baby boomers are now at over 50% retired. They were the largest demographic generation in American history. There were so many of them they pushed down labor costs. They are being replaced by Gen X (that's me.) We are the smallest generation in recent decades. As there simply aren't enough of us to replace those olde codgers labor costs will go up. That is contributing to inflation.

Also as the boomers retire they are going to move some of their money out of the volatile stock market into more secure holdings. This will reduce, to a point, the availability of capital for investments and loans. This will contribute to inflation.

Regarding egg prices, see avian bird flu. Our chicken population has been severely reduced.

Soaring US egg prices put pressure on consumers, businesses

Chickens may not be able to fly very far, but the price of eggs is soaring. A lingering bird flu outbreak, combined with soaring feed, fuel and labor costs, has led to U.S. egg prices more than doubling over the past year, and hatched a lot of sticker shock on grocery aisles.

apnews.com

I believe that once we reshore production, adjust our workforce, and adapt to newer financial trends we will be far better off in about six (6) or seven (7) years. This corresponds to new production and the millennials hitting the workforce in numbers.

On top of all this Covid sped up unavoidable trends. People decided to retire early. Things shut down for a time that have never started up like the were before. In person meetings for example.

We are living through a great change that will present challenges to some and opportunities to others. To avoid the first and exploit the second will show wisdom.

Regards,

Doug

 

[nra4ever]

 

[erasure]

to Mitch, the Bidens and everybody else skimming off the aid, I can believe that.

wait a sec I thought russia already lost

 

[smokingman]

US leads the rest of the world with $196 billion given to Ukraine amid war with Russia

The U.S. under President Biden's leadership continues to send money, military supplies and humanitarian aid to Ukraine as the country continues fighting Russia.

www.foxnews.com

 

[JettaKnight]

To pick up on Doug's post, Clinton, Bush, Trump, they all net with Putin when he wasn't invading on a massive scale. Reagan wouldn't be having tea in bathhouse, he'd be kicking ass right now.

Do you really want Biden to head over and sign another Munich Agreement?

Plus, Biden is no match for Putin when it comes a meeting. Putin would leave with the Baltics in his pocket and Biden would leave with a lock of hair to sniff on the flight home.

 

[JettaKnight]

So now we trust the word from China?

I seriously don't understand why so many conservatives are more in love with the communist then with America.

 

[smokingman]

So now we trust the word from China?

I seriously don't understand why so many conservatives are more in love with the communist then with America.

I did not post it because I trust China. I posted it because the world is not standing with Ukraine.
Not even all of NATO countries are. BRICS certainly are not and they make up more of global GDP than all NATO countries combined. The idea the whole world is against Russia is propaganda.

The BRICS Nations Are Headed For 50% Of Global GDP By 2030. This Is What It Could Mean For Developing Global Supply Chains & Emerging Consumer Markets. - Silk Road Briefing

Op/Ed By Chris Devonshire-Ellis The Presidents and Prime Ministers of Brazil, China, India, Russia and South Africa have just returned from the annual BRICS summit, held this year in Brasilia. At the close of the event, the five leaders jointly issued a declaration of intent, part of the content...

www.silkroadbriefing.com

Percent of world GDP in NATO | TheGlobalEconomy.com

The average for 2020 based on 30 countries was 1.59 percent. The highest value was in the USA: 25.04 percent and the lowest value was in Montenegro: 0.01 percent. The indicator is available from 1980 to 2021. Below is a chart for all countries where data are available.

www.theglobaleconomy.com

Every branch of the US armed service failed recruiting goals for 2022,most by more than 20%.
Our military is shrinking(in manpower)and exploding in spending. We had more than 812 thousand more troops in 1989 than we do now. It has been decades of decline. I do not think we would do well in a two front war(not to mention we would have almost zero consumer goods or even the ability to ship things to stores without China,no company even makes oil filters in the USA).

U.S. Military Size 1985-2024

Armed forces personnel are active duty military personnel, including paramilitary forces if the training, organization, equipment, and control suggest they may be used to support or replace regular military forces.

www.macrotrends.net

The USA alone used to be 40%+ of global GDP. We have fallen a very long way.