Project Veritas: FBI Leaks Domestic Terror Imagery Guidance (Nearly Anything Patriotic)

[ditcherman]

I wrote this a bit ago, deleted it, read and thought some more and decided yes it was appropriate to post.

Forget the disclaimers on the slides, frankly they don't matter. It is the content of the slides which matter, and the content is disturbing if you are a patriotic American who has read the Constitution and our other founding documents, and have so much an an inkling of the basis of this Nation.

Frankly, you put the content of those slide in front of a group of people in that context, and their little disclaimer "The use or sharing of these symbols alone should not independently be considered evidence of MVE presence or affiliation or serve as an indicator of illegal activity, as many individuals use these symbols for their original, historic meaning, or other non-violent purposes" becomes utterly irrelevant. If you come on their radar and they find "When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty" along with another of their "indicators" such as "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"; bam you're on a list. To the professional bureaucrat you have ticked two boxes and are now a "threat" or "suspicious".

When I read the slides, the only thing which sprang to my mind were these quotes.

"... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, - That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security... "

John Adams’ statement, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other,” rings louder and louder in my ears. Sadly, I no longer have confidence there are a majority of moral or religious people in our government.

Most anyone who has ever served in the military, or in any public office in the United States, has sworn an oath to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” To me the quoted phrase means something. I may be wrong, as I haven't found anything explicit in the historical texts I normally refer too, but in reading the plain language a domestic enemy would be one who worked to subvert, ignore, or undermine the Constitution of the United States of America. (Any of it, you don't get to pick and choose)

The individuals producing the content identifying support for the founding principles of this Nation as "domestic terrorism" are dangerously close to identifying themselves as domestic enemies of the Republic. It is evident far too many of our elected officials, and their bureaucrat apparatchiks, do not honor the Oath they take. The current crop include far to many which actively work to subvert the Constitution and undermine this Nation's status and rule of law. (looking at you, Afghanistan exit, Southern border, failure to prosecute the insurrectionists in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis and other locales, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Fast and Furious, and on and on and on...)

Our forefathers who fought for this Nation's independence, and then the generations which have gone on to expand and protect this Nation must be enraged by what they are witnessing from the grave. I cannot fathom the level of disappointment and disgust they must feel watching the continued deterioration of this Nation.

The individuals who authored those slides ARE YOUR EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE PAID WITH MONEY CONFISCATED FROM YOU! I have an expectation that those in the employ of my government that I pay for, will honor their oath and know the basis of this Nation. Those slides clearly associate elements of our founding documents and the historical basis of this nation with undesireable individuals to be surveilled and contained. That is a problem! </rant>

Very well said.
The people who are the actual enemies of the republic are trying very hard, and probably succeeding, at redefining the definition of what they are themselves, the enemy of the republic.
It should be obvious what is happening but peoples’ vision is darkened.

 

[ditcherman]

What's funny is there are few institutions as conservative as law enforcement as a whole in this nation, yet like the military it's crediblity is constantly under assault from more and more political angles. It wasn't enough to turn liberals against law enforcement, now you have to turn conservatives as well. Then you hand wring about law and order while simultaneously denigrating the people on the ground maintaining it. One would wonder who profits from a weakened nation that's turned on it's own order keepers and force projectors. How many doomsday posts has INGO ran around Chicken Little style about over the past decade with no fruition? It's fun to go back and read them sometimes, but also sad. Hopefully the next generation who grows up with social media will understand it more and not be lead around the nose as easily to pay people to weaken their own country while constantly blaming "them" for doing it instead.

On the one hand I want to agree with you, and ask if the answer to the “ingo doomsday of the week club” part could be explained by the cross section of people here, i.e. grumpy old men.

On the other hand I want to say tell that to the people of Waco and Ruby Ridge.

It’s complicated.

 

[nonobaddog]

What's funny is there are few institutions as conservative as law enforcement as a whole in this nation,

Are you using this generalization about law enforcement to gloss over the left using the FBI, IRS, CIA, etc as weapons to further their political agenda?

 

[kiddchaos]

Let's make some more badass symbols. Please stand by...

 

[phylodog]

Won't find many who are more pro police than I am but the FBI lost me with Comey and Hillary. I understand that the leadership doesn't represent the men and women with boots on the ground but having with closely/alongside with the FBI for several years I can tell you that the leadership of that organization absolutely does dictate what the actual workers will focus on. The modern day FBI's largest priority and biggest accomplishment is justifying its own existence. Apparently political favors is the second priority, at least at HQ.

 

[ancjr]

On the other hand I want to say tell that to the people of Waco and Ruby Ridge.

...and that statement is anathema to a wide spectrum of the citizenry. Goes along with the fact that you have to admit you have a problem before you can fix it...

 

[BigRed]

What's funny is there are few institutions as conservative as law enforcement as a whole in this nation, yet like the military it's crediblity is constantly under assault from more and more political angles. It wasn't enough to turn liberals against law enforcement, now you have to turn conservatives as well. Then you hand wring about law and order while simultaneously denigrating the people on the ground maintaining it. One would wonder who profits from a weakened nation that's turned on it's own order keepers and force projectors. How many doomsday posts has INGO ran around Chicken Little style about over the past decade with no fruition? It's fun to go back and read them sometimes, but also sad. Hopefully the next generation who grows up with social media will understand it more and not be lead around the nose as easily to pay people to weaken their own country while constantly blaming "them" for doing it instead.

With the measure of respect due, I disagree.

 

[2tonic]

Most professionals can seperate their personal politics from law enforcement and deal with individuals and crimes as such. Suggesting they can't is just BLM propaganda with a twist, 'implicit bias' for conservatives.

You've no idea how much the FBI is involved with local violent crime and how wide spread some of the organized crime that fuels it runs. But it's all the same. I guess what are local police doing to alienate BLM supporters? I guess we should look at ourselves and find out why. Certainly there's no misinformation campaign with half-truths to outright lies being passed as fact to damage the credibility of the institution, right? Police are racist. Agents are political-ists. Same narratives, just tailored to different audiences, with the same result. A weakened nation moving toward chaos and infighting. The military is seeing the same attacks now. Think critically about why people would manufacture controversy and who's ultimtely profiting from this?

I'll leave the thread now, you either get it or you don't.

Are you suggesting, sir, that we place our trust in the "well developed sense of restraint" possessed by current FBI leadership?

 

[JD1966]

Well, I see a couple of quotes from Founding Fathers, as well as the Betsy Ross flag on that list. And the book of faces has spanked me for quoting a line from the Preamble to the Constitution.

All government agencies grew exponentially under the Obama administration.

Right from Obama's beginning, these agencies were politicized and weaponized.

Trump, a duck in the shooting gallery, was barely able to scratch the surface of problem, let alone address it.

Trump did fire Comey, but not much more. The self-feeding FBI continues on...


.

It blows me away how scared so many people are of Trump and how corrupt they will be to keep him from running again.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

To quote Dennis Prager "The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen".

Now that schools no longer teach cursive writing, there will come a day when the people will no longer be able the read the original documents of our founding fathers. Scary times...

 

[rob63]

I wholeheartedly agree with BBI that there are bad actors throughout social media that are constantly stirring the pot, and I wish people would quit falling for all of the nonsense.

That said, I also think the FBI is contributing to it by producing documents such as this that serve no actual purpose other than division since, as the disclaimer notes, the symbols are not evidence of any criminal activity.

 

[Shadow01]

Won't find many who are more pro police than I am but the FBI lost me with Comey and Hillary. I understand that the leadership doesn't represent the men and women with boots on the ground but having with closely/alongside with the FBI for several years I can tell you that the leadership of that organization absolutely does dictate what the actual workers will focus on. The modern day FBI's largest priority and biggest accomplishment is justifying its own existence. Apparently political favors is the second priority, at least at HQ.

Any rank and file that knew what comey was and how business was run and didn’t come forward is no better than comey. They put their career above the country. We have no need for them.

 

[Shadow01]

I wrote this a bit ago, deleted it, read and thought some more and decided yes it was appropriate to post.

Forget the disclaimers on the slides, frankly they don't matter. It is the content of the slides which matter, and the content is disturbing if you are a patriotic American who has read the Constitution and our other founding documents, and have so much an an inkling of the basis of this Nation.

Frankly, you put the content of those slides in front of a group of people in that context, and their little disclaimer "The use or sharing of these symbols alone should not independently be considered evidence of MVE presence or affiliation or serve as an indicator of illegal activity, as many individuals use these symbols for their original, historic meaning, or other non-violent purposes" becomes utterly irrelevant. If you come on their radar and they find "When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty" along with another of their "indicators" such as "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"; bam you're on a list. To the professional bureaucrat you have ticked two boxes and are now a "threat" or "suspicious".

When I read the slides, the only thing which sprang to my mind were these quotes.

"... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, - That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security... "

John Adams’ statement, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other,” rings louder and louder in my ears. Sadly, I no longer have confidence there are a majority of moral or religious people in our government.

Most anyone who has ever served in the military, or in any public office in the United States, has sworn an oath to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” To me the quoted phrase means something. I may be wrong, as I haven't found anything explicit in the historical texts I normally refer too, but in reading the plain language a domestic enemy would be one who worked to subvert, ignore, or undermine the Constitution of the United States of America. (Any of it, you don't get to pick and choose)

The individuals producing the content identifying support for the founding principles of this Nation as "domestic terrorism" are dangerously close to identifying themselves as domestic enemies of the Republic. It is evident far too many of our elected officials, and their bureaucrat apparatchiks, do not honor the Oath they take. The current crop include far to many which actively work to subvert the Constitution and undermine this Nation's status and rule of law. (looking at you, Afghanistan exit, Southern border, failure to prosecute the insurrectionists in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis and other locales, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Fast and Furious, and on and on and on...)

Our forefathers who fought for this Nation's independence, and then the generations which have gone on to expand and protect this Nation must be enraged by what they are witnessing from the grave. I cannot fathom the level of disappointment and disgust they must feel watching the continued deterioration of this Nation.

The individuals who authored those slides ARE YOUR EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE PAID WITH MONEY CONFISCATED FROM YOU! I have an expectation that those in the employ of my government that I pay for, will honor their oath and know the basis of this Nation. Those slides clearly associate elements of our founding documents and the historical basis of this nation with undesireable individuals to be surveilled and contained. That is a problem! </rant>

You made the list…

 

[ditcherman]

It blows me away how scared so many people are of Trump and how corrupt they will be to keep him from running again.

Not the biggest trump fan but this alone is why I would completely throw down for him.

 

[ditcherman]

You made the list…

Probably a long time ago.
Or we’re not doing it right.

 

[ditcherman]

To quote Dennis Prager "The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen".

Now that schools no longer teach cursive writing, there will come a day when the people will no longer be able the read the original documents of our founding fathers. Scary times...

I think it’s been reprinted somewhere.

I hope this isn’t a grumpy old man conspiracy theory. I can’t read Greek or Hebrew but I can still believe what has been translated.
Not saying it’s not sad, but I don’t see it as something that has to be scary.

 

[jason867]

It seems to me, that if one can read printing well enough, that they can also read cursive without much extra effort, whether they were taught cursive or not.

To me, the general shapes of most letters appear the same, between cursive and print.

And if someone can't recognize every cursive letter, then they should still reasonably be able to figure out what they're reading from the context of what they can recognize.

I was taught cursive in grade school. My writing and printing has always been terrible, but especially my cursive. I gave it up as soon as they stopped requiring me to use it, except for my (sloppy) signature.

Other than aesthetics, or speed of putting words to paper, I fail to see a need for cursive.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it's needed for signatures, but it does help.

 

[Keith_Indy]

I recalled a previous FBI product on motorcycle gangs that included this: https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ocgs/gallery/outlaw-motorcycle-gangs-omgs

I do recall seeing other types of notices for gangs in general and organized crime as well.

Still worrying to see things that I identify with on this current bulletin. On the other hand, violent militias do share some similar values, iconography, and historic interests.

Found some interesting reading during my research:

FBI Domestic Investigations and Operations Guide (DIOG)

The FBI’s Domestic Investigations and Operations Guide (DIOG) was revised and updated based on comments and feedback received since the original DIOG was issued on December 16, 2008. This new version was approved by Director Mueller on October 15, 2011. The changes primarily clarify and enhance...

vault.fbi.gov

First Responder Toolbox

www.dni.gov

 

[nonobaddog]

To quote Dennis Prager "The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen".

Now that schools no longer teach cursive writing, there will come a day when the people will no longer be able the read the original documents of our founding fathers. Scary times...

I remember that Star Trek episode - Kirk fixed that.

 

[printcraft]

Won't find many who are more pro police than I am but the FBI lost me with Comey and Hillary. I understand that the leadership doesn't represent the men and women with boots on the ground but having with closely/alongside with the FBI for several years I can tell you that the leadership of that organization absolutely does dictate what the actual workers will focus on. The modern day FBI's largest priority and biggest accomplishment is justifying its own existence. Apparently political favors is the second priority, at least at HQ.

Yep! Since when did “she didn’t mean to break the law” become a defense?

“We found drugs in your pocket.”
“These aren’t even my pants man!”