Leaked/breaking:Roe v. Wade expected to be overturned

[Timjoebillybob]

You guys are looking in the wrong place.



Fetus not being in the womb, doesn't count as a pregnancy.

Then why do they call it an ectopic pregnancy? And as many sources as you can cite that state womb/uterus I can find that don't specify.

 

[chipbennett]

Which is why I stated it doesn't have to be recent. How about 1828 Webster's?

Definition of ABORTION

the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: such as; spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation; induced expulsion of a human fetus… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Abortion | Definition, Procedure, Laws, & Facts

Abortion, the expulsion of a fetus from the uterus before it has reached the stage of viability (in human beings, usually about the 20th week of gestation). An abortion may occur spontaneously, in which case it is also called a miscarriage, or it may be brought on purposefully.

www.britannica.com

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Abortion

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Abortion

webstersdictionary1828.com

Going back almost 200 years abortion includes spontaneous miscarriage.
Heck 1. of your cite also lists it, "spontaneous abortion".

I think what's bothering me here is the reductio ad dictionarium. The term abortion is used lots of different ways. A miscarriage is a spontaneously aborted pregnancy; we know that's not what we're talking about. We all know what we're talking about here: elective abortion procedure that ends viable pregnancy.

I agree pretty much.

Can't find much, if anything to disagree with here.

And this should be the point. Playing semantics is only going to distract from achieving what we all (or most of us) agree on.

 

[chipbennett]

Then why do they call it an ectopic pregnancy? And as many sources as you can cite that state womb/uterus I can find that don't specify.

This is another example of reductio ad dictionarium. I don't understand the point. Yes, the term ectopic pregnancy includes the word pregnancy. It doesn't change the nature of the condition. A normal, viable pregnancy includes fertilization of the egg and implantation of the embryo in the endometrial lining of the uterus. An ectopic "pregnancy" is not that.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This is another example of reductio ad dictionarium. I don't understand the point. Yes, the term ectopic pregnancy includes the word pregnancy. It doesn't change the nature of the condition. A normal, viable pregnancy includes fertilization of the egg and implantation of the embryo in the endometrial lining of the uterus. An ectopic "pregnancy" is not that.

Yes that is a normal, viable pregnancy, an ectopic pregnancy is not normal or viable. But it's still a pregnancy.

 

[chipbennett]

Yes that is a normal, viable pregnancy, an ectopic pregnancy is not normal or viable. But it's still a pregnancy.

Yet - again - we all know what we're talking about, right? Why bust chops over someone using pregnancy in the context of normal, viable pregnancy, and excluding ectopic pregnancy because the latter is neither normal nor viable? How does that help advance an argument or policy position?

The abortion advocates play these kinds of semantics/word games, to obfuscate from reality. Let's not facilitate them.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yet - again - we all know what we're talking about, right? Why bust chops over someone using pregnancy in the context of normal, viable pregnancy, and excluding ectopic pregnancy because the latter is neither normal nor viable? How does that help advance an argument or policy position?

The abortion advocates play these kinds of semantics/word games, to obfuscate from reality. Let's not facilitate them.

I've told you why I brought it up, a couple of times IIRC. You're the one that started busting my chops over using it.

 

[chipbennett]

I've told you why I brought it up, a couple of times IIRC. You're the one that started busting my chops over using it.

It wasn't intentionally directed at you; your comments just happened to be where I jumped into the conversation.

I'd rather we focus on agreeing that elective abortion should be banned, and discussing what would make for passable legislation, and good law, around that point.

 

[BugI02]

THC has to fit into this conversation somewhere.

And how, even though dictionaries show multiple definitions for a word, only the one(s) a poster agrees with can be considered correct usages

 

[BugI02]

I think what's bothering me here is the reductio ad dictionarium. The term abortion is used lots of different ways. A miscarriage is a spontaneously aborted pregnancy; we know that's not what we're talking about. We all know what we're talking about here: elective abortion procedure that ends viable pregnancy.


And this should be the point. Playing semantics is only going to distract from achieving what we all (or most of us) agree on.

You mean other uses of a word based on additional definitions or usages?

Like:

a·bor·tion

noun
noun: abortion; plural noun: abortions
1.
the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

2.
an object or undertaking regarded by the speaker as unpleasant or badly made or carried out.

I learned on INGO that no definitions, although listed in a dictionary entry, not approved of by a poster for purposes of argumentation are valid nor will be acknowledged to exist

 

[chipbennett]

You mean other uses of a word based on additional definitions or usages?

Like:

Is there some way to make that definition relevant in the current context?

I learned on INGO that no definitions, although listed in a dictionary entry, not approved of by a poster for purposes of argumentation are valid nor will be acknowledged to exist

And what you describe is reductio ad dictionarium. I know it's INGO, and all...

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The rules committee added an amendment to the bill. Caps the rape/incest exception at 12 weeks gestational age for those under 16 and 8 for those 16 and over.
https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/l...day-2-brings-abortion-taxpayer-refund-debate/

 

[chipbennett]

The rules committee added an amendment to the bill. Caps the rape/incest exception at 12 weeks gestational age for those under 16 and 8 for those 16 and over.
https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/l...day-2-brings-abortion-taxpayer-refund-debate/

I'm curious about the reasoning for a different gestational limit based on the age of the mother? What is the rationale, whether viewed as additional time for a younger mother, or less time for an older mother?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I'm curious about the reasoning for a different gestational limit based on the age of the mother? What is the rationale, whether viewed as additional time for a younger mother, or less time for an older mother?

It sounded to me like they were saying that the additional four weeks was because girls younger than 16 have less regular menstrual cycles and so it would take them longer to realize they're pregnant.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I'm curious about the reasoning for a different gestational limit based on the age of the mother? What is the rationale, whether viewed as additional time for a younger mother, or less time for an older mother?

I'm curious as well, only thing I can think of is that generally speaking the younger you are the less mature you are. And this is to give them more time to decide. Well and now that I typed it, I thought of another. 16 is the general age of consent in IN with some exceptions. They may have made a longer gestational limit for those under the age of consent who may not have wanted to out their boyfriend. I'm also and this is strictly a WAG but wondering if perhaps girls under 16 are more likely to suffer from incest than older girls? If so perhaps it might give them some additional time to find help and/or decide they need to find help.

It sounded to me like they were saying that the additional four weeks was because girls younger than 16 have less regular menstrual cycles and so it would take them longer to realize they're pregnant.

This is also a good possibility.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Chief Justice Roberts Lobbied Court Conservatives Hard To Salvage Roe: Report | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

 

[jamil]

Are you serious? They have been redefining a lot of words lately.

Oh. I get that definitions change. Like Webster or whoever changed the definition of “female” a few days ago. So you’re saying… woke people have changed the dictionary definition of abortion?

 

[jamil]

Chief Justice Roberts Lobbied Court Conservatives Hard To Salvage Roe: Report | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

So maybe the theory that the leak came from conservatives could be true.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So maybe the theory that the leak came from conservatives could be true.

Who knows. I’m thinking if it did, we’d surely know the culprit by now.

 

[BigRed]

Chief Justice Roberts Lobbied Court Conservatives Hard To Salvage Roe: Report | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Could be.



I learned Roberts is a worthless piece of **** on June 28, 2012.

 

[Drewski]

A bad thing about digital pics is that you take so many and lose track of plenty of good ones. I was digging through a virtual stack of em the other day and found this gem I didn’t even know I had. Gotta be from 10 years ago.