Leaked/breaking:Roe v. Wade expected to be overturned

[DoggyDaddy]

Heard Kamala Harris was suppose to show up in Indy today at statehouse, and saw earlier all the pro-choice nuts at the statehouse. Picture looked like they were inside but had heard no pro-life people were to be allowed to protest....? As is, my feelings is the Republicans in office are all pro-choice. None of mine in my district had time to respond to my emails, and the emails they sent out in recent days have nothing about the abortion issue. They going to go from abortion before 22 weeks to legal abortion by 15 months which does nothing since 99% are done by then, also no criminal action for those performing abortions. Very sad....but guess we wait to see what the RINO's do.

At 15 months, the child would be 6 months old...

 

[JCSR]

 

[DragonGunner]

At 15 months, the child would be 6 months old...

Oops… fat fingered on the phone again. Lol

 

[Timjoebillybob]

By definition, it is not an abortion. Abortion requires termination of a viable pregnancy.

Can you point me to any definition where it states viable?

"Wrong part of the uterus" is, well... wrong part of the uterus. Implantation in such places is not viable.


The child can't survive, through full gestation/to birth, in any ectopic pregnancy locations. (The exceptions can, I think, be counted on one hand?)

I never said it was.

I would not consider it murder to take the life of the unborn child in the case where it is terminally ill and threatening the life of the mother. It would be tragic, but not murder. The life is not taken with any ill intent, but sadly, to save the life of the mother.


Miscarriage is also not abortion. Treatment for removal of a fetus following a miscarriage is also not an abortion.

I agree about a D&C following a miscarriage, the pregnancy is already ended. And actually both of them.​

abortion noun (END OF PREGNANCY)​

C1 [ C or U ]
the intentional ending of a pregnancy:
She decided to have/get an abortion.
Abortion is illegal in some countries.


[ C or U ] medical specialized
the early, unintentional ending of a pregnancy when a baby or young animal is born too early and dies before it is fully developed:

abortion

1. the intentional ending of a pregnancy: 2. the early, unintentional ending…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Synonyms
miscarriage

spontaneous abortion

Definition of abortion​

1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: such as ​

a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare miscarriage ​

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion ​

Note that the other side likes to play semantic games here, so let me be clear. When I say "abortion", I am referring to the intentional, medical intervention (through medication or procedure) to end a viable pregnancy. A pregnancy not in the womb is not viable, cannot be carried safely to term for either the unborn or for the mother, and will result in death of the unborn, and death or serious bodily harm to the mother.

(Even Planned Parenthood does not consider ectopic pregnancy treatment or miscarriage removal treatment to constitute abortion.)

Honestly I don't really care what planned parenthood thinks.

That may be what you are referring to. Again can you show me any dictionary that states viable? Again I never said it was viable. In fact if you look at my original post I stated that the child will die and the most most likely suffer serious injury or death.

Ectopic pregnancy is treated with a specific medicine (not the same medicines used for abortion), or via laparoscopic surgery to remove ectopic pregnancy (not the same procedure used to perform an abortion).

They're just not the same, and should not be called the same or considered to be the same.

Yes I know how they do it.

Right - which is why I think it very important that our side speak correctly and knowledgeably regarding the medical procedures being discussed. It is both a logical fallacy to focus on things like ectopic pregnancy as a justification for elective abortion, and potentially a huge risk to pregnant women, who may be misled enough by that logical fallacy that they avoid getting medical treatment for a life-threatening condition like ectopic pregnancy.

I'm not focusing on it as a justification for elective abortion. And that is why they don't generally use that word, they use things like procedure or such. I'm focusing on it as an example of a member here sheer and utter (word I can't say). The one that posted this.

If the life of the mother is at stake, do everything you can to deliver the baby and provide as much life saving care as possible.

That's not an abortion and should not be performed by an abortionist.

To let the doctor make that decision and to leave it up to a (possibly liberal) prosecutor to prosecute is a recipe for disaster.

 

[BigRed]

Anyone going to greet her at the airport today? Make sure and tell her INGO says "Hey gurl".

Kamala Harris to visit Indiana as state lawmakers set to debate proposed abortion ban bill

Kamala Harris will meet with lawmakers in Indianapolis Monday for the start of the Indiana General Assembly's special session to debate a near-total ban on abortion.

www.foxnews.com

VP Harris gives abortion access remarks ahead of Indiana’s special session

INDIANAPOLIS — Vice President Kamala Harris met with Indiana’s Democratic lawmakers Monday morning for a roundtable discussion. Vice President Harris spent nearly 8 minutes giving remar…

fox59.com

What a clown.

 

[jamil]

This **** is getting pedantic even for INGO standards.

 

[Ingomike]

Again can you show me any dictionary that states viable?

Let me rephrase how I read this request. In the leftist controlled areas of academia and publishing could you find a definition for your conservative beliefs?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This **** is getting pedantic even for INGO standards.

Yeah, I'm thinking of changing my name to Timjamilbillybob.

Let me rephrase how I read this request. In the leftist controlled areas of academia and publishing could you find a definition for your conservative beliefs?

I take it you couldn't find one either? Heck it doesn't even have to be recent.

 

[Ingomike]

I take it you couldn't find one either? Heck it doesn't even have to be recent.

I just explained what you posted, with a clear and correct explanation…

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I just explained what you posted, with a clear and correct explanation…

And are you suggesting academia and publishing have been controlled by the left for all time? I'll stick with my question. And add another one.

You couldn't find a source either?

Could that be because there isn't one because it's incorrect?

 

[Ingomike]

And are you suggesting academia and publishing have been controlled by the left for all time? I'll stick with my question. And add another one.

You couldn't find a source either?

Could that be because there isn't one because it's incorrect?

I have no idea what you a asking for, I only explained your TPTB bias. Yes academia and publishing have been controlled by leftists for a long time. Definitions are changed all the time, just look at how they changed the definition of vaccine so it could apply to DNA altering injections…

 

[AndreusMaximus]

How would you word it? It states a Dr has to have a reasonable belief.

Partial-birth and dismemberment abortions should be banned outright as they are never necessary. Then it should be clarified an abortion procedure that will end the life of the child can only be done if "no other medical procedure is sufficient to save the mother's life."

There's pretty much nothing the legislature can do about liberal prosecutors. And I don't think most places in IN have those.

One big thing it could do would be to give the father of the child standing to sue an abortionist in civil court if the abortionist kills his child in an illegal manner. This would make sense, too, since parents are allowed to sue a doctor who kills their child through malpractice in other cases. Having this as a possibility would at mean there's at least something to keep an abortionist in a liberal county honest. And yes, most counties in Indiana don't have liberal prosecutors, but the two main ones that do (Marion and Monroe) have already concentrated most abortion clinics between the two of them.

That and the rape/incest without a police report. But I see a problem with requiring one as well, innocent guys being dragged through the wringer and possibly put in jail/prison. And I honestly don't think it would do anything. Girl goes into the police station "I was rape" LEO "When and by who"? Girl "I think it was 2 months ago when I passed out at a party" LEO All it would do is make IN the "rapingist" state in the Union. That and seriously drive up the amount of DNA tests done.

I guess the main idea of requiring a police report is that there is at least some penalty if, hypothetically, it can ever be proven that a woman lied on one. The odds of it ever being proven are probably quite low in most cases, but there's still a world of difference between the law saying "If it is proven that you lied there will be consequences" vs "Don't lie, but if you do lie there are absolutely no consequence for you whatsoever, no matter what." If requiring a police report has too man downsides, maybe just add a clause into the law that provides the same penalty for a woman who lies about being raped to obtain an abortion as she would receive if she filed a false police report.

 

[jamil]

Yeah, I'm thinking of changing my name to Timjamilbillybob.

THC has to fit into this conversation somewhere.

 

[jamil]

Let me rephrase how I read this request. In the leftist controlled areas of academia and publishing could you find a definition for your conservative beliefs?

So now there has to be a left and right version of dictionaries?

 

[KLB]

So now there has to be a left and right version of dictionaries?

Are you serious? They have been redefining a lot of words lately.

 

[KLB]

And are you suggesting academia and publishing have been controlled by the left for all time? I'll stick with my question. And add another one.

You couldn't find a source either?

Could that be because there isn't one because it's incorrect?

You guys are looking in the wrong place.

pregnant​

(ˈprɛɡnənt)
adj
1. (Gynaecology & Obstetrics) carrying a fetus or fetuses within the womb

Fetus not being in the womb, doesn't count as a pregnancy.

 

[Ingomike]

So now there has to be a left and right version of dictionaries?

As far as I know only left influenced dictionaries exist. Are you aware of conservatives changing the definitions of words regularly like the left does? I am not…

 

[chipbennett]

Can you point me to any definition where it states viable?

Do I need to? That the pregnancy is viable is inherent in the procedure (otherwise, an abortion procedure would not be required).

"An abortion is a procedure to end a pregnancy."

Let's break that down:

1. A procedure (medical or surgical): i.e. an intentional intervention in an otherwise viable pregnancy. (Note: also referred to as an induced, vs a spontaneous, abortion.)
2. To end a pregnancy: i.e. a pregnancy that would not end on its own, i.e. a pregnancy that is otherwise viable.

In a medical abortion procedure, specific drugs are taken that cause the mother's uterus to expel the fetus and placenta. In a surgical abortion procedure, the uterus is entered through the cervix, and the fetus is cut apart and then vacuumed out of the uterus (a "dilation and evacuation" or "D&E").

A spontaneous miscarriage is not an abortion procedure. Removal of miscarried tissue is not an abortion procedure. And treatment of an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion procedure. An ectopic pregnancy removed from the cervix is not a viable pregnancy, because the cervix, while part of the uterus, is not the part of the uterus intended to support the developing fetus and its placenta.

This seems silly to split hairs over, especially since I think you and I are pretty much on the same page here, regarding the underlying morality and public policy questions.

My concern is with people who think that a non-viable ectopic pregnancy can be "treated" by removing the fetus from wherever it is implanted, and moving/implanting it into the uterus (not currently possible with current medical technology), or that in all cases that the life of the mother is at risk, the developing fetus can be safely kept alive (often yes, and particularly later in the pregnancy - but not always, particularly during the first trimester). My concern is with people who would jeopardize the possibility of passing legislation that bans elective abortion (covering 98.5% of all abortions), because they insist on ideological purity of the legislation (e.g. refusing to accept rape/incest exceptions). (I would prefer an abortion ban that includes only risk of life of the mother as an exception, but would prefer to see the 98.5% of election abortions banned than see no abortions banned because we can't get legislation passed.)

 

[chipbennett]

Are you serious? They have been redefining a lot of words lately.

Not just lately, though they have been on a bit of a tear of late ("vaccine", "woman", "recession"). I first noticed it when "civilian" was redefined, several years ago.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I have no idea what you a asking for, I only explained your TPTB bias. Yes academia and publishing have been controlled by leftists for a long time. Definitions are changed all the time, just look at how they changed the definition of vaccine so it could apply to DNA altering injections…

Which is why I stated it doesn't have to be recent. How about 1828 Webster's?

Do I need to? That the pregnancy is viable is inherent in the procedure (otherwise, an abortion procedure would not be required).

"An abortion is a procedure to end a pregnancy."

Let's break that down:

1. A procedure (medical or surgical): i.e. an intentional intervention in an otherwise viable pregnancy. (Note: also referred to as an induced, vs a spontaneous, abortion.)
2. To end a pregnancy: i.e. a pregnancy that would not end on its own, i.e. a pregnancy that is otherwise viable.

In a medical abortion procedure, specific drugs are taken that cause the mother's uterus to expel the fetus and placenta. In a surgical abortion procedure, the uterus is entered through the cervix, and the fetus is cut apart and then vacuumed out of the uterus (a "dilation and evacuation" or "D&E").

A spontaneous miscarriage is not an abortion procedure. Removal of miscarried tissue is not an abortion procedure. And treatment of an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion procedure. An ectopic pregnancy removed from the cervix is not a viable pregnancy, because the cervix, while part of the uterus, is not the part of the uterus intended to support the developing fetus and its placenta.

Definition of ABORTION

the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: such as; spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation; induced expulsion of a human fetus… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Abortion | Definition, Procedure, Laws, & Facts

Abortion, the expulsion of a fetus from the uterus before it has reached the stage of viability (in human beings, usually about the 20th week of gestation). An abortion may occur spontaneously, in which case it is also called a miscarriage, or it may be brought on purposefully.

www.britannica.com

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Abortion

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Abortion

webstersdictionary1828.com

Going back almost 200 years abortion includes spontaneous miscarriage.
Heck 1. of your cite also lists it, "spontaneous abortion".

This seems silly to split hairs over, especially since I think you and I are pretty much on the same page here, regarding the underlying morality and public policy questions.

I agree pretty much.

My concern is with people who think that a non-viable ectopic pregnancy can be "treated" by removing the fetus from wherever it is implanted, and moving/implanting it into the uterus (not currently possible with current medical technology), or that in all cases that the life of the mother is at risk, the developing fetus can be safely kept alive (often yes, and particularly later in the pregnancy - but not always, particularly during the first trimester). My concern is with people who would jeopardize the possibility of passing legislation that bans elective abortion (covering 98.5% of all abortions), because they insist on ideological purity of the legislation (e.g. refusing to accept rape/incest exceptions). (I would prefer an abortion ban that includes only risk of life of the mother as an exception, but would prefer to see the 98.5% of election abortions banned than see no abortions banned because we can't get legislation passed.)

Can't find much, if anything to disagree with here.