Larry Vickers bans Appendix Carry in his pistol classes

[BehindBlueI's]

As for having a ND by carrying AIWB, I don't get it. If you're using a quality holster, you shouldn't have any problems. And there is no reason to be in a hurry to re-holster your gun. In a self defense situation, you shouldn't be in a hurry to holster anyway, you should be scanning the area for more threats. When the gun goes in the holster, it should be calm.

That's all true, but it also relies on "should". Let's keep in mind the context here. Relatively large classes of people of mixed skill levels with mixed equipment. People get tired, people get sloppy, and what we should do doesn't always translate in to what we actually do.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I wonder if Tex Grebner ever thinks about how glad he is that he never practiced his quick draw from an AIWB holster?

 

[chezuki]

I wonder if Tex Grebner ever thinks about how glad he is that he never practiced his quick draw from an AIWB holster?

He'd have been fine... I don't believe there is a AIWB Serpa model.

 

[HoughMade]

Because Tommy never sits because he is so danged tactical and stuff?

Come off it Skippy, Rule 2 only applies to other people, not to your own body.

 

[rhino]

He'd have been fine... I don't believe there is a AIWB Serpa model.

Although . . . if one existed, digging in the front of one's trousers to locate and depress the button to release the gun might provide some amusing albeit unpleasant visuals.

 

[sbu sailor]

Exactly.
Use your equipment. Practice with your chosen EDC gear. Let muscle memory get the gun out and on target while you assess.

FIFY

 

[cedartop]

Appendix Carry Lots of trainers weighing in on this. Here is another one, though his article is a bit ambiguous. I get the impression he allows it in more advanced classes. From what I have seen, that is how he carry's.

 

[lovemachine]

That's all true, but it also relies on "should". Let's keep in mind the context here. Relatively large classes of people of mixed skill levels with mixed equipment. People get tired, people get sloppy, and what we should do doesn't always translate in to what we actually do.

But what about that saying, "you'll fight how you train"? Granted I have not taken a Force On Force class, and I'm sure that in a real life scenario things are going to be a lot different, but I still believe when that time comes you'll follow body memory from how you were training.

The classes I have taken, the instructors always reminded the class there is no hurry to re-holster the gun. You scan for more threats, while keeping your gun on the current attacker, and when you are positive things are calm, you holster.

 

[churchmouse]

FIFY

Grammar NAZI.........:-)

 

[churchmouse]

I feel somewhat ashamed of what is going to be a thread jack. But it has been quiet around here for some time.

Holster position in the clinch or rolling around on the ground... Let me start by saying I try to avoid the clinch these days. There was a time I was very comfortable in the clinch and pretty good there. 25 years of no cardio work has left me less effective here. I can still make it the worst 2 minutes of your life, but I am a hollow shell of my former self. My rolling around with ICP last year left me thinking both lungs might explode and that I am not 22 years old, anymore even though mentally I see myself there.

Enough setting the scene. If you and I are banging around in the clinch and you carry appendix. While you have a better chance of getting hands on your gun in a firing grip with either hand so do I. In the clinch that gun in the holster is going to be noticed. I do not have to clear the gun from the holster to shoot. I just have to clear the trigger guard. You as the holster wearer do not have that same luxury. If this happens it will test Rhino's dangling bits theory. ( I have more to say on that subject but I am going to show restraint and leave it alone)

There are advantages and disadvantages to each holster position. I don't care what some one else does, because I am not a liberal. I don't think there is one position or holster or method that is fool proof. Bad things can happen no matter where you carry. Lots of good things can happen as well.

It is Larry Vickers class and his insurance and I am all in favor of him doing what he thinks is best.

Good points on The Clinch.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Appendix carry is by far the best and most comfortable carry. Try drawing your weapon while sitting, appendix is the clear winner in that category.

If you make that CROSSDRAW AIWB, I will agree with you. The normal AIWB is extremely uncomfortable for me. I prefer the 3-4:00 position of IWB over AIWB—always. However, the cross draw with the holster at 10-11:00 works nicely in the car, in the house, on a star or with a mouse—ow, wait, that's green eggs and ham stiff for the grandkids.

Still, if a guy wants to ban AIWB, it is his call. I will not be training with him anyway (no idea who he is and not interest in pursuing it—he is probably a great guy and great instructor but I have no knowledge of him), so it won't affect me.

 

[rhino]

If you make that CROSSDRAW AIWB, I will agree with you. The normal AIWB is extremely uncomfortable for me. I prefer the 3-4:00 position of IWB over AIWB—always. However, the cross draw with the holster at 10-11:00 works nicely in the car, in the house, on a star or with a mouse—ow, wait, that's green eggs and ham stiff for the grandkids.

Still, if a guy wants to ban AIWB, it is his call. I will not be training with him anyway (no idea who he is and not interest in pursuing it—he is probably a great guy and great instructor but I have no knowledge of him), so it won't affect me.

Regardless of his position on AIWB holsters in his classes, if you're a student of the use of firearms for defense (or combat) , you would benefit from at learning who Larry Vickers is. Google him sometime.

 

[Woobie]

Regardless of his position on AIWB holsters in his classes, if you're a student of the use of firearms for defense (or combat) , you would benefit from at learning who Larry Vickers is. Google him sometime.

In an industry filled with the likes of James Yeager, Corey and Erica and others whose claims of operaterrific awesomeness wind up being unsubstantiated, LAV is a true BTDT type of guy. 15 years with SFOD-D pretty much says it all.

 

[Coach]

Come off it Skippy, Rule 2 only applies to other people, not to your own body.

you

I could agree if we are talking about lower extremities during the draw stroke (wherever that holster is) or re holstering but anything else is the proverbial accident looking for the place to happen. If you are sweeping your hand during the draw stroke or during re holstering or pointing you gun at yourself that is a violation of Rule 2. unless you are willing and desire to shoot your self.

 

[bwframe]

Those that are seasoned to carrying overall shouldn't have a problem with appendix carry. It's those who are new to handgun handling overall that are concerning, on top of those who overestimate their abilities. I certainly understand why instructors limit the practice.

Can those who appendix carry holster their gun without pointing it at themselves? 100% of the time?

 

[rhino]

Those that are seasoned to carrying overall shouldn't have a problem with appendix carry. It's those who are new to handgun handling overall that are concerning on top of those who overestimate their abilities. I certainly understand why instructors limit the practice.

Can those who appendix carry holster their gun without pointing it at themselves? 100% of the time?

No, but I don't know of any method of carry that is successful at avoiding it 100% of the time.

 

[lovemachine]

[video=youtube_share;L41We2IbLOw]http://youtu.be/L41We2IbLOw[/video]

 

[bwframe]

No, but I don't know of any method of carry that is successful at avoiding it 100% of the time.

3:00 does it for me. Maybe I'm just overly careful?

 

[rvb]

Can those who appendix carry holster their gun without pointing it at themselves? 100% of the time?

I can.
But I take the holster off, put gun in holster, then put holster/gun back on pants/belt when I junk carry. Not great in a class/training environment. When I get the urge to practice junk draws I grab a blue gun.

-rvb

 

[bwframe]

I can.
But I take the holster off, put gun in holster, then put holster/gun back on pants/belt when I junk carry. Not great in a class/training environment. When I get the urge to practice junk draws I grab a blue gun...

We should promote this sort of wise gun handling as a "rule" for appendix carry.