Larry Vickers bans Appendix Carry in his pistol classes

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • sbu sailor

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 16, 2015
    355
    18
    South of Center...
    Appendix carry I've always felt is a bad way to carry. Yeah I know some of you average joes and also tactical trainers that think it's your way or the highway, like appendix carry. I don't. I don't like there to even be a chance my balls can get blown off. And that's too close of a chance.
    faster? Eh that's debatable and maybe for some it is but for me it's not. I'm not the fastest anymore anyways but I'm faster than some and I'll take my chances on other variables i can control.
    as far as being able to draw my pistol when I'm sitting down I have no problem now. Also in the car I have a separate holster I can use. Problem solved. Nuts safe. Freedom preserved.
    good on Larry Vickers for not wanting to have someone else's shredded nuts on his conscience or insurance :):

    Did you miss this one TT? :stickpoke: Yeager says it's cool...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WxdhA0Y1q9Y
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    For what it's worth, unless one's scrotal equipment extends laterally beyond their crotchal region, the muzzle of the gun won't be pointed at the dangly bits with true appendix carry. The muzzle will point at the front of the hip and thigh, perhaps the femoral artery. To have the muzzle pointed at one's junk, the gun has to be positioned behind the belt buckle, does it not?
     

    EricG

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Nov 19, 2013
    566
    28
    NWI
    Im not sure where Larry is going with this. The same dangers present themselves when reholstering at 1, 3 or 4 o'clock carry.
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,687
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    I would disagree with one and two at the least. I'm not sure where he's being ambushed or where people are starting their attack by tackling. This is one of the issues with planning to defend when you don't really know what you're defending against.

    I would disagree with your disagreement, and so would many of the guys who spend a lot of time teaching and training clinch, and H2H in a WBE. (#2)
     

    Kirk Freeman

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Mar 9, 2008
    47,969
    113
    Lafayette, Indiana
    For what it's worth, unless one's scrotal equipment extends laterally beyond their crotchal region, the muzzle of the gun won't be pointed at the dangly bits with true appendix carry.

    Because Tommy never sits because he is so danged tactical and stuff?
     

    Kirk Freeman

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Mar 9, 2008
    47,969
    113
    Lafayette, Indiana
    Let's start of list of Tommies that have shot themselves vs. a list of Tommies that have been clinched (bro hugs don't count) on tH3 d34dly str33tz.

    We are a much larger threat to ourselves than others are threats to us.
     

    BehindBlueI's

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    29   0   0
    Oct 3, 2012
    25,890
    113
    Now that I'm on an actual computer and not on my phone.

    If it works for you, fine. However make sure it actually works for YOU in YOUR circumstances, not someone else and their situation. If I was routinely on a crowded subway and people bumped into me, that would be a valid concern for me. I cannot think of a single instance in the past year of someone bumping into me and noticing my gun, though, so that's irrelevant to me.

    Is "counter ambush" really a valid concern for you? Or are you more concerned with random violence? If you're set to testify against a gangbanger, then counter ambush becomes more realistic. If you've got a crazy ex who's looking to punch your ticket, again, valid concern. Most of us aren't in much danger from specific credible threats where we're going to be shot at before we know there's danger. If we're victimized at all, we're random and being targeted for robbery, a sex crime, etc. Those don't start with shooting.

    The tackle thing is really not a realistic concern for most of us. Maybe if you're a bouncer in a college town with a big football program or wrestling program? I dunno. I invite you to pick 100 random assault reports from your local PD and see how many start with a tackle or clinch, though. Maybe it is a big deal in your locale. What people do in training isn't what's going to show that, though. I've been assaulted or attempted to be assaulted on the job several times, and none were a tackle. I deal with people assaulted every day, and I can't think of any that started with a tackle or clinch. Zero. Hit with a pipe, had a weapon brandished, punched, kicked, yes. Sometimes they go to the ground, yes. Generally not by design. Most people suck at fighting and they just sort of wind up there.

    Strong side hip remains my default position. If I have other concerns take the lead, such as the need for deeper concealment, then I've changed. I'm not saying don't carry like this, or do carry like that. I'm saying see what your real needs are, what your realistic threats are, and match the strong suits of a carry method with those requirements. If it turns out to be AIWB, run that.
     

    BehindBlueI's

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    29   0   0
    Oct 3, 2012
    25,890
    113
    For what it's worth, unless one's scrotal equipment extends laterally beyond their crotchal region, the muzzle of the gun won't be pointed at the dangly bits with true appendix carry. The muzzle will point at the front of the hip and thigh, perhaps the femoral artery. To have the muzzle pointed at one's junk, the gun has to be positioned behind the belt buckle, does it not?

    I will resist the temptation presented and simply leave this:

    Hickey: You're scared.
    John Smith: The water's getting cold.
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    I feel somewhat ashamed of what is going to be a thread jack. But it has been quiet around here for some time.

    Holster position in the clinch or rolling around on the ground... Let me start by saying I try to avoid the clinch these days. There was a time I was very comfortable in the clinch and pretty good there. 25 years of no cardio work has left me less effective here. I can still make it the worst 2 minutes of your life, but I am a hollow shell of my former self. My rolling around with ICP last year left me thinking both lungs might explode and that I am not 22 years old, anymore even though mentally I see myself there.

    Enough setting the scene. If you and I are banging around in the clinch and you carry appendix. While you have a better chance of getting hands on your gun in a firing grip with either hand so do I. In the clinch that gun in the holster is going to be noticed. I do not have to clear the gun from the holster to shoot. I just have to clear the trigger guard. You as the holster wearer do not have that same luxury. If this happens it will test Rhino's dangling bits theory. ( I have more to say on that subject but I am going to show restraint and leave it alone)

    There are advantages and disadvantages to each holster position. I don't care what some one else does, because I am not a liberal. I don't think there is one position or holster or method that is fool proof. Bad things can happen no matter where you carry. Lots of good things can happen as well.

    It is Larry Vickers class and his insurance and I am all in favor of him doing what he thinks is best.
     

    lovemachine

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    15,601
    119
    Indiana
    I haven't had that type of training, so I don't know what a "clinch" is. What I do know is that when I took a One-Handed Manipulations class with coach and rhino being the instructors, it changed my view on how I carry my gun.

    Before, I carried traditional IWB at about the 4:00 position. I realized how much of a pain it was to draw my gun with my support hand. And I refuse to OC, so that limits what I'm able to do. By switching over to AIWB, I am now able to draw from either hand. It's also a faster draw for me. And I have found that it's more comfortable to carry a gun all day now. Not to mention I no longer have to buy jeans that are too big for me.

    As for having a ND by carrying AIWB, I don't get it. If you're using a quality holster, you shouldn't have any problems. And there is no reason to be in a hurry to re-holster your gun. In a self defense situation, you shouldn't be in a hurry to holster anyway, you should be scanning the area for more threats. When the gun goes in the holster, it should be calm.
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    I haven't had that type of training, so I don't know what a "clinch" is. What I do know is that when I took a One-Handed Manipulations class with coach and rhino being the instructors, it changed my view on how I carry my gun.

    Before, I carried traditional IWB at about the 4:00 position. I realized how much of a pain it was to draw my gun with my support hand. And I refuse to OC, so that limits what I'm able to do. By switching over to AIWB, I am now able to draw from either hand. It's also a faster draw for me. And I have found that it's more comfortable to carry a gun all day now. Not to mention I no longer have to buy jeans that are too big for me.

    As for having a ND by carrying AIWB, I don't get it. If you're using a quality holster, you shouldn't have any problems. And there is no reason to be in a hurry to re-holster your gun. In a self defense situation, you shouldn't be in a hurry to holster anyway, you should be scanning the area for more threats. When the gun goes in the holster, it should be calm.

    Clinch is a standing position usually where people are locked up in a fight or struggle trying to over power one another. Wrestling on the feet, hand to hand, Close quarters combat. Places where full straight arms for shooting is not possible. Bad breath distance with hands on. Can be lots of variables but traditional shooting stance is not going to be possible. perhaps any shooting is not going to be possible because you are too close.

    If you are happy with your carry position and it is working do it. Don't let others opinions matter. They are not you.
     
    Top Bottom