Gr666mer Updates

[Ark]

Same for drinking and smoking? Other "immoral" acts inappropriate for minors. Acts that the students shouldnt know about. I know for a fact the English dept in my HS were a bunch of lushes that would get hammered on the weekends in bars together. They shouldnt be teachers either according to you.

Being an active sex worker is not the same thing as drinking or smoking.

 

[Ingomike]

Who makes these standards?

We will put you down as a vote for no standards because no one is perfect…

 

[BugI02]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Sometimes it does.

He's right. It doesn't guarantee it, but neither does it rule it out

 

[actaeon277]

 

[Cameramonkey]

Sometimes it does.

The problem isnt the teachers quietly bartending, having secret onlyfans accounts, etc. The problem is the teachers oversharing and teaching the kids inappropriate things. There are exponentially more teachers indoctrinating our kids and filling their heads with inappropriate garbage that doesnt belong in school than teachers like this.

That I think is where your confusion lies.



And in my last post I mentioned the drunkard teachers. I only knew this because a parent saw them out and mentioned it to their kid. They never told the students. Well, I did hear them once talking in code. Had I not known the back story, I wouldnt have had a clue what they were talking about. Today these problem teachers would be telling their students all about the inappropriate behavior the weekend before.

 

[buckwacker]

The problem isnt the teachers quietly bartending, having secret onlyfans accounts, etc. The problem is the teachers oversharing and teaching the kids inappropriate things. There are exponentially more teachers indoctrinating our kids and filling their heads with inappropriate garbage that doesnt belong in school than teachers like this.

That I think is where your confusion lies.



And in my last post I mentioned the drunkard teachers. I only knew this because a parent saw them out and mentioned it to their kid. They never told the students. Well, I did hear them once talking in code. Had I not known the back story, I wouldnt have had a clue what they were talking about. Today these problem teachers would be telling their students all about the inappropriate behavior the weekend before.

I don't think I'm confused and you really only deflected when I asked my initial question.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I'd guess you're in your 30s. The point I was making, which you've unknowingly helped make, is that moral and ethical decline is generally a slow, creeping process. The teachers in your school weren't grooming kids into the crazy alphabet lifestyle, but they were part of and contributed to the moral and ethical decline that brought us the groomers.

It's funny how what is considered acceptable by even conservative folks evolves over time. I'm betting your grandparents generation would have had your teachers ran out of the school had their behavior become known, but it was not a big deal for your generation. For your grandparents generation, behavioral issues were chewing gum, passing notes, or maybe smoking under the bleachers if they were really crazy. By the time we get to your generation(assuming I have your age close), it's teen pregnancy, drugs, and school shootings. Now our kids are dealing everything that came before plus open socialism\communism, complete classroom disorder, crt, and grooming. We've been on a continuous slide, and it's speeding up. It also permeates society, not just the schools.

You can say what you want about the prudish standards of our grandparents generation, but if we'd hew a little closer to them, we wouldnt be suffering the social train wreck we're experiencing now.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thanks. I actually just turned 50. LOL

And I dont feel I deflected. Just because somebody does something you disagree with outside of the classroom IN COMPLETE AND TOTAL ISOLATION FROM THEIR WORK LIFE (that is the key) doesnt mean they cant do their jobs well in a way that doesnt impact their work interactions. There are numerous examples of teachers who did well and were well loved, and then suddenly the students were blindsided because a dad happened to see the teacher at the strip club, on onlyfans, pornhub, etc. and tattled. Prior to that new info, the teacher had no complaints, did their job well, and was otherwise considered an "excellent teacher". Those arent the problem and are ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOT what is wrong in education today. . Which is why I said what I said about correlation.

Yes, overall a return to more conservative Christian* values would help society. In most cases the problem teachers causing the issues you addressed arent those doing "immoral" things quietly behind the scenes like this couple.("crossing the streams" not withstanding) Its those who ARENT doing things like onlyfans, smoking pot on weekends, etc. and instead are those pushing drag story hour/sexualism/transgenderism, injecting anti-American ideals, Marxism, DEI/racism against whites/white guilt, etc. THAT is the real problem. Not somebody SECRETLY moonlighting doing something you are offended by.

If my kids were in public school and I found out Mr Simpson was actually a drag queen on the weekends, I wouldnt give a care as long as he was teaching my kid ONLY geometry and not injecting his off-topic beliefs into the classroom. If he started proselytizing to the students about his hobby, then we have a problem.

As long as they arent breaking the law, exposing kids to their extra curricular activities, and are performing their jobs well, I've got no problems. What's next? "Sorry Mr. Wacker. We have learned you shoot competitively, ESPECIALLY competitions like that thing called "two gun" with a scary assault rifle. Guns are incompatible with school settings/policies and sets a bad example for our students. You are terminated. Clean out your desk."

*moralistic would be another word for those who do not believe. Someone who honors natural law, lives and let live, doesnt violate others' natural rights, etc.

 

[Creedmoor]

I'll ask a perhaps inconvenient question: was our society better ordered when we held teachers to a higher, more prudish set of standards?

Its not inconvenient at all, when was that please?

 

[buckwacker]

Its not inconvenient at all, when was that please?

40s, 50s?

 

[Creedmoor]

40s, 50s?

I was born in 58, im quite certain the percentages of educators of your poor behavior have been going on about as long as we have been on this rock.
40s 50s the world had no instant information,
One did and could just move 150 miles and no one had any knowledge of what acts tou did two years before.
Look at the Catholic school system and its kid shenanigans and its still going on.
The WWW has changed lots of things.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Look at the Catholic school system and its kid shenanigans and its still going on.

What exactly are we supposed to look at? If you're talking about Catholic schools nowadays, you have to realize that the traditional concept of priests/nuns teaching school kids is practically nonexistent anymore. The vast majority of Catholic schools are staffed not by religious, but by hired teachers/administrators who can be any regular old lay person, and don't even have to be Catholic. In many "Catholic" schools they've gone for the same woke nonsense as the rest of the world, and even have openly gay, etc, teachers and staff. Sadly, there really isn't much about Catholic school staff to differentiate them from other schools these days, and so abuse tends to happen at pretty much the same percentage rate as in other schools.

As for priests abusing children these days, no, it is not still going on to anywhere near the degree that is was in the past. And yes, before you correct me, I'm not saying that priests aren't around in Catholic schools anymore; even though they don't have a primary teaching role in most cases, they are absolutely around, and some of them are sick perverts who take advantage of that position of trust to do horrible things. But this was largely a problem in the 80's-early 2000's, when the media started uncovering it. The problem was that in the 70's the Catholic Church went through it's own sort of mini woke revolution in a lot of ways, and started allowing people with all kind of sexually deviant ideas into seminary, and from there into other positions of authority. Since then, though, there's been a lot change. Sadly, it's true that some perpetrators still have never been fully brought to justice, and I'll gladly join anyone in calling for that to change. But nowadays in terms of preventing abuse and catching those who do so the Catholic Church has, from what I've seen, almost swung to the opposite extreme, with even the most far-fetched of allegations being enough for a priest to be suspended and have to go through years of investigation, and if he is not able to absolutely prove his innocence somehow (which is often that case, as things come down to the word of one witness against another) he may never get his good name back or return to active ministry.

And again, I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen anymore, but even at the height of the scandal the percentage of priests who were abusers was still less than the percentage of secular people in positions of trust around children, such as public school teachers, and it's been significantly reduced since then.

Your perception of it still being a huge problem comes from listening to the media, who gleefully report every time an allegation comes up against a priest, but whenever said allegations are proven to be complete bunk, suddenly the media is MIA to let people know about it. I can think of a few specific cases, like that priest in Washington DC (IIRC his name was Monsignor Pope, or something like that) who had a worker at the parish claim she caught him looking at child porn. The media were all over the story, until there was a thorough police investigation that showed the claim to be completely baseless. Or the positively outrageous treatment of Cardinal Pell in Australia, whose trial looked like a modern remake of To Kill a Mocking Bird. I bet 99% of the people who heard about his trial never knew that he was eventually found to be innocent, and I'm sure most of them never learned any of the preposterous details that came forth at the trial, showing just how utterly laughable the accusations being made against him were in the first place.

 

[Creedmoor]

What exactly are we supposed to look at? If you're talking about Catholic schools nowadays, you have to realize that the traditional concept of priests/nuns teaching school kids is practically nonexistent anymore. The vast majority of Catholic schools are staffed not by religious, but by hired teachers/administrators who can be any regular old lay person, and don't even have to be Catholic. In many "Catholic" schools they've gone for the same woke nonsense as the rest of the world, and even have openly gay, etc, teachers and staff. Sadly, there really isn't much about Catholic school staff to differentiate them from other schools these days, and so abuse tends to happen at pretty much the same percentage rate as in other schools.

As for priests abusing children these days, no, it is not still going on to anywhere near the degree that is was in the past. And yes, before you correct me, I'm not saying that priests aren't around in Catholic schools anymore; even though they don't have a primary teaching role in most cases, they are absolutely around, and some of them are sick perverts who take advantage of that position of trust to do horrible things. But this was largely a problem in the 80's-early 2000's, when the media started uncovering it. The problem was that in the 70's the Catholic Church went through it's own sort of mini woke revolution in a lot of ways, and started allowing people with all kind of sexually deviant ideas into seminary, and from there into other positions of authority. Since then, though, there's been a lot change. Sadly, it's true that some perpetrators still have never been fully brought to justice, and I'll gladly join anyone in calling for that to change. But nowadays in terms of preventing abuse and catching those who do so the Catholic Church has, from what I've seen, almost swung to the opposite extreme, with even the most far-fetched of allegations being enough for a priest to be suspended and have to go through years of investigation, and if he is not able to absolutely prove his innocence somehow (which is often that case, as things come down to the word of one witness against another) he may never get his good name back or return to active ministry.

And again, I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen anymore, but even at the height of the scandal the percentage of priests who were abusers was still less than the percentage of secular people in positions of trust around children, such as public school teachers, and it's been significantly reduced since then.

Your perception of it still being a huge problem comes from listening to the media, who gleefully report every time an allegation comes up against a priest, but whenever said allegations are proven to be complete bunk, suddenly the media is MIA to let people know about it. I can think of a few specific cases, like that priest in Washington DC (IIRC his name was Monsignor Pope, or something like that) who had a worker at the parish claim she caught him looking at child porn. The media were all over the story, until there was a thorough police investigation that showed the claim to be completely baseless. Or the positively outrageous treatment of Cardinal Pell in Australia, whose trial looked like a modern remake of To Kill a Mocking Bird. I bet 99% of the people who heard about his trial never knew that he was eventually found to be innocent, and I'm sure most of them never learned any of the preposterous details that came forth at the trial, showing just how utterly laughable the accusations being made against him were in the first place.

Think about this one simple fact,

The Churches Allowed and Allows Known Pedophiles around Children.

Theres just no defense for allowing that to happen.

Wow shocking one innocent priest.
What about the thousands and thousands and thousands that went unreported to LE and the church then covered up for those men for decades.
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Most of my friends went to Catholic schools, im aware of the staffing changes.
Might not be many priests in the classroom in todays society, but the good church still has plenty of priests, bishops and cardinals around that still when problems happen get covered up.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Think about this one simple fact,

The Churches Allowed and Allows Known Pedophiles around Children.

Theres just no defense for allowing that to happen.

Wow shocking one innocent priest.
What about the thousands and thousands and thousands that went unreported to LE and the church then covered up for those men for decades.
Deleted
Deleted
Deleted
Deleted
Most of my friends went to Catholic schools, im aware of the staffing changes.
Might not be many priests in the classroom in todays society, but the good church still has plenty of priests, bishops and cardinals around that still when problems happen get covered up.

Churches have hypocrites in their midst?

 

[Creedmoor]

Churches have hypocrites in their midst?

Of course, like the rest of the world.
The churches are chock full of them.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Think about this one simple fact,

The Churches Allowed and Allows Known Pedophiles around Children.

Theres just no defense for allowing that to happen.

Wow shocking one innocent priest.
What about the thousands and thousands and thousands that went unreported to LE and the church then covered up for those men for decades.
Deleted
Deleted
Deleted
Deleted
Most of my friends went to Catholic schools, im aware of the staffing changes.
Might not be many priests in the classroom in todays society, but the good church still has plenty of priests, bishops and cardinals around that still when problems happen get covered up.

I'm not defending anything that happened, or anything that still does. Yes, I know there are still plenty of guilty men out there who wormed their way into the system and made friends in high places, and to this day have never seen consequences anywhere near commensurate with the crimes they committed. Cardinal Theodore McCarrick is one name that comes to mind.

What I'm taking issue with is you singling out the Catholic Church, out of all the institutions that perpetrate this problem. If you really think that the Catholic Church has done a worse job of handling this issue than most any other institution out there, then you are either misinformed on the facts, or you just have a bone to pick with Catholics.

Secondly, this claim of yours: "The Churches ... Allows Known Pedophiles around Children." is patently and absurdly false. (Unless you're talking about woke churches allowing sexual deviants into positions in schools, who are not clergy, in which case, yes, sadly that's a problem in many Catholic schools almost as much as it is in secular schools.)

Nowadays, any priest who is even accused of misconduct is suspended from ministry and not allowed around children until a thorough investigation takes place, and if they're found to be guilty, there's no way they're going to be allowed around children again.

Yes, shielding past offenders from consequences is definitely still an issue, and there is a great deal of criticism deserved on that count, but the claim that offenders are just allowed to continue being around children simply isn't correct. Sure, you can still find pockets of that sort of thing somewhere, but to claim that it's a systemic problem isn't accurate. I've already named names of priests who were put through the wringer in recent years on even the most frail and far-fetched of accusations, which has absolutely become the norm nowadays, not the exception.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'm not defending anything that happened, or anything that still does. Yes, I know there are still plenty of guilty men out there who wormed their way into the system and made friends in high places, and to this day have never seen consequences anywhere near commensurate with the crimes they committed. Cardinal Theodore McCarrick is one name that comes to mind.

What I'm taking issue with is you singling out the Catholic Church, out of all the institutions that perpetrate this problem. If you really think that the Catholic Church has done a worse job of handling this issue than most any other institution out there, then you are either misinformed on the facts, or you just have a bone to pick with Catholics.

Secondly, this claim of yours: "The Churches ... Allows Known Pedophiles around Children." is patently and absurdly false. (Unless you're talking about woke churches allowing sexual deviants into positions in schools, who are not clergy, in which case, yes, sadly that's a problem in many Catholic schools almost as much as it is in secular schools.)

Nowadays, any priest who is even accused of misconduct is suspended from ministry and not allowed around children until a thorough investigation takes place, and if they're found to be guilty, there's no way they're going to be allowed around children again.

Yes, shielding past offenders from consequences is definitely still an issue, and there is a great deal of criticism deserved on that count, but the claim that offenders are just allowed to continue being around children simply isn't correct. Sure, you can still find pockets of that sort of thing somewhere, but to claim that it's a systemic problem isn't accurate. I've already named names of priests who were put through the wringer in recent years on even the most frail and far-fetched of accusations, which has absolutely become the norm nowadays, not the exception.

The cover up is always worse than the actual crime. (At least in political blow back). It's not like the churches were a favored bunch. The culture has been looking for ways to take down the church ever since there was one. The best thing to do is to confront evil when it rears its head but the church is like any other group of human beings--full of fallen people, looking to please man instead of God.

 

[HoosierLife]

Are you pointing out that it was the woman that Satan chose to tempt in the garden of Eden?

Like it or lump it, they are more easily deceived.

The destruction of the Patriarchy was the goal.

The results are now easily seen.

 

[buckwacker]

Thanks. I actually just turned 50. LOL

And I dont feel I deflected. Just because somebody does something you disagree with outside of the classroom IN COMPLETE AND TOTAL ISOLATION FROM THEIR WORK LIFE (that is the key) doesnt mean they cant do their jobs well in a way that doesnt impact their work interactions. There are numerous examples of teachers who did well and were well loved, and then suddenly the students were blindsided because a dad happened to see the teacher at the strip club, on onlyfans, pornhub, etc. and tattled. Prior to that new info, the teacher had no complaints, did their job well, and was otherwise considered an "excellent teacher". Those arent the problem and are ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOT what is wrong in education today. . Which is why I said what I said about correlation.

Yes, overall a return to more conservative Christian* values would help society. In most cases the problem teachers causing the issues you addressed arent those doing "immoral" things quietly behind the scenes like this couple.("crossing the streams" not withstanding) Its those who ARENT doing things like onlyfans, smoking pot on weekends, etc. and instead are those pushing drag story hour/sexualism/transgenderism, injecting anti-American ideals, Marxism, DEI/racism against whites/white guilt, etc. THAT is the real problem. Not somebody SECRETLY moonlighting doing something you are offended by.

If my kids were in public school and I found out Mr Simpson was actually a drag queen on the weekends, I wouldnt give a care as long as he was teaching my kid ONLY geometry and not injecting his off-topic beliefs into the classroom. If he started proselytizing to the students about his hobby, then we have a problem.

As long as they arent breaking the law, exposing kids to their extra curricular activities, and are performing their jobs well, I've got no problems. What's next? "Sorry Mr. Wacker. We have learned you shoot competitively, ESPECIALLY competitions like that thing called "two gun" with a scary assault rifle. Guns are incompatible with school settings/policies and sets a bad example for our students. You are terminated. Clean out your desk."

*moralistic would be another word for those who do not believe. Someone who honors natural law, lives and let live, doesnt violate others' natural rights, etc.

I will attempt to state this as simply as I can: social cohesion and the ability to govern ourselves is wholly dependent on the moral values of the members of society. What one does when they think no one is watching is the truest test of moral standards. We've migrated from a minority of people doing morally questionable things in secret to many people doing them openly and demanding acceptance. The fragmentation of our social stability has correlated well with this trend, and ours is not the first culture to experience this. It's repeated many times throughout history.

 

[buckwacker]

I was born in 58, im quite certain the percentages of educators of your poor behavior have been going on about as long as we have been on this rock.
40s 50s the world had no instant information,
One did and could just move 150 miles and no one had any knowledge of what acts tou did two years before.
Look at the Catholic school system and its kid shenanigans and its still going on.
The WWW has changed lots of things.

This proves my point. If this behavior became known, it would not be tolerated and they would be forced to quit and move. The behavior is often tolerated today.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]