Daylight Saving Time

[cg21]

Which is why we should be on central not eastern

I’m on central. There would be months that sunrise would not be until 8-10am

 

[cg21]

huh?

If it wasn’t for shifting the clocks there are months out of the year that sunrise would be ridiculously late.

 

[bobzilla]

I mean if you want more daylight move south. Changing man made clocks doesn’t change the suns function nor the planets orientation. No one “gains” more daylight. It’s the same tiny amount as always in the winter.

 

[KLB]

If it wasn’t for shifting the clocks there are months out of the year that sunrise would be ridiculously late.

I think I understand what you are saying now.

DST isn't the changing of the clocks. It is the time after clocks have been shifted forwards, so your original statement didn't make much sense to me.

 

[chipbennett]

Trump supports not changing the clocks.

Trump To America: Let's Make Daylight Saving Time Permanent

As the United States wakes up sleep-deprived Monday morning, Trump announces he supports permanent daylight saving time in 2019 and beyond. President Trump is just as tired as the rest of America in switching our clocks twice a year.

www.forbes.com

This is the middle of three options:

Best: permanent standard time
Second Best: permanent daylight saving time
Worst: continual clock changing

Permanent DST would move Indiana, which geographically should probably be on US Central time, permanently to Atlantic time - a full two hours shifted from our actual daylight cycle. Permanent US Eastern time would be far more appropriate for Indiana, given our geography/daylight cycle; but even a permanent time two hours removed from what makes sense according to the sun is better than changing the clocks twice a year, every year.

 

[chipbennett]

If it wasn’t for dst we would have sunrise at 9-10am

[Citation Needed]

DST shifts sunrise later, not earlier. At no time through the year is sunrise as late as "9-10AM", either based on standard time throughout the year, or when DST is applied. The only way for a sunrise as late as "9-10AM" to happen would be for DST to be applied throughout the year, in which case we would see a sunrise of 9:05AM in mid-December.

Standard time sunrise range: 5:15AM (mid-July) - 8:05AM (mid-December)
Daylight Saving time sunrise range: 7:02 (DST start, March) - 7:48AM (DST end, November)

Sunrise and sunset times in Indianapolis

Calculations of sunrise and sunset in Indianapolis – Indiana – USA for March 2023. Generic astronomy calculator to calculate times for sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset for many cities, with daylight saving time and time zones taken in account.

www.timeanddate.com

 

[chipbennett]

If it wasn’t for shifting the clocks there are months out of the year that sunrise would be ridiculously late.

DST shifts clocks later, not earlier.

 

[Hawkeye]

[Citation Needed]

DST shifts sunrise later, not earlier. At no time through the year is sunrise as late as "9-10AM", either based on standard time throughout the year, or when DST is applied. The only way for a sunrise as late as "9-10AM" to happen would be for DST to be applied throughout the year, in which case we would see a sunrise of 9:05AM in mid-December.

Standard time sunrise range: 5:15AM (mid-July) - 8:05AM (mid-December)
Daylight Saving time sunrise range: 7:02 (DST start, March) - 7:48AM (DST end, November)

Sunrise and sunset times in Indianapolis

Calculations of sunrise and sunset in Indianapolis – Indiana – USA for March 2023. Generic astronomy calculator to calculate times for sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset for many cities, with daylight saving time and time zones taken in account.

www.timeanddate.com

There you go again. Applying facts to the discussion.

 

[cosermann]

DST - the twice-a-year bane if my existence.

 

[chipbennett]

There you go again. Applying facts to the discussion.

I think I was quoting the wrong time values. (Need more coffee.)

DST sunrise range: 6:15AM (mid-June) - 8:01AM (DST start, May) / 8:16AM (DST end, Nov).

Without DST, that range would be 5:15AM (mid-June) - 8:05AM (mid-December).

The point still stands: standard time never results in a sunrise of "9-10AM".

 

[bobzilla]

Yeah 10am someone is smoking crack

 

[KLB]

Permanent DST would move Indiana, which geographically should probably be on US Central time

Some of us are on CT

 

[chipbennett]

Some of us are on CT

Well look at that: an actual benefit to living in The Region.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Well look at that: an actual benefit to living in The Region.

Not sure I would go that far. 5 miles east of me is on a different time.

Fun stuff

 

[snorko]

Not a great graphic, but this map shows the offset from solar noon . Greener means chronological & solar noon are more closely aligned. Indiana should be all central baby.

View attachment 235032

Again, Indiana should "spring forward" and forget it.

 

[cg21]

I think I was quoting the wrong time values. (Need more coffee.)

DST sunrise range: 6:15AM (mid-June) - 8:01AM (DST start, May) / 8:16AM (DST end, Nov).

Without DST, that range would be 5:15AM (mid-June) - 8:05AM (mid-December).

The point still stands: standard time never results in a sunrise of "9-10AM".

So central time would result in a 9am sunrise

 

[DoggyDaddy]

So central time would result in a 9am sunrise

No, you're going the wrong way. Central time would have earlier sunrises.

 

[jamil]

I mean if you want more daylight move south. Changing man made clocks doesn’t change the suns function nor the planets orientation. No one “gains” more daylight. It’s the same tiny amount as always in the winter.

Meh. That's a straw man. No one thinks that. When people say they get more daylight hours, they're talking about in relation to their work schedules. Also, you don't get more daylight hours by moving south. The daylight/night hours are more evenly split the closer you get to the equator.

But we're not talking about the portion of a 24 hour period that is daylight. This is all about people's work schedules and when daylight hours are most useful to them, particularly when the weather is good. Timekeeping and work schedules are 100% a social construct. It is 0% about a belief that DST bestows upon us more daylight during a 24 hour period.

Different factors drive people's preference about societal timekeeping. If you're retired, or maybe self-employed, maybe a farmer where absolute time matters more than the clock, whatever, your preference is driven by other factors than those who work days for a company and get off work about the same time every weekday afternoon.

We've been arguing about this for ~9 years on INGO. We'll probably argue about it until we stop shifting clocks.

 

[Hawkeye]

I think I was quoting the wrong time values. (Need more coffee.)

DST sunrise range: 6:15AM (mid-June) - 8:01AM (DST start, May) / 8:16AM (DST end, Nov).

Without DST, that range would be 5:15AM (mid-June) - 8:05AM (mid-December).

The point still stands: standard time never results in a sunrise of "9-10AM".

Like I said. Applying facts to the discussion...

 

[jamil]

This is the middle of three options:

Best: permanent standard time
Second Best: permanent daylight saving time
Worst: continual clock changing

Permanent DST would move Indiana, which geographically should probably be on US Central time, permanently to Atlantic time - a full two hours shifted from our actual daylight cycle. Permanent US Eastern time would be far more appropriate for Indiana, given our geography/daylight cycle; but even a permanent time two hours removed from what makes sense according to the sun is better than changing the clocks twice a year, every year.

You have the first two backwards.

Your circumstances drive your preference. My circumstances drive mine. I sleep well either way. But I like having more hours of daylight after I'm done with work to enjoy outdoors. Most people do. But I'm not about to dictate what your priorities must be. It's just that if it's a choice of shifting the clock to permanent ST or DT, you're probably gonna lose that one. Unless the WEF gets their way and there is no longer an outdoor leisure to be had by non-elites.