Coronavirus

[MCgrease08]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Would an executive order or a declaration of a national emergency usurp the Constitution?

I'm not trying to be snarky, asking a serious question because I don't know. What power does the government have to restrict the ability to assemble? For how long can a national emergency be declared?

I don't see much discussion around this, particularly by the media.

 

[maxwelhse]

Would an executive order or a declaration of a national emergency usurp the Constitution?

It did for Katrina...

 

[KG1]

Which means fatality rates are likely much lower than what's being reported since there are undoubtedly thousands of people who have it but don't even know it.



Unless you really want the virus to go airborne.

Well see that’s the thing. Total deaths can be easily counted but total numbers of infected can exponentially rise without calculating accurate numbers.

 

[wingrider1800]

We are going to close the country because of a media induced panic?

That's what appears to be happening.

 

[Cameramonkey]

More mall stores are posting that they are closing now.

Whats a mall?

I prayed on this last night and this morning. I feel like I got a pretty strong sign to play it safe and to keep the family home today. We'll watch on the live stream.

I'm bummed to not be going. I'm relatively new to this whole journey of faith thing so I would have called you crazy even a year ago if you told me I would be sad about missing church. There are many members here who have helped me open my eyes to the idea of getting to know Christ, even if they don't know they were doing it. So thank you to all of you who have been open about your faith over the years.

Anyway, now back to our regularly scheduled panicking.

I hear ya. 5 years ago I was what we call a CEO Christian... I pretty much attended Christmas and Easter Only. Today I'm the head trustee at our church and am there every Sunday running the multimedia aspect of the service. I love it.

Stay home if it is what is in your heart. God will understand. Fire up the livestreams that guys like me spin up so you dont HAVE to go in to hear The Word. And if anyone needs a livestream because their church doesnt, We're still streaming on Facebook and may switch to Youtube soon. Service starts at 10:30 and the sermon usually starts a little before 11 if you dont want to listen to the WHOLE thing. And the pastor's husband puts up just her sermon later on as a separate video.

http://www.facebook.com/wnumc

And if you know your church/pastor would like to stream live and they just dont know how, reach out to me. I'm happy to provide guidance. (I dont charge for knowledge transfer) To broadcast a simple sermon requires nothing more than an account and the smartphone the pastor probably has in his/her pocket. It doesnt REQUIRE any expensive gadgets to do it simply.

This is an example of an iphone with a $20 mic propped up on the front pew.
https://www.facebook.com/phil.gatts.3/videos/653658345368923/

We are going to close the country because of a media induced panic?

Yes. Because not only do clicks sell, the only way to get rid of the great orange menace is to tank the economy. And if thats what they have to do to make sure he isnt reelected, then by God they'll do it. Sure they will bankrupt a bunch of people, but its the price we have to pay to get a REAL leader installed.

 

[qwerty]

Ran out to see what it was like in the stores. Stopped at Stracks and was surprised that it looked just slightly busier than normal. Friday every checkout lane was opened and the lines ran down the aisles to the back of the store. I couldn't even see how one could shop with the lines like that, but people with full carts, sometimes two were managing.

Today with a handful of lines open, checked out in record time. Everything was well stocked, and was totally blown away to see high level management helping to stock shelves. The cashier said they have been traveling to the stores to help out. Forgot to check on TP, and forgot to get ice cream!

 

[Hatin Since 87]

It did for Katrina...

And the Boston marathon bombing.

 

[Ingomike]

Derek Hunter has been writing some very good points recently, this hits the mark.

[h=1]We’re Paying The Price For The Death Of Journalism[/h]That journalism is dead has been a punchline for so long that we’ve forgotten how that fact has real world consequences. We’re now paying the price for the failure of that profession to hold itself to any semblance of standards. As worry and straight-up panic sweep large swaths of the country, causing irrational toilet paper hoarding and runs on canned goods, there is no outlet and no journalist worthy of trust when it comes to conveying truthful information to the public or to hold anyone in power accountable.

Meanwhile, Fox has stupid, counterproductive shouting matches and hasn’t disrupted their streak of having the same 12 contributors on all the time talking about every subject. Let me tell you a little secret – if you see a pundit on TV talking about every subject under the Sun, from trade wars and Iran to the election and a pandemic, you are not getting useful information, you are getting opinion. From the 9 person CNN panel, to the MSNBC roundtable, to the “faceoff” on Fox, you are being entertained, not informed. If that’s what you want, fine; but if that’s not what you need, you’re out of luck.

The death of journalism has left Americans with nowhere to turn to for reliable, honest reporting. All of these outlets could and should have only experts on to talk about coronavirus. What someone on the payroll with zero background in medicine thinks about this situation might be good for ratings, but it’s not journalism. And people tune in to news networks expecting to get news, especially in times like this.

 

[foszoe]

Saw this and am not responding specifically to you or your circumstances, especially since I have only met you once.

If I needed food to eat would I go to the Supermarket?
If I am supposed to be at work Mon, would I go?
If my wife needed a prescription picked up would I go?
Do I need to be with others to worship God?

My stomach will drive me to provide food.
My wallet will drive me to provide money.
My wife's health would drive me to get her prescriptions.
What drives me to be with others to worship God?

For me it is:

Therefore, brethren, having boldness[f] to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

God gave us all the capability to reason and the duty care for others. We must all use these facilities to make decisions guided by our faith.

Prior to the virus, Christians, myself included, have found reasons NOT to be in Church that have much less validity. IF we are not excusing ourselves out of selfish reasons, but rather with reasons that have validity, then God knows and He will judge.

I prayed on this last night and this morning. I feel like I got a pretty strong sign to play it safe and to keep the family home today. We'll watch on the live stream.

I'm bummed to not be going. I'm relatively new to this whole journey of faith thing so I would have called you crazy even a year ago if you told me I would be sad about missing church. There are many members here who have helped me open my eyes to the idea of getting to know Christ, even if they don't know they were doing it. So thank you to all of you who have been open about your faith over the years.

Anyway, now back to our regularly scheduled panicking.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Ran out to see what it was like in the stores. Stopped at Stracks and was surprised that it looked just slightly busier than normal. Friday every checkout lane was opened and the lines ran down the aisles to the back of the store. I couldn't even see how one could shop with the lines like that, but people with full carts, sometimes two were managing.

Today with a handful of lines open, checked out in record time. Everything was well stocked, and was totally blown away to see high level management helping to stock shelves. The cashier said they have been traveling to the stores to help out. Forgot to check on TP, and forgot to get ice cream!

My gut is a lot of those who panicked probably saw the empty shelves and assumed we're screwed and its going to be like that for a long time so they are still at home thinking there is nothing left. Good.

 

[maxwelhse]

My gut is a lot of those who panicked probably saw the empty shelves and assumed we're screwed and its going to be like that for a long time so they are still at home thinking there is nothing left. Good.

My feeling is that people are out of money and space for the stuff they hoarded and things will be returning to normal for about a week until people get paid again and use their supplies down. Most of us here have been "prepping" in one form or another for years now and have our systems in place to maintain our comfortable inventories. Most people have not. Half of the country doesn't even have $400 saved for an emergency. I'd bet most of us spent about that much in the last week or two on this or that "just because".

 

[Ziggidy]

It looks like the UK is discussing converting arms and auto manufacturing to temporarily produce ventilators "at speed" for the Coronavirus. Link to the article below and I cut and pasted a piece of the article. It also mentions the possibility of converting hotels to makeshift hospitals.

"He said car manufacturers, weapon makers and army suppliers would be asked to change their production lines to make ventilators for use in hospitals treating coronavirus" - which can cause severe breathing problems.

Plea for ventilators

The health service is to stop non-urgent surgery and implement a huge training programme to retrain medics from other specialisms to treat those who become seriously ill with the Covid-19 disease.
"We will stop at nothing to fight this virus and I think people have got the impression otherwise," Mr Hancock said.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson is to hold a conference call with industry leaders later to discuss the need to help produce medical equipment "at speed", Mr Hancock said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51895873

I was just thinking about you an hour ago. I realized my earlier statement about thinking we have enough vents on hand.....I retract that statement. I failed to remember this is a world wide situation.

I stand corrected.

 

[ditcherman]

My feeling is that people are out of money and space for the stuff they hoarded and things will be returning to normal for about a week until people get paid again and use their supplies down. Most of us here have been "prepping" in one form or another for years now and have our systems in place to maintain our comfortable inventories. Most people have not. Half of the country doesn't even have $400 saved for an emergency. I'd bet most of us spent about that much in the last week or two on this or that "just because".

Haha guilty as charged. Haven’t bought anything we won’t use eventually, and zero TP.

 

[foszoe]

Most people get paid on Friday. Most people grocery shop etc on weekend. I don't think this is a long term deal but time will tell.

 

[Sirshredalot]

What about us folks that dont have childcare for the next month due to school and daycare closings?

My kids cant stay home by their selves.

Shred

 

[Libertarian01]

Chiming in late here but I have been involved in several arguments over this thing. For me, it is being blown way out of proportion to it's actual threat level.

First, it IS newsworthy! It should be covered, it should be discussed, the public does need to be informed. However, the extent to which it is being covered is insanely over the top! The coverage itself is creating the story, not the story itself.

The last time I saw something like this that comes to mind easily was the OJ Simpson "chase" in the Bronco. I heard a reporter saying they needed to cover it because everyone was watching it. The problem with this thinking was that we were all "watching" it because it was on every darned news channel interrupting regular programming. We could not help BUT watch it if our TV was on. It became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Here are some basic facts that I do believe make it newsworthy:

#1) It IS new, at least to the general human population. Any new virus that is lethal should be discussed as it gets into the general population.

#2) It is lethal. The coronovirus itself can cause pneumonia by itself, especially in the vulnerable population.

#3) There is no vaccine, nor is there a targeted cure. Once someone is infected they are on their own with their own immune system to fight it off, with help of pure oxygen and care once hospitalized with a severe case.

#4) 20% of the infected will show serious symptoms. Presuming this goes through the entire US population of 330 million this will mean 66,000,000 will get serious symptoms. This is not good.

HOWEVER, context is everything. Here is why I believe it is being overblown.

#1) We also face a threat from the flu (aka. influenza). So far, this flu season, our CDC estimates that 20,000 - 52,000 people have DIED from the flu already! This is in the USA alone. The median number here would be 36,000 dead from the flu.

#2) While the flu doesn't kill by itself, it does weaken our immune system for other infections to follow, such as bacteria or viral pneumonia, which do kill. So the coronovirus does the damage itself, but so what? This is like arguing whether or not you're killed in the road by a gas truck or a diesel truck. Does it really matter enough to justify mass hysteria?

#3) The mortality rate is way overblown (personal opinion based on facts here.) The original mortality rate was either 2.4 or 2.6%. The WHO (World Health Organization) upped that to 3.4 or 3.6%. HOWEVER, the WHO also in the same line says that it expects this number to come down. The reason is testing and identification of the actual number infected v/s the number killed. In the USA we have only tested about 9,000 people to date. We suck on testing. While in South Korea they are testing 20,000 people per DAY! And guess what? In South Korea their mortality rate is below 1% of the population, with similar health care. So presuming that the actual mortality rate is around 0.5% that would result in about 330,000 dead in the USA from the coronovirus. This is bad, but it is hardly worth panicking over. This represents 6 - 17 times those killed by the flu. But not millions.

#4) The mortalities caused by coronovirus seem to only focus on the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Granted, I am in that category as many of you are, but so what? We are also at risk in the same way from the flu or any other pathogen. Plus, there seem to be almost no young people dying. The flu isn't so picky.

#5) Regarding a vaccine, there is a vaccine for the flu - until the flu mutates. This is why we need a new vaccine every year. The powers that be make a scientific estimation of what is going to go around the world and create the annual flu vaccine based upon this estimation. This includes anywhere from 2 - 20 strains. Good for them! Seriously, a great job. However, it is only an estimate. If a flu strain that isn't included in the vaccine somehow manages to spread beyond its perceived threat level, it can cause massive damage. So the flu vaccine while useful isn't a silver bullet.

#6) It is reported now that once we get the coronovirus we are immune to it. So by this time next year the bulk of the population worldwide will have contracted the coronovirus, survived it, and become immune to it. With this immunity they won't spread it any farther. Unlike the flu, which will mutate and cause threats forever.

#7) What we should be worried like hell about is MERS! Middle East Respiratory Syndrome! It hasn't bloomed into a major threat but that is where our focus should be. Why? Because MERS has a 30 - 40% mortality rate! That is a Holy , head for the bunker, the preppers were right mortality rate! If MERS ever breaks loose we will be looking at the 1347 - 1351 bubonic plague all over again. That will be insanely butt ugly. This is context, perspective. MERS is something that we need to really focus on before it breaks out into the general population. But hey, only a few Middle Easterners have died so who in the Western world cares, right? We ignore this strain at our own peril.

So, while I do believe coronovirus is newsworthy, it is nowhere near the threat level it is made out to be.

Regards,

Doug

Some Links: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

https://www.nfid.org/infectious-diseases/coronaviruses/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...o_be_held_accountable_for_hurting_people.html

 

[maxwelhse]

What about us folks that dont have childcare for the next month due to school and daycare closings?

My kids cant stay home by their selves.

Shred

We've already been talking about this at work and we're expecting about a 40-50% call off rate if schools continue to close. In the case of my employer, we're a supplier and sell almost nothing to end consumers, so if all of our customer's plants have a 50% call off rate, plus we do, it's entirely possible that there won't be enough demand or staffing to even run the plant. So... Everybody goes home and most of those people will do it without pay. I'm seeing a lot of 2 week layoffs coming soon. Not good.

 

[jedi]

What about us folks that dont have childcare for the next month due to school and daycare closings?

My kids cant stay home by their selves.

Shred

sell them!
NWI IGNO sadclown would agree.

 

[Ziggidy]

Attendance was low at church today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ditcherman]

Chiming in late here but I have been involved in several arguments over this thing. For me, it is being blown way out of proportion to it's actual threat level.

First, it IS newsworthy! It should be covered, it should be discussed, the public does need to be informed. However, the extent to which it is being covered is insanely over the top! The coverage itself is creating the story, not the story itself.

The last time I saw something like this that comes to mind easily was the OJ Simpson "chase" in the Bronco. I heard a reporter saying they needed to cover it because everyone was watching it. The problem with this thinking was that we were all "watching" it because it was on every darned news channel interrupting regular programming. We could not help BUT watch it if our TV was on. It became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Here are some basic facts that I do believe make it newsworthy:

#1) It IS new, at least to the general human population. Any new virus that is lethal should be discussed as it gets into the general population.

#2) It is lethal. The coronovirus itself can cause pneumonia by itself, especially in the vulnerable population.

#3) There is no vaccine, nor is there a targeted cure. Once someone is infected they are on their own with their own immune system to fight it off, with help of pure oxygen and care once hospitalized with a severe case.

#4) 20% of the infected will show serious symptoms. Presuming this goes through the entire US population of 330 million this will mean 66,000,000 will get serious symptoms. This is not good.

HOWEVER, context is everything. Here is why I believe it is being overblown.

#1) We also face a threat from the flu (aka. influenza). So far, this flu season, our CDC estimates that 20,000 - 52,000 people have DIED from the flu already! This is in the USA alone. The median number here would be 36,000 dead from the flu.

#2) While the flu doesn't kill by itself, it does weaken our immune system for other infections to follow, such as bacteria or viral pneumonia, which do kill. So the coronovirus does the damage itself, but so what? This is like arguing whether or not you're killed in the road by a gas truck or a diesel truck. Does it really matter enough to justify mass hysteria?

#3) The mortality rate is way overblown (personal opinion based on facts here.) The original mortality rate was either 2.4 or 2.6%. The WHO (World Health Organization) upped that to 3.4 or 3.6%. HOWEVER, the WHO also in the same line says that it expects this number to come down. The reason is testing and identification of the actual number infected v/s the number killed. In the USA we have only tested about 9,000 people to date. We suck on testing. While in South Korea they are testing 20,000 people per DAY! And guess what? In South Korea their mortality rate is below 1% of the population, with similar health care. So presuming that the actual mortality rate is around 0.5% that would result in about 330,000 dead in the USA from the coronovirus. This is bad, but it is hardly worth panicking over. This represents 6 - 17 times those killed by the flu. But not millions.

#4) The mortalities caused by coronovirus seem to only focus on the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Granted, I am in that category as many of you are, but so what? We are also at risk in the same way from the flu or any other pathogen. Plus, there seem to be almost no young people dying. The flu isn't so picky.

#5) Regarding a vaccine, there is a vaccine for the flu - until the flu mutates. This is why we need a new vaccine every year. The powers that be make a scientific estimation of what is going to go around the world and create the annual flu vaccine based upon this estimation. This includes anywhere from 2 - 20 strains. Good for them! Seriously, a great job. However, it is only an estimate. If a flu strain that isn't included in the vaccine somehow manages to spread beyond its perceived threat level, it can cause massive damage. So the flu vaccine while useful isn't a silver bullet.

#6) It is reported now that once we get the coronovirus we are immune to it. So by this time next year the bulk of the population worldwide will have contracted the coronovirus, survived it, and become immune to it. With this immunity they won't spread it any farther. Unlike the flu, which will mutate and cause threats forever.

#7) What we should be worried like hell about is MERS! Middle East Respiratory Syndrome! It hasn't bloomed into a major threat but that is where our focus should be. Why? Because MERS has a 30 - 40% mortality rate! That is a Holy , head for the bunker, the preppers were right mortality rate! If MERS ever breaks loose we will be looking at the 1347 - 1351 bubonic plague all over again. That will be insanely butt ugly. This is context, perspective. MERS is something that we need to really focus on before it breaks out into the general population. But hey, only a few Middle Easterners have died so who in the Western world cares, right? We ignore this strain at our own peril.

So, while I do believe coronovirus is newsworthy, it is nowhere near the threat level it is made out to be.

Regards,

Doug

Some Links: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

https://www.nfid.org/infectious-diseases/coronaviruses/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...o_be_held_accountable_for_hurting_people.html

This is a great post! Very well said.
I will have to admit I have been glued to this thread from the beginning, sorting through what I believe to be pertinent info vs hype, and at the same time have spent less than 10 minutes on FB - until yesterday - more on that later - don't really watch any TV, and have not really had any other inputs on this except talking to a few people. I'm not on twitter or anything else. It's just been this thread. I'm sure I've missed stuff.
Yesterday I jump on to FB and the place is filled with the weirdest thing I have ever seen - people blaming the democrats for the virus, big gov for taking control and instituting marshal law overnight, the media for the over covering and at the exact same time withholding info, it's just a ploy to take down Trump, and on and on. I am sure glad I don't live in that world. Maybe I'm sheltered or naive, but I believe the people who think that our .gov just seized control, probably already have their minds controlled by FB, or at the very least the herd mentality that they run in. Pretty depressing really, to see people I know disqualify themselves from ever having a rational conversation again. Some people on here I've felt have been real naysayers about this virus, but I can understand how that might be your reaction if all you ever saw was the crazy on the far end.