Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[BugI02]

Actually, it doesn't work that way in the NFL, per collective bargaining.
Well, the left has won. [STRIKE]It has turned the right into snowflakes. Offended over a bunch of guys kneeling.[/STRIKE]

Because of their constant push against patriotism and liberty, we voted in Trump (despite our misgivings) to finally put an end to this bull

Only themselves to blame. Push people far enough and they will make a stand. Bon appétit

 

[lucky4034]

Whoever wrote this,

IS 100% RIGHT .....

THANK YOU .....

I served and I don't understand any of this nonsense?

I swore to defend the Constitution of the USA... a big part of that is the right to free speech. Regulating their right to free speech seems to go against everything I swore to defend regardless of whether or not I agree with it. The president needs to shut his mouth and focus on fixing this country. Who gives a **** what spoiled football players do?

Coincidentally... regulating free speech sounds awefully pro-big government to me? It's ok for the President to call for regulation of the 1st amendment but not the 2nd... a little hypocritical.

 

[BugI02]

I keep hearing about a "movement" but I can't detect any actual motion. This effort has been going on for over a year, what progress has been made? Where are any discussions being held about the actual issue rather than just about the protests? If this is truly about bringing an important issue into the national discussion why is no one discussing it? Why don't the media types and others who claim sympathy and solidarity with the players ever actually discuss what these protests are about?

I strongly support the players' first amendment right to free speech. But the first amendment only protects one from the government. It does not shield anyone from their employer or the economic backlash from their fellow citizens. They have every right to kneel during the anthem. Their employer has every right to take disciplinary action for breaching societal expectations while representing the team. Granted the union will have some say over this through collective bargaining but that is a side issue.

Protest is a tool used to bring an injustice to the public's attention. This is used to create dialogue about the issue and to exert pressure to foster change. Since the protesters are thus far not actually speaking about the issue, all of their actions so far have been for nothing. All of the individuals protesting in this manner are supposedly college educated. They give interviews all the time. Why can't one of them actually talk about the issue or what actions they are seeking?

In order for there to be a national discussion the dialogue has to start somewhere. If there is an actual message I wish someone would get around to sharing it.

Because it is not a protest, it is a feel-good exercize for those taking the knee. It makes them feel good about themselves and how they are actually doing 'something' about the 'problem', without having to march, or get sweaty, or upset the neighbors at the gated community or be late to the club

It's like the cast members of Hamilton breaking the fourth wall to mob shame Pence. They only are in a position to be the center of attention for the purpose of being entertainers, and they abuse the privilege at their peril. Perhaps the willingness of Hollywood celebrities to insert their inane and simplistic understanding of events into pretty much everything has convinced these people that their opinions actually matter to the majority of Americans

 

[actaeon277]

I just read this on FB. It pretty much states why so many are leaving the the fan base.
You can nod in agreement or frown in disgust. That is your right.

This explains what the media does not seem to understand:
An open letter to the NFL players,

You graduated high school in 2011. Your teenage years were a struggle. You grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. Your mother was the leader of the family and worked tirelessly to keep a roof over your head and food on your plate. Academics were a struggle for you and your grades were mediocre at best. The only thing that made you stand out is you weighed 225 lbs and could run 40 yards in 4.2 seconds while carrying a football. Your best friend was just like you, except he didn’t play football. Instead of going to football practice after school, he went to work at McDonalds for minimum wage. You were recruited by all the big colleges and spent every weekend of your senior year making visits to universities where coaches and boosters tried to convince you their school was best. They laid out the red carpet for you. Your best friend worked double shifts at Mickey D’s. College was not an option for him. On the day you signed with Big State University, your best friend signed paperwork with his Army recruiter. You went to summer workouts. He went to basic training.
You spent the next four years living in the athletic dorm, eating at the training table. You spent your Saturdays on the football field, cheered on by adoring fans. Tutors attended to your every academic need. You attended class when you felt like it. Sure, you worked hard. You lifted weights, ran sprints, studied plays, and soon became one of the top football players in the country. Your best friend was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. While you were in college, he deployed to Iraq once and Afghanistan twice. He became a Sergeant and led a squad of 19 year old soldiers who grew up just like he did. He shed his blood in Afghanistan and watched young American's give their lives, limbs, and innocence for the USA.
You went to the NFL combine and scored off the charts. You hired an agent and waited for draft day. You were drafted in the first round and your agent immediately went to work, ensuring that you received the most money possible. You signed for $16 million although you had never played a single down of professional football. Your best friend re-enlisted in the Army for four more years. As a combat tested sergeant, he will be paid $32,000 per year.
You will drive a Ferrari on the streets of South Beach. He will ride in the back of a Blackhawk helicopter with 10 other combat loaded soldiers. You will sleep at the Ritz. He will dig a hole in the ground and try to sleep. You will “make it rain” in the club. He will pray for rain as the temperature reaches 120 degrees.
On Sunday, you will run into a stadium as tens of thousands of fans cheer and yell your name. For your best friend, there is little difference between Sunday and any other day of the week. There are no adoring fans. There are only people trying to kill him and his soldiers. Every now and then, he and his soldiers leave the front lines and “go to the rear” to rest. He might be lucky enough to catch an NFL game on TV. When the National Anthem plays and you take a knee, he will jump to his feet and salute the television While you protest the unfairness of life in the United States, he will give thanks to God that he has the honor of defending his great country.
To the players of the NFL: We are the people who buy your tickets, watch you on TV, and wear your jerseys. We anxiously wait for Sundays so we can cheer for you and marvel at your athleticism. Although we love to watch you play, we care little about your opinions until you offend us. You have the absolute right to express yourselves, but we have the absolute right to boycott you. We have tolerated your drug use and DUIs, your domestic violence, and your vulgar displays of wealth. We should be ashamed for putting our admiration of your physical skills before what is morally right. But now you have gone too far. You have insulted our flag, our country, our soldiers, our police officers, and our veterans. You are living the American dream, yet you disparage our great country. I am done with NFL football and encourage all like minded Americans to boycott the NFL as well.

Whoever wrote this,

IS 100% RIGHT .....

THANK YOU .....

I served and I don't understand any of this nonsense?

I swore to defend the Constitution of the USA... a big part of that is the right to free speech. Regulating their right to free speech seems to go against everything I swore to defend regardless of whether or not I agree with it. The president needs to shut his mouth and focus on fixing this country. Who gives a **** what spoiled football players do?

Coincidentally... regulating free speech sounds awefully pro-big government to me? It's ok for the President to call for regulation of the 1st amendment but not the 2nd... a little hypocritical.

What does this have to do with "Free Speech" o the "Constitution".
Those are limitations on the government stopping "Free Speech".
The Constitution is limitations on the government, not on citizens.

 

[BugI02]

Disagree... and amazingly enough, it seems most people of color (and a lot of people without color) seem to agree.

Waiting for you to 'spot the similarity' vis a vis Trump and his supporters. Not holding breath

 

[BugI02]

Here's an interesting case of someone being triggered:


Read more: Woman throws drink on Lakers fans for kneeling for anthem | Daily Mail Online

So, if this woman was charged with battery, which I assure you, is what she committed, and you sat on the jury, would you vote convict?

Jury nullification. Lolz

 

[churchmouse]

I think you're close to my parents age. Do you think you ever endured systematic oppression to the degree of my parents. It's an open question. I'm not going give you grief if you say that you have. But if you say you "haven't," how valid would you say my parent's fears are, when they say "I've seen this before?"

Just saw this. Late to the party.

No. I personally have not experienced this myself. Remember I said I grew up through the tail end of the really bad stuff. I can not even imagine.
That said these are far different times. There may still be barriers we need to cross but that is for all sides to consider.

 

[PaulWest]

The Constitution is limitations on the government, not on citizens.

Are you suggesting that citizens ought to have their speech restricted/regulated? If so, which speech ought to be restricted/regulated?? And who gets to decide what people are not allowed to say?

 

[actaeon277]

Are you suggesting that citizens ought to have their speech restricted/regulated? If so, which speech ought to be restricted/regulated?? And who gets to decide what people are not allowed to say?

Did you read what I said?

The CONSTITUTION is limitations on the GOVERNMENT.
The CONSTITUTION is NOT limitations on CITIZENS.


If you are a waiter, and you tell the customers that the food sucks and that other restaurants are better, you can get fired.

 

[BugI02]

Just to comment on this, it's not necessarily a default. You can have one without the other. It'd be hard to argue that there was any notable black privilege during slavery. But it does exist today, as does white privilege. And what seems disingenuous to me is that we don't as universally condemn black privilege like we do white privilege. I'd like humans to evolve to a point where it doesn't matter. It's obvious that it still matters too much to people of all races.

And should we ever evolve to the point where race no longer matters, there will still be class and breeding waiting in the wings. I predict they will be much more stubborn to get past and in fact issues surrounding race may be serving as a smoke screen for the other issues

Think about how many wealthy and powerful individuals whose opinions, on matters far outside their areas of expertise, you know because they use the access provided by their positions of influence as a soapbox

I might care about Elon Musk's opinion about cutting edge battery technology or single-stage-to-orbit, but not so much about how to solve Puerto Rico's power infrastructure problems (and coincidently profit Elon Musk and his companies). Neither do I care about his opinions about Universal Basic Income, because he is not stepping up to foot the bill

Just an extension and enlargement of the celebrities thinking fame in a narrow area of endeavor means we should care about their opinions about everything

 

[BugI02]

What about Vanilla Ice who was chased out of the biz?

That was crossing the wrong guy (Sug Knight, IIRC). I think Tupak and Biggie prove it wasn't a skin color thing. If you cross the Don, doesn't matter if you're paisan

 

[PaulWest]

Did you read what I said?

The CONSTITUTION is limitations on the GOVERNMENT.
The CONSTITUTION is NOT limitations on CITIZENS.


If you are a waiter, and you tell the customers that the food sucks and that other restaurants are better, you can get fired.

I'm just asking for clarification about what you mean (as in the constitution applies to the government, not the citizens sort of thing...) - and including a couple of follow ups if the answer was yes...sorta loads the post, I suppose.

 

[BugI02]

I served and I don't understand any of this nonsense?

I swore to defend the Constitution of the USA... a big part of that is the right to free speech. Regulating their right to free speech seems to go against everything I swore to defend regardless of whether or not I agree with it. The president needs to shut his mouth and focus on fixing this country. Who gives a **** what spoiled football players do?

Coincidentally... regulating free speech sounds awefully pro-big government to me? It's ok for the President to call for regulation of the 1st amendment but not the 2nd... a little hypocritical.

NO ONE herein is asking for a federal law to be enacted to make kneeling for the anthem illegal (instead of just vacuous and stupid). You make the same mistake about what are "... your first amendment rights" that many others do. The Constitution may protect your right to say stupid things, dangerous to your financial well-being, from government interference; IT DOES NOT protect you from the consequences of the choices you make

 

[IndyGal65]

When in team uniform or otherwise representing the team or the NFL, their behavior expectations are defined by team management and ownership and the NFL. If the owners (or NFL) say you stand and salute the flag, you stand and salute the flag. It's as simple as that. The Dallas owner has made his expectations known and what the consequence will be: stand and salute and play, or sit on the bench and presumably don't get paid for the game. The argument they have a First Amendment right to not do so in contravention to team or league rules doesn't wash. They're in team uniform.

I have a major problem with the necessity of holding a financial gun to the heads of team owners and the league to change player behavior. I watched soldiers die for this nation first hand. One must also know the historical use of national and unit colors on the battlefield up through most of the 19th Century. A color guard was just that, and their function was very real on the battlefield. Those colors were sacred, to be protected at all cost. In the fog of battle a unit rallied to wherever its colors were located. A unit commander moved his colors to where he wanted the center of mass of his unit. That was their historical purpose on the battlefield for centuries. While not used in that manner for many reasons from WWI onward, one of the most poignant examples of the historical purpose arose during the 20th Century with their raising on Iwo Jima. The commander of US forces invading the island understood that and it's why he ordered the replacement of the small battle flag with a very large garrison size flag for all to clearly see from wherever they were on the island. To this day, a unit's colors with the national colors are sacred. Their protection with armed guards is not just symbolic. Public disrespect for that flag by the players spits on the graves of those who died for this nation. It's appalling team owners and the league allowed them to do that. It's equally appalling it required financial impact to the teams and the league to convince them this infantile player behavior was utterly unacceptable.

John

RACIST!
Just kidding, that was spot on!

 

[PaulWest]

NO ONE herein is asking for a federal law to be enacted to make kneeling for the anthem illegal (instead of just vacuous and stupid). You make the same mistake about what are "... your first amendment rights" that many others do. The Constitution may protect your right to say stupid things, dangerous to your financial well-being, from government interference; IT DOES NOT protect you from the consequences of the choices you make

Perhaps it isnt actual laws that he's questioning but rather the spirit of what the law would be - the underlying idea. Implicit in calling for the jobs of these players is the notion of regulation.

Its complicated because if everyone ought to be allowed to express themselves freely no matter what - well that would include the critics of a given expression too. Kneeling and criticizing kneeling are the same, to me. A business owner should probably mind the expressions coming out of his business too - which inherently restricts the expressions of others...

This is why dialogue is our most valuable, powerful tool. Without it, violence is our next and only option.

 

[IndyGal65]

That's a false equivalence. The person holding up his middle finger is directly, and purposefully, insulting the crowd. There's nobody in the crowd that wouldn't be insulted by the gesture. That's his intent, in his mind, and the crowd. The NFL kneelers don't have the intent of purposefully insulting the crowd. There may be some in the crowd that are insulted, but that based on personal opinion, not an overt action by the player with the intent to enrage.

Somebody better tell LeSean McCoy about purposefully stretching during the national anthem.

 

[Woobie]

I'll have ten years in come December. I've been lucky enough to only spend about 13 months or so away from my family, and that has been broken up. I've seen a lot of young men who have been mangled on the inside, and a few mangled on the outside. Some never quite came to terms with coming back, and they aren't with us anymore. We serve the flag and the constitution. I wouldn't want anyone's rights stepped on in the least. To ask that would be to nullify all those sacrifices.

Nor would I want anyone to blindly approve of everything our country has been or done. But the flag represents the ideal, the opportunity to right the wrongs, and to build a better America. That's what drives young people to shed their blood. Taking a knee is simply, and weakly, giving up on the ideal, and resigning yourself to only bemoaning the past. It is also a slap in the face of everyone who has put on the uniform.

If you appreciate those who fight for the flag, show it by respecting the flag. If you do not appreciate what others have died to pass on to you, that is your right. But you are a despicable person, and you will have no support or respect from me.

From what I can tell, those who kneel, or support those who do, either do not comprehend what the flag represents, or they place more value on a


***Game***


than honor.

 

[jamil]

Because it is not a protest, it is a feel-good exercize for those taking the knee. It makes them feel good about themselves and how they are actually doing 'something' about the 'problem', without having to march, or get sweaty, or upset the neighbors at the gated community or be late to the club

It's like the cast members of Hamilton breaking the fourth wall to mob shame Pence. They only are in a position to be the center of attention for the purpose of being entertainers, and they abuse the privilege at their peril. Perhaps the willingness of Hollywood celebrities to insert their inane and simplistic understanding of events into pretty much everything has convinced these people that their opinions actually matter to the majority of Americans

I think they think they're protesting something. I also think if Kaepernick would have chased some different bootie, he'd probably be playing in the NFL. Maybe not for the 49ers, and maybe not starting, but somewhere. And, probably the NFL ratings would be better.

See how much impact that stuff has? I mean. She's pretty hot, if you ask me. But not worth all of this.

 

[jamil]

And should we ever evolve to the point where race no longer matters, there will still be class and breeding waiting in the wings. I predict they will be much more stubborn to get past and in fact issues surrounding race may be serving as a smoke screen for the other issues

Think about how many wealthy and powerful individuals whose opinions, on matters far outside their areas of expertise, you know because they use the access provided by their positions of influence as a soapbox

I might care about Elon Musk's opinion about cutting edge battery technology or single-stage-to-orbit, but not so much about how to solve Puerto Rico's power infrastructure problems (and coincidently profit Elon Musk and his companies). Neither do I care about his opinions about Universal Basic Income, because he is not stepping up to foot the bill

Just an extension and enlargement of the celebrities thinking fame in a narrow area of endeavor means we should care about their opinions about everything

Elon Musk, that ********ing crony capitalist, can kiss my ....

 

[Liberty1916]

Elon Musk, that ********ing crony capitalist, can kiss my ....

I frequent a car forum. They HATE him there.