Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[jamil]

My fault. I meant that I believe they agree with my stance.

I don't doubt that. But are you blaming America? Is America wrong? Did America wrong you? Or, is it that some, even many, individual humans with normal human failings wrong people because of race? Should I protest America because I can't walk in certain neighborhoods safely? Racial prejudice is a multi-way street.

 

[Kutnupe14]

"It's crazy how you get a lot of hateful comments, a lot of head shaking, a lot of eyes that are looking at you in disgust," Vernon said. "It's crazy how there's a lot of hate going on when you're just trying to do good for your community and for your country. It's very eye-opening."
​

Let's say you're a performer, taking the money of the fans around you, and you stick a middle finger up at the whole crowd and say "**** you". The reaction you get you might interpret as hate. Surely you'll get some disgusted looks. People aren't going to treat you with respect, that's for sure.

If you're going to use your free speech, it's helpful to use it wisely in a way people understand what you're really protesting.

"A lot of times they see us in our uniforms and they don't get to see us outside of the field. And I think it's the same thing with the officers - they wanted to come and get to know the kids a little bit," Herzlich said. "As this is all swirling with the national anthem protests, it's important for us players to make it publicly known that we're not protesting against America, we're not protesting against our armed forces or the police. We just want equality. That's what our demonstration is about."
​

Then protest in a way that doesn't impugn America. Saying you can't honor the flag of a country that oppresses black people is blaming America. If you really didn't mean it that way, don't say it that way. The speaker has a greater responsibility in a successful communication transaction than the listener. If you kneel with the guy who said it that way, people will naturally think you're saying that to.

I disagree. Impgn America. America is a collective. Speaking generally, a negative issue that is of concern to some of us, should be a concern to to all. As for Kaepernick original protest and how he framed it, I think that was ill-advised. The statement you cited, he said after he sat on the bench during the anthem.... and after it was explained to him how it would be viewed by a military member, he modified his protest to a kneel, to show that he was not trying to dishonor those who served, but rather his is illustrating his dissatisfaction with the way America appears to be to him, and many other people, who don't have the stage that he has.
Kap's protests are, believe it or not, are better received than those of the civil rights movement of the 60s.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don't doubt that. But are you blaming America? Is America wrong? Did America wrong you? Or, is it that some, even many, individual humans with normal human failings wrong people because of race? Should I protest America because I can't walk in certain neighborhoods safely? Racial prejudice is a multi-way street.

Does America have to wrong me specifically, before I am able to speak up about other things I see that are wrong?

 

[churchmouse]

"It's crazy how you get a lot of hateful comments, a lot of head shaking, a lot of eyes that are looking at you in disgust," Vernon said. "It's crazy how there's a lot of hate going on when you're just trying to do good for your community and for your country. It's very eye-opening."
​

Let's say you're a performer, taking the money of the fans around you, and you stick a middle finger up at the whole crowd and say "**** you". The reaction you get you might interpret as hate. Surely you'll get some disgusted looks. People aren't going to treat you with respect, that's for sure.

If you're going to use your free speech, it's helpful to use it wisely in a way people understand what you're really protesting.

"A lot of times they see us in our uniforms and they don't get to see us outside of the field. And I think it's the same thing with the officers - they wanted to come and get to know the kids a little bit," Herzlich said. "As this is all swirling with the national anthem protests, it's important for us players to make it publicly known that we're not protesting against America, we're not protesting against our armed forces or the police. We just want equality. That's what our demonstration is about."
​

Then protest in a way that doesn't impugn America. Saying you can't honor the flag of a country that oppresses black people is blaming America. If you really didn't mean it that way, don't say it that way. The speaker has a greater responsibility in a successful communication transaction than the listener. If you kneel with the guy who said it that way, people will naturally think you're saying that to.

Ha. Well said.
Flip me off and you will get a face full of me. Regardless.

As to what BA said, that is the way I see this whole thing. I go out of my way to accept everyone regardless of skin tone or point of origin. When I get discriminated against (and yes it happens all the time because I am white. This will be discussed in person only) and get the evil looks for no real reason maybe I see what some have endured. Also my direct cultural insight is a blessing towards understanding some of these issues. I was a witness to some seriously idiotic behavior of a reserve LEO during race time (500) directed at my SIL most likely due to his skin tone. I near went to jail during this because it really pi$$ed me off. Long story for another time. Just saying I have seen it 1st hand.

In all of this LEO faces a threat daily from those who are totally lawless. They do not wear signs or announce who they are beyond idiotic non-compliant behavior. I have seen this a lot as well. So some of the reactions/responses can be understood. LEO is now a target. What do we do about this.

There is work to be done. Stirring up the pile is not the way to get this accomplished.

OK....lets see the list in total.

 

[churchmouse]

Does America have to wrong me specifically, before I am able to speak up about other things I see that are wrong?

No.

Do I have to have my time/life disrupted for these things. Especially if I am not involved.

We all have a voice. Alone it is not very loud. Together it is very strong. Pick the right place. Gather in protest and let it be known what you are actually trying to change. If these athletes gathered in their respective city's in organized peaceful protest with a solid agenda the cameras and talking heads would be right there. Disrupt our lives and your message gets put back and anger ensues.

 

[Kutnupe14]

"It's crazy how you get a lot of hateful comments, a lot of head shaking, a lot of eyes that are looking at you in disgust," Vernon said. "It's crazy how there's a lot of hate going on when you're just trying to do good for your community and for your country. It's very eye-opening."
​

Let's say you're a performer, taking the money of the fans around you, and you stick a middle finger up at the whole crowd and say "**** you". The reaction you get you might interpret as hate. Surely you'll get some disgusted looks. People aren't going to treat you with respect, that's for sure.

If you're going to use your free speech, it's helpful to use it wisely in a way people understand what you're really protesting.

"A lot of times they see us in our uniforms and they don't get to see us outside of the field. And I think it's the same thing with the officers - they wanted to come and get to know the kids a little bit," Herzlich said. "As this is all swirling with the national anthem protests, it's important for us players to make it publicly known that we're not protesting against America, we're not protesting against our armed forces or the police. We just want equality. That's what our demonstration is about."
​

Then protest in a way that doesn't impugn America. Saying you can't honor the flag of a country that oppresses black people is blaming America. If you really didn't mean it that way, don't say it that way. The speaker has a greater responsibility in a successful communication transaction than the listener. If you kneel with the guy who said it that way, people will naturally think you're saying that to.

That's a false equivalence. The person holding up his middle finger is directly, and purposefully, insulting the crowd. There's nobody in the crowd that wouldn't be insulted by the gesture. That's his intent, in his mind, and the crowd. The NFL kneelers don't have the intent of purposefully insulting the crowd. There may be some in the crowd that are insulted, but that based on personal opinion, not an overt action by the player with the intent to enrage.

 

[indiucky]

I got my Ancestry DNA back and found out I am 99% European and 1% South Asian......I feel that anyone who disagrees with me just has something against Asians...We Asian's have faced a lot of discrimination...It hurts....

 

[Kutnupe14]

No.

Do I have to have my time/life disrupted for these things. Especially if I am not involved.

We all have a voice. Alone it is not very loud. Together it is very strong. Pick the right place. Gather in protest and let it be known what you are actually trying to change. If these athletes gathered in their respective city's in organized peaceful protest with a solid agenda the cameras and talking heads would be right there. Disrupt our lives and your message gets put back and anger ensues.

Also no, and I encourage you to make you displeasure known. Just recognize that your opinion is an opinion, and there are those that disagree.

 

[churchmouse]

Also no, and I encourage you to make you displeasure known. Just recognize that your opinion is an opinion, and there are those that disagree.

Exactly hence the discussion.
Society has a long way to go admittedly.
We all see the world through eyes colored with our personal experiences.

Oh crap.....I said colored. Small point made here.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I got my Ancestry DNA back and found out I am 99% European and 1% South Asian......I feel that anyone who disagrees with me just has something against Asians...We Asian's have faced a lot of discrimination...It hurts....

Not uncommon...

Meanwhile in Asia:

 

[churchmouse]

Not uncommon...

Meanwhile in Asia:

Wow.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Exactly hence the discussion.
Society has a long way to go admittedly.
We all see the world through eyes colored with our personal experiences.

Oh crap.....I said colored. Small point made here.

I think you're close to my parents age. Do you think you ever endured systematic oppression to the degree of my parents. It's an open question. I'm not going give you grief if you say that you have. But if you say you "haven't," how valid would you say my parent's fears are, when they say "I've seen this before?"

 

[Kutnupe14]

Wow.

The thing you have to watch out for in Asia (Japan specifically), as a black person, is random people coming up to you and touching your hair. Not so much in Tokyo, But Osaka, certainly.

 

[churchmouse]

The thing you have to watch out for in Asia (Japan specifically), as a black person, is random people coming up to you and touching your hair. Not so much in Tokyo, But Osaka, certainly.

I grew up with an Asian family. We called them "Chinese" eyes and they called us "Round" eyes. The spanky and our gang thing of "No ticky no washy was pretty common as well.
Thing is it was all a hoot. Those kids could hold their own and we laughed our butts off. They were a solid part of the group my younger brother and sisters hung with. I was more the defender when they got into scraps and I was as much with the Asian kids as my own siblings. Nobody messed with my group. I see them all to this day. Not often but always good when I do.

I am this way with the many friends of color I am blessed to know.
What ever happened to that mindset.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I grew up with an Asian family. We called them "Chinese" eyes and they called us "Round" eyes. The spanky and our gang thing of "No ticky no washy was pretty common as well.
Thing is it was all a hoot. Those kids could hold their own and we laughed our butts off. They were a solid part of the group my younger brother and sisters hung with. I was more the defender when they got into scraps and I was as much with the Asian kids as my own siblings. Nobody messed with my group. I see them all to this day. Not often but always good when I do.

I am this way with the many friends of color I am blessed to know.
What ever happened to that mindset.

The internet and social media. Ignorance, truly is bliss.

 

[indiucky]

Not uncommon...Meanwhile in Asia:

SOUTH ASIA!!!! As in India....Why do people lump us all together????? My 1 percent Indian (dot) is bubbling and seething with racial indignation.....

 

[indiucky]

The thing you have to watch out for in Asia (Japan specifically), as a black person, is random people coming up to you and touching your hair. Not so much in Tokyo, But Osaka, certainly.

I hear you...I get this a lot....

[video=youtube;BnP_mZAv8gE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnP_mZAv8gE[/video]

 

[Kutnupe14]

SOUTH ASIA!!!! As in India....Why do people lump us all together????? My 1 percent Indian (dot) is bubbling and seething with racial indignation.....

Lol

 

[indiucky]

I grew up with an Asian family. We called them "Chinese" eyes and they called us "Round" eyes.

[video=youtube;3IiQU1p4-9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IiQU1p4-9E[/video]

 

[Liberty1916]

I disagree. Impgn America. America is a collective. Speaking generally, a negative issue that is of concern to some of us, should be a concern to to all. As for Kaepernick original protest and how he framed it, I think that was ill-advised. The statement you cited, he said after he sat on the bench during the anthem.... and after it was explained to him how it would be viewed by a military member, he modified his protest to a kneel, to show that he was not trying to dishonor those who served, but rather his is illustrating his dissatisfaction with the way America appears to be to him, and many other people, who don't have the stage that he has.
Kap's protests are, believe it or not, are better received than those of the civil rights movement of the 60s.

In a country where we've stripped away certain property rights and freedom of association in an effort to right the wrongs of the past, where we give preference in every Federal/State/Local government job, preference in college admissions, and preference in hiring at every large company I'm aware of, it's simply not a credible assertion that America is "racist" or "oppresses people of color". I bet your own PD has a "diversity" initiative and actively recruits and gives hiring preference to "people of color". Black privilege, it's real, and no reasonable person is going to buy into the "America is racist" narrative. People who believe that are either throwing childish tantrums or actual racists themselves.