.22LR Range Fun

[zachcz]

 

[TJ Kackowski]

@doddg bad news, but you're going to want to change out that "Browning" red dot with something better before you start your testing. That design has been branded for more than a few companies over the years. It really is a cheap POS. I had a red dot of this design with a Sig Sauer label and the dot jumped around with each shot ... it was impossible to zero, so was repurposed, but not on any of my firearms.

 

[jwamplerusa]

@doddg

That Buckmark is like mine, with an optic.

I too have had issues with the Aguila dragging in the Buckmark mag. The Aguila did not do that in the past. I suspect there has been a change to their lube / wax which increases the drag in the Buckmark mag over the last two years.

It's truly amazing how much difference small things can make. I had considered my Winchester 190 simply no longer capable of good accuracy. The installation of new sling swivels and a USGI web sling made a tremendous difference.


Winchester 190, 25 yards, 15 rnds standing supported, no sling.



Winchester 190 25 yds 10 rnds, with new sling and re-zeroed. Ignore the flyer, that was not part of the group on the lower number 9.

Now if I could find a way to improve my pistolcraft the same way.

 

[doddg]

View attachment 258867

Brilliant!
Makes my teacher's heart flutter, haha!

 

[doddg]

@doddg bad news, but you're going to want to change out that "Browning" red dot with something better before you start your testing. That design has been branded for more than a few companies over the years. It really is a cheap POS. I had a red dot of this design with a Sig Sauer label and the dot jumped around with each shot ... it was impossible to zero, so was repurposed, but not on any of my firearms.

The seller told me what he didn't pay much for the Brwng red dot, so I was forewarned.
I was going to take another red dot today, but I forgot, in case the groups were not to my liking.

I plan to go back to the range Wednesday so I'll see if my red dot that's available will do well or even if I've got a handgun scope available.
Since my red dot on red target was very difficult to see, just using a different target could help.

 

[doddg]

@doddg

That Buckmark is like mine, with an optic.

I too have had issues with the Aguila dragging in the Buckmark mag. The Aguila did not do that in the past. I suspect there has been a change to their lube / wax which increases the drag in the Buckmark mag over the last two years.

It's truly amazing how much difference small things can make. I had considered my Winchester 190 simply no longer capable of good accuracy. The installation of new sling swivels and a USGI web sling made a tremendous difference.

View attachment 258875
Winchester 190, 25 yards, 15 rnds standing supported, no sling.


View attachment 258876
Winchester 190 25 yds 10 rnds, with new sling and re-zeroed. Ignore the flyer, that was not part of the group on the lower number 9.

Now if I could find a way to improve my pistolcraft the same way.

I agree, never had issue with Aguila before, it was one of my "go-to" inexpensive rds for years.
It will be interesting to see how it works in some other guns.

I can't fathom shooting a rifle w/o a rest, even at 25 yds!
The neck, the back, the eyes, the shoulders, the hands, won't allow it, haha!

 

[SAILORGOLF46]

You guys are way to technical for me, I could tell I was shooting better when I graduated from 16 oz beer cans down to Campbell soup cans as targets. But I enjoy reading your results. Should be purple but don't know how.

 

[700 LTR 223]

In all the tens of thousands of rounds of 22lr fired over many years the Buckmark is one 22 handgun that I have never had a chance to shoot. Lots of rounds through Ruger MKIIs , 22/45s, Smith 41 , pair of 617s , a Single Six. My new comers from last year a Sig P322 and Smith Victory.

 

[gregkl]

In all the tens of thousands of rounds of 22lr fired over many years the Buckmark is one 22 handgun that I have never had a chance to shoot. Lots of rounds through Ruger MKIIs , 22/45s, Smith 41 , pair of 617s , a Single Six. My new comers from last year a Sig P322 and Smith Victory.

How do/did you like the MKII vs the 22/45? I have a MKII and though it is very accurate and reliable it is not user friendly if I decide to shoot certain matches. That is what I bought the TX22C for.

But if I really get into shooting competitively, I may want something more than the TX so I have taken a casual look lately at the MKIV's and 22/45's but there are so many options, I don't know really where to start.

 

[doddg]

In all the tens of thousands of rounds of 22lr fired over many years the Buckmark is one 22 handgun that I have never had a chance to shoot. Lots of rounds through Ruger MKIIs , 22/45s, Smith 41 , pair of 617s , a Single Six. My new comers from last year a Sig P322 and Smith Victory.

I've had them all multiple times except only shot the Sig 322, 2-3 times.
At one time my goal was to have one each of all the basic .22LR handguns.
I would always ended up asking asking "Why?" when I wasn't having fun anymore b/c I'd want to try out something different & there always was a gun begging for attention in the classifieds, haha!

Twice, I've sold off nearly everything but the SW 41 & the Dan Wesson 54 oz, 8" monster revolver & start over.
Now, I have some other permanent "keepers," that I've learned not to let go after selling off the same in the past & regretting it:
- S/W 22A-1 Talo edition (had 4-5 of 22A-1)
- Browning Buckmark 10" Silhouette with 4 upgrades (had 7-8 Buckmarks)
- SW 422 6" threaded barrel (had 2-3 & really regretted selling the one with adjustable rear sights)

I now am enjoying being on a Browning Buckmark kick.
After shooting the Sig 322, I was going to buy one when the price got back to its $400 MSRP.
While waiting, a friend sold me a Taurus TX Competition & a Kel-Tec CP33 & don't have anymore room in the same with all the others not mentioned taking up space, haha!

 

[700 LTR 223]

How do/did you like the MKII vs the 22/45? I have a MKII and though it is very accurate and reliable it is not user friendly if I decide to shoot certain matches. That is what I bought the TX22C for.

But if I really get into shooting competitively, I may want something more than the TX so I have taken a casual look lately at the MKIV's and 22/45's but there are so many options, I don't know really where to start.

The MKIIs and original series 22/45s all shoot very well for me , the main difference obviously is the grip frame. MKII angled and 22/45 tries to emulate a 1911 feel. The MKII original plastic grips have better grip texture , the 22/45 is pretty smooth. My 4" 22/45 is one of my most often fired 22 pistols. Easy to keep on target , use a Vortex Venom on it and Volquartsen sear/trigger. One of the best deals I've had on a pistol too!

A 25 yard target from last weekend.

 

[doddg]

Took 3 pistols with red dots to the range today.
Two belonged to Zackcz:
- Ruger Mark 3 (Zackcz let me dial in the red dot)
- Taurus TX Compact (Zackcz put on a Holosun red dot)
I brought 3 other Buckmarks today, but only had time to shoot one.

I used only Federal AutoMatch ammo, shooting nearly a 325 rd box today.
30' on a rest.
10 rds per "diamond" with the middle two horizontal "bars" & the bottom vertical "bar" getting 5 rds each at the end of the "bar."

Really a Mark 3, not a Mark 4 as I incorrectly wrote on the target.
5/50 rounds not on the 5 "diamonds."


Taurus TX Compact with inexpensive red dot.
19/50 rds not on the 5 "diamonds."
Don't intend to shoot this TX again.


My 4th Browning Buckmark, which is a Pro Target 5.5" bull barrel w/Browning red dot.
I chose this one to shoot today since it is the least accurate of my Buckmark.
I wanted to show Zackcz the superiority of the least of my Brownings over the Ruger & Taurus, at least in my hands, haha!
I knew instantly I was getting tighter groups.
It was recommended that I use a better red dot & I brought it to switch it out, but forgot about it, haha!

2/50 rounds not on the 5 "diamonds."

 

[doddg]

This is such a wonderful week, going to the range x3.
Without the pleasant diversion of 1-2 guns of Zackcz's to shoot, I got to confirm the pecking order of 3 of my 4 Browning Buckmarks.
The 4th & oldest one, a Silhouette Target 10" Buckmark is not being tested today b/c it's accuracy has been proved being bought in the summer of 2021 (pic below).

Federal AutoMatch again today.
- Row 1 & 4 at 30' Buckmark Pro Target that I got just last weekend from a member that I'd dealt with before.
This Pro Target with the red dot doesn't get 100% rows at 30' like my other red dot pistols, but I like the feel of it b/c it is heavier than my Lite Gray Buckmark (I call "Silver").
- Row 2 at 21' Buckmark Lite Gray ("Silver"), bought from another member, that does well as a non-optic pistol at 100% consistently.
(Note: overlook the 1st circle on 2nd row, that says "wrong gun," it was actually the the wrong distance since I forgot to move the target from 30' for the red dot to 21' for the iron sights.
- Row 3 at 21' Buckmark Plus Vision Black/Gold, yes, bought from yet another member, that probably be kept for my non-optic Browning, getting 100% consistently.


Browning Buckmark Pro Target w/Browning Red Dot


Brpwning Buckmark Lite Gray (I call, Silver).


Browning Buckmark Buck Mark Plus Vision Black/Gold


Probably my favorite pistol since Zackcz found it for me unexpectedly (like he has done many times ) & it was like nothing else I had in the safe.
I wish I could put one of my inexpensive red dots on it, I'll not spend the $$ to get the kind that is made to fit it, maybe if I could find it used, then it could join my red dot 30' 100% Club,
It has some great upgrades!

These rds are on 3.5" circles, but look at the 5 rds of the cloverleaf nearly perfectly centered.
I simple elevation adjustment on the 1st circle to get the 2nd circle nailed.
NOTE: I just realized that since I shot 45' on the 1st circle & elevation was higher probably was b/c the bullet was still climbing & not that I had to adjust the elevation to get my 2nd circle cloverleaf.
Indeed, an example of the gun being more accurate than I am.
I RARELY get a cloverleaf, even using a rifle at 25 yds.


The Brwng Bckmrk Silhouette Target 10" is on the 2nd row, not as impressive as I've had in the past, b/c most of my earlier targets are too hard to find b/c of not being labelled when the pics transferred from my old to my new cmp.
This target shows 2 other 100% Club "keeper' pistols:
- SW 41 on 1st row
- KelTec CP 33 on 4th row after adjusting elevation when 3rd row was not dialed in.
The KelTec's last circle on the 4th row had the best group of the day!

 

[G192127]

Enjoy your reports

 

[700 LTR 223]

These rds are on 3.5" circles, but look at the 5 rds of the cloverleaf nearly perfectly centered.
I simple elevation adjustment on the 1st circle to get the 2nd circle nailed.
Indeed, an example of the gun being more accurate than I am.
I RARELY get a cloverleaf, even using a rifle at 25 yds.
View attachment 259729

So the 1st group was 45 feet? Nice one hole group on the 2nd target!

 

[doddg]

So the 1st group was 45 feet? Nice one hole group on the 2nd target!

Yes, 45' or 15 yds.
I never shoot that far usually & just wanted to see how it would do.
It must have shot higher on the 1st circle b/c the bullet was still climbing instead of my having to adjust to get the cloverleaf.

 

[gregkl]

Doddg, do you feel like overall the Buckmarks are your most accurate shooting pistols? Between the 41, the various Rugers and Taurus's you have owned/shot?

 

[doddg]

Doddg, do you feel like overall the Buckmarks are your most accurate shooting pistols? Between the 41, the various Rugers and Taurus's you have owned/shot?

Short answer: yes!

When I see a thread about someone asking about which .22LR to buy, I'm really surprised that the Ruger Mark 4s & the Smith Victorys make people's recommended list.
I could list another dozen, like the Taurus TX, Glock 44 & Sig 322 & on & on.
I've tried them all, sometimes 4-5 times over, just b/c the price was right & I could play again, haha!
I always end up selling them, sometimes in the same week as bought b/c at 21' on my 1.75" circles, they can't do a row of 100% of 5/5 rds.
My better guns can do a whole page of 5/5 at 100%.
Lesser guns can't do 1 row.
But, I've learned that some guns are fun and/or different enough that I'll keep them for enjoyment until I get into a "trimming" mode.
But, even I have a hard time justifying 4 Buckmarks, haha!
The 10" will always be in the safe & I want a non-optic Buckmark, as well.
That doesn't explain having 4, except for the fun of keep buying yet another Buckmark to see if it can beat either of the non-optics (Vision and/or the Lite Gray).
I bought the Lite Gray for that reason, like I bought the Pro Target w/Browning red dot, to see if it could compete.
In my heart, I didn't think they would & I was right, but when the price is right, I don't mind giving it a whirl, haha!

Buckmarks have always been a bit more accurate for me.
Though, I did have a Buckmark 4" barrel that wasn't accurate enough to suit me years ago.

The SW 41 & the 10" Buckmark Silhouette are in another category & class of their own.
My eyes/hands could be the limiting factor in all this.
I do have a couple of others which might be at their level, but I'd have to check the targets.

 

[Hookeye]

Ive shot 22/45 and various Ruger Mark series target models. Colt Woodsmans and Huntsmans, a few diff High Standards.

Havent shot a Hammerli Xesse.

Am actually content w my Buckmark 5.5 w reflex.

When I had good eyes a heavy Kart 1911 conversion was tough to beat. Dug it out and function tested it yesterday. Ran fine.

Target guns of heft help when shooting offhand. But are a bit of a chore in field carry. Think my Buckmark splits the diff but is still kinda big. Hence my wanting to check out a Hammerli

 

[doddg]

Took Browning Red Dot off the latest Buckmark I bought: the Pro Target.
I wanted to try using the iron sights if it could get 100% on a row of the 1.75" circles at 21' like the Buckmark Lite Gray ("Silver") & the Buckmark Plus Vision that don't have red dots.

I was surprised that the picatinny rail the previous owner bought allowing the application of a red dot had rear adjustable sights: both windage & elevation.
Never before had seen adjustable rear sights that were an integrated part of a separate Picatinny rail.
I have the original rear sights which I'm sure are better but the ones on the Picatinny rail worked fine.

Used Federal AutoMatch like I did with the Plus Vision & the Lite Gray last week so I could directly compare.
I was impressed that it did better w/o the red dot, even though with iron sights I shoot at 21', not at 30' as with an optic.
Improvement!
It is shooting 90% & 95% (x2), enough to qualify as a potential "keeper" now.
So close to getting 100% twice!
Just couldn't quite get a 5 on each circle in a row = 100%, as with the other 2 Buckmarks.
But, it took me 2-3 range visits to do that, so I still might be able to get the Pro Target on board.
If so, I'll sell the Lite Gray ("Silver").
Pic of Pro Target below this range target.


Ignore row 1 & 4 since I was using a red dot on the Pro Target last week.
You can see that the Lite Gray ("Silver) & Plus Vision can so 100% in a row.
I do like shooting the Pro Target better since I don't care for the "light" versions of a gun.
I like the "heft" in my hand.