2020 Legislative Session Thread

[brotherbill3]

Article on SB 436

https://www.theindianalawyer.com/ar...s2Zi3lS40p-ekuS96EETKTRx39wB2CfvHXkU4j_SGpNbk

I am unavailable today. At a conference for work. Drat. Try to get to something in the 2nd half. More later.

 

[chipbennett]

Fyi floor amendment 1 for second reading on HB1159

Is one of the bad storage bills 1159 may get to 2nd readiing today if they return after a break to work more.


HB 1132 - changes some language related to RF laws (an removal of SN from firearms) ... passed 3rd reading ... on to senate - need to review.

MOST IMPORTANTLY
BUT - ALSO - indirectly related.

SB 436 - gives state AG the power to prosecute (now thru a special prosecutor) cases a local / county prosecutor choses not to pursue - for WHATEVER reason ...

so very dangerous /game changing to Sanctuary County Movement ... for now thought to be due to Marion Co. not pursuing Marijuana charges for smaller amounts - but this is a MAJOR shift of power to the STATE from LOCALgovernments ... sources of info are from multiple 2A attorneys. ...

My libertarian leanings come out here. I couldn't care less about marijuana, and would actually prefer Marion County pursue, oh, I don't know, maybe the homicides and other violent felonies that happen there, instead of busting people for smoking pot.

But my question here is: if SB436 is supposedly related to Marion County's failure to prosecute marijuana busts, how would that even happen? Eventually, police will stop charging people, since they know the cases will go nowhere. So in that case, the AG would have no case to prosecute. Thus, is this really about marijuana at all?

When is this in front of the committee?

 

[KellyinAvon]

My libertarian leanings come out here. I couldn't care less about marijuana, and would actually prefer Marion County pursue, oh, I don't know, maybe the homicides and other violent felonies that happen there, instead of busting people for smoking pot.

But my question here is: if SB436 is supposedly related to Marion County's failure to prosecute marijuana busts, how would that even happen? Eventually, police will stop charging people, since they know the cases will go nowhere. So in that case, the AG would have no case to prosecute. Thus, is this really about marijuana at all?

When is this in front of the committee?

yesterday, passed 6-3. Onto the Senate for a floor vote then it goes to the house, have to wait and see where it goes.

like I said in another post, we got to keep our eyes open in all directions

 

[rsklar]

2 items of note guys:

SB-263 is up for a hearing Wed 01/22/2020 1:30 pm Senate chamber (Ed and Career Devel.) - this is the teacher training bill - which I think (Kelly has better undertanding) is similar to one that was defeated last year - but it may be a good thing to see this go down.

Does anyone know what the "training" will actually be? There is no indication of who will issue the training requirements, will they be realistic, available, etc. Obviously if we want teachers/staff to be able to protect our children, they should be trained in the type of shooting activities that would take place in the school environment. But I have seen where requirements are set and no one can actually obtain the training.

 

[rsklar]

So HB1211
Creates sovereign classes of citizens that have more rights than the rest of us on the government center campus. That's some bull crap right there.
Lawmakers legislating themselves more rights than the people they are voted in by. More oath breaking

I agree. There are numerous states (Kentucky, Michigan, Texas, Nebraska, Missouri and Wyoming) that allow either concealed or open carry in State Capitols. We should push for the same. Why should the legislative staff be treated differently?

On a side note: If a person is going to Conceal Carry in an area that is highly public, ie., school, capitol, public venues, I think that some minimal training on how to respond, use cover, moving and shooting, identification of other threats or "friends" and proper response when LE arrives are important. Too many instances where good guys are shot by well meaning Concealed Carry holders. Think about it, anyone can get a License with zero ability to use it safely. If that the person you want getting into a shootout inside Walmart with an active shooter? Or a school with your kids? Just MHO

 

[KellyinAvon]

2 items of note guys:

SB-263 is up for a hearing Wed 01/22/2020 1:30 pm Senate chamber (Ed and Career Devel.) - this is the teacher training bill - which I think (Kelly has better undertanding) is similar to one that was defeated last year - but it may be a good thing to see this go down.

Does anyone know what the "training" will actually be? There is no indication of who will issue the training requirements, will they be realistic, available, etc. Obviously if we want teachers/staff to be able to protect our children, they should be trained in the type of shooting activities that would take place in the school environment. But I have seen where requirements are set and no one can actually obtain the training.

263 goes too far, mandating training vice school board making the call. Also very specific on who can do the training

 

[KellyinAvon]

Oh yeah, I’m here. Not SRO like last year with 1253

 

[KellyinAvon]

6 mad moms and the every town generic db here too.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

263 goes too far, mandating training vice school board making the call. Also very specific on who can do the training

Thank you so much for posting this! I'm getting accused of being in it for "financial gain" on Lucas' FB page. The bill doesn't spell out what the requirements are to get the training grant... for example, does the school have to show proof of being able to pay and having an insurance policy that may cost $2500 or more, per teacher per year? Because if they can't, they are probably not going to have a program and the TAXPAYER money used for training would be wasted. Way too many questions in addition to what you mentioned. But be careful mentioning who can do the training if you are a firearms instructor! Relford and Lucas will accuse you of opposing their nonsense for financial gain. Who stands to gain financially if the bill passes? The LAWYERS who will need to be consulted, and the Instructors Lucas has picked. Relford was the one who floated the idea of "Financial interest" by those opposed. Laughable. (I'm Referring to the HOUSE version, 1028.)

WE ALREADY HAVE THE FREEDOM TO ARM TEACHERS IN INDIANA! LEAVE IT ALONE!

Indy Gun Safety did the initial training for the first group of school administrators seeking to be armed at school, in our state's history. I have not been actively training in 4 years because of my day job. So asserting "financial interest" is a pathetic attempt to discredit my opposition to this legislation. (Referring to the HOUSE version, 1028.)

IT INTRODUCES GOVERNMENT INTO THE SUBJECT WHERE NONE IS REQUIRED, AND MAKES THE TAXPAYER PAY FOR IT!

 

[KellyinAvon]

I’m just now leaving, I think y’all owe me a cheeseburger

 

[2A_Tom]

We'll need a mailing address.

 

[KellyinAvon]

We'll need a mailing address.

You funny man, a regular Bob Hope. I'm home, cryptic message decipher coming soon!

 

[brotherbill3]

I’m just now leaving, I think y’all owe me a cheeseburger

Done, when we rally. I kept checking all afternoon between sessions at my conference. That committee meeting went on forever. ... Wow.

I guess I need to look at the committee amendments that were adopted.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Done, when we rally. I kept checking all afternoon between sessions at my conference. That committee meeting went on forever. ... Wow.

I guess I need to look at the committee amendments that were adopted.

Yeah that was watching paint dry long. It was much more enjoyable after I left and found Jim Lucas with two NRA-ILA attorneys watching it out in the hallway.

Starting on the decryption now...

 

[MCgrease08]

I agree. There are numerous states (Kentucky, Michigan, Texas, Nebraska, Missouri and Wyoming) that allow either concealed or open carry in State Capitols. We should push for the same. Why should the legislative staff be treated differently?

On a side note: If a person is going to Conceal Carry in an area that is highly public, ie., school, capitol, public venues, I think that some minimal training on how to respond, use cover, moving and shooting, identification of other threats or "friends" and proper response when LE arrives are important. Too many instances where good guys are shot by well meaning Concealed Carry holders. Think about it, anyone can get a License with zero ability to use it safely. If that the person you want getting into a shootout inside Walmart with an active shooter? Or a school with your kids? Just MHO

At the risk of taking this thread off track, would you care to share proof of these instances? You know, since there are so many of them.

 

[chipbennett]

I agree. There are numerous states (Kentucky, Michigan, Texas, Nebraska, Missouri and Wyoming) that allow either concealed or open carry in State Capitols. We should push for the same. Why should the legislative staff be treated differently?

On a side note: If a person is going to Conceal Carry in an area that is highly public, ie., school, capitol, public venues, I think that some minimal training on how to respond, use cover, moving and shooting, identification of other threats or "friends" and proper response when LE arrives are important. Too many instances where good guys are shot by well meaning Concealed Carry holders. Think about it, anyone can get a License with zero ability to use it safely. If that the person you want getting into a shootout inside Walmart with an active shooter? Or a school with your kids? Just MHO

[Citation Needed]

Personally, I believe this is an utterly specious assertion. More police officers (who ostensibly have the very training you suggest) have shot "good guys" than concealed carry holders. (And I'm fairly certain I can back that up with statistics, in at least a couple states.)

 

[KellyinAvon]

From the cryptic notes:
Supposed to start at 1230, it was 1245. I'm retired Military, BE ON TIME!!

Had three amend/vote bills first, there is no need to read the amendments verbatim. Shout outs are not required either.

More verbatim and shout outs, 11 AMENDMENTS?? 9 minutes, felt much longer.

SB 244, teacher pay, all the union types, UGH.

They sneaked in SB 346 in front of 263. Dyslexia and standardized testing. Senator Houchin (married to the Washington County Prosecutor, he played baseball with my BIL so I remember him from back in the day at the in-laws) was lead, several Moms of dyslexic children testified. At some point I wrote HARD because I wanted to go hug my adult sons who don't like hugging me. Dept of Education puke #1: I wanted to punch him. Dept of Education puke #2 was doing her best Christine Ballsey Ford imitation with the vocal fry. At 1520 Senator Aaron Freeman (solid friend of 2A) SMOKED them.

It's now 1443 (that's 2:43 pm if you don't do the 24-hour clock) and SB 263 gets called and yes that's 2 HOURS in to the session.

Holdman (from the poison pill amendment last year): said a few things that annoyed me, strikes me as a controlling from 200 W Washington St type. He was wrong about how HB 1253 died last year (in the House, it wasn't in the Senate.) Generally I disliked him and don't trust him.

Co-author was Garten out of Scottsburg. He did most of the talking, him and I shouldn't be in close-proximity. We will not get along.

1515: Senator Freeman either implied the **** out of, or actually said "chronie capitalism" when referring to the "incredibly specific" (my words exactly from testimony) requirements of who can do the training. At this point, I'm not sure.

1523: Senator Mrvan talking about guys on the range (in the Military) with M1s. Garand or Carbine that was a LONG time ago Senator.

Those testifying who weren't elected:

Mike Vanover: in support, Judo and Jiu-Jitsu instructor, part of what I'll dub as the "TC" (training cabal)

1531 Tyson Nieder, Indiana School Safety Association, "concealed carry permit holder" from South Bend. (OMG, HE'S READING FROM HIS PHONE AND IS INCREDIBLY MONOTONE!!) In support, student at the TC.

1536: Paul Lageman, Indiana School Safety Association, another instructor in favor. At 1540 he said "our association", definitely in the TC.

1542: Jahn Jason Mantee: in favor, church security team, trained at (you guessed it!!) the TC.

Chris Long (not Howie's son, the other one) Safety dude at Team Lockout in Bluffton (TC HQ)

1548: Elliott Nichols: On the TC.

Chrystal Habbins, Mom and "Master Level Mental Health Professional" (so, not a Doc??) Anti, but wait, in the TC! Wants control and TC/very specific requirements for trainers opens the door. Bat-**** crazy.

1557: Gail Saharis, union type (Indiana State Teachers Association) at least not the usual annoying ISTA DB. Where are we going with this? BEEP!! Thankfully time is up. Aaannnddd they asked questions until 1609.

Terry Spradlin: from an acronym agency, never said what it was/with my hearing B/C/D/E/G/P/T/V and Z all sound alike.

1616: Sally Sloan, American Federation of Teachers. Anti but likes government control. READ THE BILL!!

Me: I was done at 1624 (Dis ben LONG day at dis point. I hadn't had anything to drink since about 1130, so I was pretty much spit-free when I was up there.)

Mad Mom #1: against (go figure) but like all the Mad Moms they are anti-gun, nothing to do with the bill. Read somebody else's testimony (maybe Guy could send me some of his material) "stay safe with unarmed" not sure what I was scribbling. Senator Sparks had a good comment and question.

1628: old mad mom reading somebody else's material (seems like a trend.) My scribbled comments included "glass ain't bullet-proof" "circular argument"

Mad Mom #3: same old mad mom stuff, scribbled comments included "what research?", "heard of Dr John Lott??", "conflating shooting YOUR student with reality", "School Resource Officer NOT MAGIC!". Also, "not enough training, tell that to the ILEA staff, they wrote it!!"

About 1635, PEACE OUT (I actually wrote that) and split. Then I ran into Jim Lucas with the NRA-ILA reps so I hung out with them for a while in the hall. You can see in the window, watch the hearing on TV, and make all the comments you can't make in the hearing room. Like calling the communist mad mom a communist and claiming Senator Freeman was playing Candy Crush. Both of those were my comments

It passed, look for amendments in the House or it will die there.

 

[rsklar]

At the risk of taking this thread off track, would you care to share proof of these instances? You know, since there are so many of them.

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/01/1...in-practice-some-form-of-legal-firearm-carry/

Here are a few highlights. I left the Virginia for last, that has gone the other direction.

Arkansas: In March 2017, Arkansas passed a law mandating that permitted concealed handguns be allowed in government buildings and the state Capitol.

Florida: Concealed carry only is allowed at Florida Capitol with handgun carry permit. No guns allowed in Legislative meetings. This Capitol does have metal detectors. Source: Florida Capitol Police 850-487-2700.

Idaho: If you carry concealed, you must have a concealed handgun carry permit until July 1, 2016. At that time, Constitutional Carry will go into effect for any legal gun owner who wishes to carry in the Idaho Capitol concealed.

Kansas: Anyone who is legally able to own a firearm can carry a concealed handgun in the Kansas State Capitol, no permit required. Only concealed carry is allowed. This Capitol does have metal detectors. Source: Kansas Capitol Police 785-296-3966

Tennessee: As of November 15th, 2017, Tennesseans with a valid, state-issued handgun carry permit will be able to carry their concealed handguns into the Tennessee Legislative complex (the Cordell Hull Building). The building houses lawmakers and staff offices as well as committee hearing rooms.

Texas: Anyone with a valid concealed handgun carry permit may carry concealed in the Texas State Capitol. This Capitol does have metal detectors.

Utah: Open or Concealed Carry is allowed with a handgun carry permit. This Capitol does NOT have metal detectors. Source: (Capitol Security) Utah Hwy Patrol 801-538-1618

Virginia: With the Democrats taking over the state House and Senate in 2020, legislation was passed banning the carrying of concealed handguns on state Capitol property. Everyone other than lawmakers will be required to go through metal detectors. While Democrats claimed that the legislation was at the request of the Capitol police, the police have denied that is the case. Republican Sen. Amanda Chase has said that she would not say whether she would comply with the new rules. “Capitol Police will not arrest any lawmakers who violate the gun ban.” Prior to that, the possession of a firearm was allowable to three groups. Those being General Assembly Members, Law Enforcement and anyone who has a valid concealed handgun permit. Firearms can be carried open or concealed. The Senate has banned firearms from being carried in the public gallery overlooking the Senate Floor. The House does not have that restriction for their gallery. This Capitol does have metal detectors.

 

[chipbennett]

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/01/1...in-practice-some-form-of-legal-firearm-carry/

Here are a few highlights. I left the Virginia for last, that has gone the other direction.

Arkansas: In March 2017, Arkansas passed a law mandating that permitted concealed handguns be allowed in government buildings and the state Capitol.

Florida: Concealed carry only is allowed at Florida Capitol with handgun carry permit. No guns allowed in Legislative meetings. This Capitol does have metal detectors. Source: Florida Capitol Police 850-487-2700.

Idaho: If you carry concealed, you must have a concealed handgun carry permit until July 1, 2016. At that time, Constitutional Carry will go into effect for any legal gun owner who wishes to carry in the Idaho Capitol concealed.

Kansas: Anyone who is legally able to own a firearm can carry a concealed handgun in the Kansas State Capitol, no permit required. Only concealed carry is allowed. This Capitol does have metal detectors. Source: Kansas Capitol Police 785-296-3966

Tennessee: As of November 15th, 2017, Tennesseans with a valid, state-issued handgun carry permit will be able to carry their concealed handguns into the Tennessee Legislative complex (the Cordell Hull Building). The building houses lawmakers and staff offices as well as committee hearing rooms.

Texas: Anyone with a valid concealed handgun carry permit may carry concealed in the Texas State Capitol. This Capitol does have metal detectors.

Utah: Open or Concealed Carry is allowed with a handgun carry permit. This Capitol does NOT have metal detectors. Source: (Capitol Security) Utah Hwy Patrol 801-538-1618

Virginia: With the Democrats taking over the state House and Senate in 2020, legislation was passed banning the carrying of concealed handguns on state Capitol property. Everyone other than lawmakers will be required to go through metal detectors. While Democrats claimed that the legislation was at the request of the Capitol police, the police have denied that is the case. Republican Sen. Amanda Chase has said that she would not say whether she would comply with the new rules. “Capitol Police will not arrest any lawmakers who violate the gun ban.” Prior to that, the possession of a firearm was allowable to three groups. Those being General Assembly Members, Law Enforcement and anyone who has a valid concealed handgun permit. Firearms can be carried open or concealed. The Senate has banned firearms from being carried in the public gallery overlooking the Senate Floor. The House does not have that restriction for their gallery. This Capitol does have metal detectors.

These are... laws.

Where are the citations of instances (much less, statistics) of concealed carriers shooting good guys?

 

[MCgrease08]

These are... laws.

Where are the citations of instances (much less, statistics) of concealed carriers shooting good guys?

^^ This ^^

I appreciate the effort for the other stuff about carrying in statehouses, but not what I was asking about.