It begins...

[Chewie]

Nah. I’m not the one full of ****.

Are you sure about that? Not even a little?

 

[BugI02]

Deciding to reject an ideology isn't just knowledge. You don't just reason it. You take in new information and you have a pretty good sense nearly immediately whether you accept or reject it. You instinctively accept or reject new information before you have much time to actually think about it. This is a binary process. It's instinct. Input: Gun owners voted for Biden. Nope. Can't be. They must be traitors. They want to ruin the country. You guys likely reacted this way before actually putting any rational thought at all to it. And this is why all through this thread you guys kept insisting that those people had motives they've never expressed. You say "they want to ruin 'Murica!" You're interpreting their actions by your own imagination of what someone must have to think to do what they did, without any consideration for their own reasoning.

Their side is the same way. I mean we're all human, even Leftists. Barely. But ***damnit we had the chance to have what I believe would could have been an honest conversation with one of them and y'all couldn't handle it. Ya had to get it shut down. You had a chance to see how the other side, in the same way as you do, was judging YOUR speech and actions according to their own understanding of the world. But no. Zero rules broken, yet INGO cancel culture overruled. Thread locked. Yeah. I'm still torqued off about that.

The point of that thread wasn't to flip people to one side or the other. If you go into a conversation with the goal of flipping someone over to your side, you're likely gonna fail. You can't be persuasive enough to overcome instinctive rejection. Persuasion only works with trust. This isn't proselytizing Jesus here. The best you can hope for going into these kinds of discussions is to understand what and why the other person believes what they believe.

If you don't at least understand, then you'll go around ascribing to them words that they never said, beliefs they don't actually hold, or motives they don't actually have. This country is more divided than anytime since the civil war. It is what it is because people believe the worst about the other to a point where there is no reconciliation between the Left and Right. They think the right is all terrorists. The right thinks the left is all bat **** crazy woke people hell bent on destroying the US. There are some right wing terrorists. There are some left wing bat **** crazy woke people. But not all the right are and not all the left are, even though each believes the other is.

I think a Biden voting gun owner is foolish, bad, empowering some really bad people. But "bad" is a spectrum. One of those is better than a Biden voting woke ass bat **** crazy person hell bent on destroying the US. Don't make people worse than they actually are. At some point, when Biden signs legislation that makes them felons for owning their AR, will they decide that maybe being a team player isn't working? Can they ally with sane right wing people to fight it? Not if they only have their instincts, which tell them that you're all terrorists.

When it comes time to try to fight our way back out of communism, I have little faith that they won't be somehow rationalizing driving the APCs to run us over. If they can lie to themselves that what they did made no difference, they cannot be trusted on anything. Their 'awakening', if it happens will be to little too late and I for one would never turn my back on them nor trust them

I'm kind of disgusted that you are arguing that we should try to understand people who never lifted a finger to understand us

 

[Tombs]

I'm starting to wonder if this country would have even ended up getting founded if people followed Jamil's reasoning.

We could have just had an honest conversation with the British, then we could have understood each other's world views and realized that we're the ones who are full of ****.

Word to the wise, people who are trying to kill you can't be reasoned with anymore, and their motivations don't matter. In fact, nothing matters except for the fact their alliances and world views will put you in a grave or behind bars.

We had plenty of time to come to mutual understanding over many many years now, and all of the views and possible arguments have been expressed. They decided your life is forfeit if you don't conform to their world view, so there's no more talking necessary.

 

[jamil]

Are you sure about that? Not even a little?

Well maybe sometimes. Just a little.

 

[Floki]

Seriously, for those that did vote for old diapers Biden, what could he possibly bring to the table aside from making us compliant ward’s of the state that could entice you to vote for him ? 5.00/gallon gas? Chaos at the border? Banning dr. Seuss?

 

[BugI02]

Seriously, for those that did vote for old diapers Biden, what could he possibly bring to the table aside from making us compliant ward’s of the state that could entice you to vote for him ? 5.00/gallon gas? Chaos at the border? Banning dr. Seuss?

A compliant, malleable pudding eater in place of the dangerous and unpredictable Trump. A placeholder for the position of most powewrful man on earth who simply does what he is told by the handlers who got him across the finish line. A Tabula Rasa upon which the left can write whatever sick bull**** strikes their fancy

An 'adult in the Depends room'. A quisling who will sell half of us out for an easy, cushy time for himself and his family without being influenced by what is right or wrong

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

 

[jamil]

When it comes time to try to fight our way back out of communism, I have little faith that they won't be somehow rationalizing driving the APCs to run us over. If they can lie to themselves that what they did made no difference, they cannot be trusted on anything. Their 'awakening', if it happens will be to little too late and I for one would never turn my back on them nor trust them

I'm kind of disgusted that you are arguing that we should try to understand people who never lifted a finger to understand us

You guys seem to be conflating everything under the umbrella of it's the communists!

So then if I narrow the scope to a few people on a gun forum who voted for 0biden, and say, well, hold on, those specific people don't seem to be saying the same things the bat **** crazy democrats are saying, they're simply foolish, you're like it's the communists!

To me, your disgust seems to be more that I'm not in lock-step with your binary thinking. I'm just going to think through all sides of any issue and acknowledge what truths I think are there and throw out the rest. CampingJosh, Kut, Alpo, PaulF, and even sometimes JK are not the problem, and they're not even the enemy. They're not advocating for all the **** that Joe 0biden and the bat **** crazy Democrats are doing. They just voted for the *******. That's NOT the same thing. They've never advocated on INGO for gun control. In fact they foolishly said they doubted Democrats could/would do it. But no, that has to be conflated into the whole "communist if you disagree with me" ********.

 

[jamil]

I'm starting to wonder if this country would have even ended up getting founded if people followed Jamil's reasoning.

We could have just had an honest conversation with the British, then we could have understood each other's world views and realized that we're the ones who are full of ****.

Word to the wise, people who are trying to kill you can't be reasoned with anymore, and their motivations don't matter. In fact, nothing matters except for the fact their alliances and world views will put you in a grave or behind bars.

We had plenty of time to come to mutual understanding over many many years now, and all of the views and possible arguments have been expressed. They decided your life is forfeit if you don't conform to their world view, so there's no more talking necessary.

********. You'd probably have been a Tory, given that 97% did not participate in the revolution (though the 3%'er claim is likely historical ********).

Your sentiment, again, is part of the conflation of all things into that tidy us/them binary. Given your feedback in the post, you clearly did not understand what I said. But I don't think it's possible. So I'll just say this: What are those few people here who foolishly voted for Biden going to do when push comes to shove? What are YOU going to do? I strongly suspect that there isn't a lot of difference there when it comes right down to it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

********. You'd probably have been a Tory, given that 97% did not participate in the revolution (though the 3%'er claim is likely historical ********).

Your sentiment, again, is part of the conflation of all things into that tidy us/them binary. Given your feedback in the post, you clearly did not understand what I said. But I don't think it's possible. So I'll just say this: What are those few people here who foolishly voted for Biden going to do when push comes to shove? What are YOU going to do? I strongly suspect that there isn't a lot of difference there when it comes right down to it.

The actual 3% is the approximate number actively participating at any given time. That takes in more than 3% of the population having participated sum total with some rotating in, others rotating out, others yet getting killed.

Ben Franklin's rule of thumb was that 1/3 were supportive of the cause, 1/3 were loyal to the crown, and 1/3 were indifferent.

That said, I can claim it as a good thing for me that one young man who did participate lived long enough to procreate!

 

[jamil]

The actual 3% is the approximate number actively participating at any given time. That takes in more than 3% of the population having participated sum total with some rotating in, others rotating out, others yet getting killed.

Ben Franklin's rule of thumb was that 1/3 were supportive of the cause, 1/3 were loyal to the crown, and 1/3 were indifferent.

That said, I can claim it as a good thing for me that one young man who did participate lived long enough to procreate!

Obviously the actual number that participated is very small compared with the general population, as it is with all armed conflicts. What percentage of Americans participated in the civil war? I don't know an exact percentage but likely not a lot more than 3%. How many Americans participated in WWI, WW2, Korean War, Vietnam, and so on? Calling them 3%'ers is actually kinda meaningless. It's a question of what's the percentage of the population who are soldiers and people directly supporting them?

WW2 I'd say the number is pretty high, because a lot of people participated in that they actively contributed by building planes, tanks, weapons, ammo and such. The percentages go way up when you talk about those less directly supporting the cause, for example, their political support. I think if Franklin's rule of thumb was accurate, 1/3 political support for treason against the Crown was a pretty amazing proportion.

 

[jamil]

Oh, and you're lucky that you know your family's heritage back that far. I know nothing beyond who my grandfather was on my Dad's side. My Dad was born just before WWI. His dad, I'd have to estimate, was born sometime in the 1880's. All I know beyond that is that my heritage is primarily Irish from both sides, and that has very little meaning to me. I'm mean, it's not like I identify as Irish. St Patrick's day flew by without a care.

 

[BugI02]

You guys seem to be conflating everything under the umbrella of it's the communists!

So then if I narrow the scope to a few people on a gun forum who voted for 0biden, and say, well, hold on, those specific people don't seem to be saying the same things the bat **** crazy democrats are saying, they're simply foolish, you're like it's the communists!

To me, your disgust seems to be more that I'm not in lock-step with your binary thinking. I'm just going to think through all sides of any issue and acknowledge what truths I think are there and throw out the rest. CampingJosh, Kut, Alpo, PaulF, and even sometimes JK are not the problem, and they're not even the enemy. They're not advocating for all the **** that Joe 0biden and the bat **** crazy Democrats are doing. They just voted for the *******. That's NOT the same thing. They've never advocated on INGO for gun control. In fact they foolishly said they doubted Democrats could/would do it. But no, that has to be conflated into the whole "communist if you disagree with me" ********.

That isn't nuance, is it? 'Cause I hate nuance, too

 

[jamil]

That isn't nuance, is it? 'Cause I hate nuance, too

It’s not nuance. I’m complaining that two bit resolution is insufficient to represent reality. You lump in moderates like all those names I mentioned in with bat **** crazy Democrats. That’s not even close to reality so it’s also not nuance. It’s discrete inaccuracy.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

Oh, and you're lucky that you know your family's heritage back that far. I know nothing beyond who my grandfather was on my Dad's side. My Dad was born just before WWI. His dad, I'd have to estimate, was born sometime in the 1880's. All I know beyond that is that my heritage is primarily Irish from both sides, and that has very little meaning to me. I'm mean, it's not like I identify as Irish. St Patrick's day flew by without a care.

lol good we don't want you

 

[jamil]

lol good we don't want you

We? As if being in the clan of Irish in America many generations later is a thing to be sought? It’s not that I have anything against people of Irish descent. It’s that for most people of Irish descent living in the US for generations, we no longer have a distinct cultural tie to being Irish.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

We? As if being in the clan of Irish in America many generations later is a thing to be sought? It’s not that I have anything against people of Irish descent. It’s that for most people of Irish descent living in the US for generations, we no longer have a distinct cultural tie to being Irish.

Maybe you should get out more...

 

[jamil]

Maybe you should get out more...

I think I get out plenty. I know some people of Irish descent who take their culture seriously and many who don’t think much about being Irish. I think it’s a matter of upbringing. My parents were more interested in forging a life for their family than focusing on their cultural heritage. Cultures blend and as generations evolve sometimes cultural distinctions fade. I grew up thinking that my culture is American, not a hyphenated word in front of that. I have never identified as Irish American. I’m fine with being just an American.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

I think I get out plenty. I know some people of Irish descent who take their culture seriously and many who don’t think much about being Irish. I think it’s a matter of upbringing. My parents were more interested in forging a life for their family than focusing on their cultural heritage. Cultures blend and as generations evolve sometimes cultural distinctions fade. I grew up thinking that my culture is American, not a hyphenated word in front of that. I have never identified as Irish American. I’m fine with being just an American.

We have a strong and vibrant Irish community here in Indiana. I, my family and friends we're all proud of our heritage. There's lots to get involved in if you seek it out. If you don't experience it yourself does not mean it doesn't exist...

 

[Airtevron1]

I think I get out plenty. I know some people of Irish descent who take their culture seriously and many who don’t think much about being Irish. I think it’s a matter of upbringing. My parents were more interested in forging a life for their family than focusing on their cultural heritage. Cultures blend and as generations evolve sometimes cultural distinctions fade. I grew up thinking that my culture is American, not a hyphenated word in front of that. I have never identified as Irish American. I’m fine with being just an American.

curious, do you even own a gun?