It begins...

[jamil]

All true. One wonders how they came up with the brilliant idea that getting the prosecutor nipping at his sons fired is s US national interest.

Oh, it's in the US interest to end the corruption in The Ukraine.

 

[Tombs]

Oh, it's in the US interest to end the corruption in The Ukraine.

That might not result in them being as friendly to the US as we want though.

The corruption allows us to buy votes, help fund private paramilitary adventures and other fun things. I learned this from Biden and Poroshenko's own phone calls lol.

 

[jamil]

That might not result in them being as friendly to the US as we want though.

The corruption allows us to buy votes, help fund private paramilitary adventures and other fun things. I learned this from Biden and Poroshenko's own phone calls lol.

That was just an excuse concocted by ideologues to allow them to justify Biden.

 

[Leadeye]

I see it as everybody has an opinion.

My opinion is that politicians who don't support 2A don't get my vote, period, but there are other people I'm sure who think differently.

This is a gun forum so why somebody would support and then crow about the victory of anti 2A candidates is beyond me. Like mowing your lawn Sunday morning at 0500, you can do it, but it just ****es off the neighborhood. Some people get off on that.

The guy who owns the forum makes the rules so if he allows this it's his business. I don't know much about the web business, if this sort of controversy makes more money, I can't fault a man for trying to make a living. Anybody can leave, or stay and ignore. It's still a mostly free country.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Oh, it's in the US interest to end the corruption in The Ukraine.

Of course, although one wonders how those fools believe hou fight corruption by firing the prosecutor who is investigating corrupt actors including those named Biden.

 

[KG1]

I don't see how Biden could threaten to hold up the billion dollars and claim it was because of corruption concerns but Trump gets impeached for also expressing concerns over corruption.

 

[Sigblaster]

That said, I would grudgingly vote pro-2A/pro-murder before the other way around in the knowledge that once we lose the 2A we are subjects, not citizens.

I don't want to let this point slip by without emphasis because it's so important. I believe the protections guaranteed by the Bill of rights should be the primary issue for anyone who believes in the fundamental concepts of our Republic. In general, without all of them, we are powerless against our government, and specifically without the Second Amendment, we would lack the teeth to defend the rest of our rights. If we ever lose the Second, the rest aren't far behind. This is demonstrable in the history of many countries. Not ancient history, but very very recent history. And if we lose the Second, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to ever get it back.

I question not only the intelligence, but also the sanity of anyone who would place their social or emotional beliefs above the importance of the Bill of Rights.

If you have 11 minutes, I encourage you to view the following video (if I didn't F up the board code). I hope Americans never have to produce a similar video.

 

[BugI02]

No, nothing is stopping him. But think about it from this perspective. Let's say you're on a site where mostly progressives hang out. And they constantly harass you about your right wing views. How long you gonna stay?

Did they not choose to be on a site where, if they paid attention, the could reasonably expect their views to be met with opprobrium? Unless they have far above average persuasive skills and a unique viewpoint that could motivate people to re-examine their own standards, it just comes off as trolling

The progressives feel they know enough about conservatism and reject it, the conservatives feel they know enough about progressivism and reject it. In the absence of the ability to really shake someone's bedrock assumptions, it is probably better not to make the attempt unless you just like to **** people off. So, talk to me about CampingJosh, again

 

[BugI02]

Assuming everything else stays the same, and realizing that I personally have as great a chance as any 3rd party candidate, I still would have gone with Trump since he can't be worse than Biden on gun control and is infinitely better for the economy, border control, excluding unvetted persons from terrorist nations, pro-life, appoints better SC justices, has an infinitely better foreign policy, especially concerning China, and still has a functioning mind.

As much of a Trumper as I am, I could not go there. I don't think you can MAGA while ignoring the constitution. If Trump had run on a gun control platform, I would have found somebody else

 

[Tombs]

Did they not choose to be on a site where, if they paid attention, the could reasonably expect their views to be met with opprobrium? Unless they have far above average persuasive skills and a unique viewpoint that could motivate people to re-examine their own standards, it just comes off as trolling

The progressives feel they know enough about conservatism and reject it, the conservatives feel they know enough about progressivism and reject it. In the absence of the ability to really shake someone's bedrock assumptions, it is probably better not to make the attempt unless you just like to **** people off. So, talk to me about CampingJosh, again

Well I probably sit on the opposite end of the spectrum economically around here and I don't notice any issues with anyone.

I don't think it's an ideology problem, it's a personality problem.

 

[Sigblaster]

As much of a Trumper as I am, I could not go there. I don't think you can MAGA while ignoring the constitution. If Trump had run on a gun control platform, I would have found somebody else

I didn't vote for McCain for President, because of his historical support for universal background checks. I didn't vote for Romney for President, because he signed an assault weapons ban in Massachusetts. I will not knowingly vote for a proponent of gun control.

Trump presents a problem in this respect. He vowed to support the 2nd, so he got my first vote. Then he f'd us with bumpstocks and his open support for red flag laws (which I don't support, and which we've had here long before he came along, I think).

Well, I figure he's going to be overruled by the courts on the bumpstock deal, and his rhetoric about the red flag laws, while offensive, did not dissuade me from voting (grudgingly) for him a second time, because his illogical opinion is not law, even though it may have encouraged others to make law.

Biden is a known advocate for disarming the citizenry, contrary to the basic protections enshrined in the Bill of Rights. There is absolutely no way I could vote for him. Every one of his positions harms the Republic, in deep and meaninful ways. It's frustrating to see people place their emotional beliefs above their constitutional protections, and to see they will not accept reason over emotion.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I didn't vote for McCain for President, because of his historical support for universal background checks. I didn't vote for Romney for President, because he signed an assault weapons ban in Massachusetts. I will not knowingly vote for a proponent of gun control.

Trump presents a problem in this respect. He vowed to support the 2nd, so he got my first vote. Then he f'd us with bumpstocks and his open support for red flag laws (which I don't support, and which we've had here long before he came along, I think).

Well, I figure he's going to be overruled by the courts on the bumpstock deal, and his rhetoric about the red flag laws, while offensive, did not dissuade me from voting (grudgingly) for him a second time, because his illogical opinion is not law, even though it may have encouraged others to make law.

Biden is a known advocate for disarming the citizenry, contrary to the basic protections enshrined in the Bill of Rights. There is absolutely no way I could vote for him. Every one of his positions harms the Republic, in deep and meaninful ways. It's frustrating to see people place their emotional beliefs above their constitutional protections, and to see they will not accept reason over emotion.

We're thinking pretty much alike. I was willing to overlook the bumpstock thing simply because Trump was politically backed into a corner and was still in the process of finding his way into a place on the conservative-libertarian continuum after a relatively short time to transition away from NYC D politics.

He made the same transition as Reagan only in a much shorter time. I am more forgiving of Trump than I would be a lifelong R because Trump was still finding his way and also doing things for the good of the country.

By contrast, Mitchell McConnell recently said he would only pursue a conservative agenda as a scorched earth in the event of an especially acrimonious situation with the Ds when that is what he is supposed to be doing in the first place.

 

[Tombs]

By contrast, Mitchell McConnell recently said he would only pursue a conservative agenda as a scorched earth in the event of an especially acrimonious situation with the Ds when that is what he is supposed to be doing in the first place.

He's just cashing welfare checks, he couldn't give less of a **** about any of us than the CCP.

 

[churchmouse]

hat entire bumpstock thing aint 2 cents on a dollar scale compared to what we are facing. I get so tired of hearing "But the Bumpstocks".....Oh my god the "Bumpstock.

But gee wizz looks like Bumpstock passed Muster today or so I have read.

Go figure.

 

[XbigcheezX]

So, are you all just gonna turn in your ar-15s, and magazines over 10 rnds? how is this gonna work exactly...

 

[XbigcheezX]

hat entire bumpstock thing aint 2 cents on a dollar scale compared to what we are facing. I get so tired of hearing "But the Bumpstocks".....Oh my god the "Bumpstock.

But gee wizz looks like Bumpstock passed Muster today or so I have read.

Go figure.

Bumpstocks were a seriously f'd up workaround for full auto, not effective, but a damn good target for the gun control folks.

 

[cbhausen]

Bump stocks were a fun way to waste ammo. And that’s something most (if not all) of us aren’t going to be doing anytime soon (if ever again).

 

[Expat]

So, are you all just gonna turn in your ar-15s, and magazines over 10 rnds? how is this gonna work exactly...

 

[KG1]

So, are you all just gonna turn in your ar-15s, and magazines over 10 rnds? how is this gonna work exactly...

It's not gonna work out.

 

[jamil]

Did they not choose to be on a site where, if they paid attention, the could reasonably expect their views to be met with opprobrium? Unless they have far above average persuasive skills and a unique viewpoint that could motivate people to re-examine their own standards, it just comes off as trolling

The progressives feel they know enough about conservatism and reject it, the conservatives feel they know enough about progressivism and reject it. In the absence of the ability to really shake someone's bedrock assumptions, it is probably better not to make the attempt unless you just like to **** people off. So, talk to me about CampingJosh, again

Deciding to reject an ideology isn't just knowledge. You don't just reason it. You take in new information and you have a pretty good sense nearly immediately whether you accept or reject it. You instinctively accept or reject new information before you have much time to actually think about it. This is a binary process. It's instinct. Input: Gun owners voted for Biden. Nope. Can't be. They must be traitors. They want to ruin the country. You guys likely reacted this way before actually putting any rational thought at all to it. And this is why all through this thread you guys kept insisting that those people had motives they've never expressed. You say "they want to ruin 'Murica!" You're interpreting their actions by your own imagination of what someone must have to think to do what they did, without any consideration for their own reasoning.

Their side is the same way. I mean we're all human, even Leftists. Barely. But ***damnit we had the chance to have what I believe would could have been an honest conversation with one of them and y'all couldn't handle it. Ya had to get it shut down. You had a chance to see how the other side, in the same way as you do, was judging YOUR speech and actions according to their own understanding of the world. But no. Zero rules broken, yet INGO cancel culture overruled. Thread locked. Yeah. I'm still torqued off about that.

The point of that thread wasn't to flip people to one side or the other. If you go into a conversation with the goal of flipping someone over to your side, you're likely gonna fail. You can't be persuasive enough to overcome instinctive rejection. Persuasion only works with trust. This isn't proselytizing Jesus here. The best you can hope for going into these kinds of discussions is to understand what and why the other person believes what they believe.

If you don't at least understand, then you'll go around ascribing to them words that they never said, beliefs they don't actually hold, or motives they don't actually have. This country is more divided than anytime since the civil war. It is what it is because people believe the worst about the other to a point where there is no reconciliation between the Left and Right. They think the right is all terrorists. The right thinks the left is all bat **** crazy woke people hell bent on destroying the US. There are some right wing terrorists. There are some left wing bat **** crazy woke people. But not all the right are and not all the left are, even though each believes the other is.

I think a Biden voting gun owner is foolish, bad, empowering some really bad people. But "bad" is a spectrum. One of those is better than a Biden voting woke ass bat **** crazy person hell bent on destroying the US. Don't make people worse than they actually are. At some point, when Biden signs legislation that makes them felons for owning their AR, will they decide that maybe being a team player isn't working? Can they ally with sane right wing people to fight it? Not if they only have their instincts, which tell them that you're all terrorists.