Uvalde Texas Killing

[patience0830]

You can have morals without being religious.

But generally not without solid upbringing and good examples. Christianity is not perfect. It's practiced by humans. What do you expect?

 

[patience0830]

a BIG NO THANKS! I appreciate your thinking, and would agree under other circumstances. From what I've seen, many of the teachers and faculty are exactly the triggered Karen's that I DON'T want to have rapid access to deadly force. They are not mature, not mentally stable, and more likely should be prohibited possessors.

I'm worried enough about: 1. a gov't police state; and 2. the 're-education and indoctrination day-camp' that our schools have become. The thought of combining these two should scare the out of us all!!

My apologies to the fantastic people who are teachers. I know you're out there, but you're the exception to the rule. Even amongst the exceptions, those with the mindset to carry, train, and use, are still rare. I can only recall a few in my lifetime that fit. One was a shop teacher (we no longer seem to have those), and one was a former state police officer.

Nope - I think even if I were a teacher, spending time in the teachers lounge with my "peers" would make even me say "teachers shouldn't have guns at school".

As a group, those with the sheepdog might diet are a minority in society as well. Would you say we should not be armed and trained? Don't let bias against a group blind you to the good a subset of that group could do.

 

[Sylvain]

You must not realize the 2nd amendment stops on school property unfortunately for teachers who want to be armed they are forbidden.

Parents can be armed on school property as long as they don't get out if their cars with their firearm.

I'm aware of that unconstitutional law.

That law is stupid and dangerous on top of being unconstitutional.

A set of rubber tires keep you from becoming a felon.
You're fine sitting in your car with a gun on your hip but if you open the door and set one foot on the ground you're an instant felon, a danger to society.

People who passed that law are morons.

 

[DadSmith]

Unfortunately things that happened are still unclear.
I'm going to hold any more praise or scold until the facts are made clear.

One thing that is needed is armed security inside and outside. Preferably combat veterans who would be willing to lay it on the line for our children. Also pistols are not going to cut it, they need rifles, SBR's, or PCC's

 

[Keith_Indy]

Not sure if these have been posted yet... I CONSIDER THESE INITIAL REPORTS AND SUBJECT TO REVISION

That agent is a hero. "was trained in a manner similar to US special forces."

School had security, 2 got shot in the initial moments, had resource officer, not sure if armed, or how that "encounter" went yet.

All casualties inside school were in 1 classroom.

Hero border agent’s cap shows how close he was to being killed by Salvador Ramos

The agent — a member of the CBP’s elite Border Patrol Tactical Unit, or BORTAC – was wearing the cap when he rushed into Robb Elementary School amid the rampage, Fox News reported.

nypost.com

The off-duty Customs and Border Protection agent who killed Texas gunman Salvador Ramos was a hair’s breadth away from getting shot in the head – as is evident in a photo of the hero’s bullet-ripped cap.

The agent — a member of the CBP’s elite Border Patrol Tactical Unit, or BORTAC – was wearing the cap when he rushed into Robb Elementary School amid the rampage, Fox News reported.

The photo obtained by Fox News shows a long gash along the mesh section atop the black-and-white cap he was wearing as the bullet grazed his head.

The officer had exchanged rounds with Ramos, who was barricaded inside a fourth-grade classroom, but the agent managed to kill the gunman before he could commit more carnage.

The agent — part of CBP’s Del Rio sector, which covers Uvalde — was trained in a manner similar to US special forces.

BORTAC agents are taught to handle terror threats abroad and other chaos, such as riots at ICE detention facilities, NBC reported.

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

Onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers

abcnews.go.com

Minutes earlier, Carranza had watched as Salvador Ramos crashed his truck into a ditch outside the school, grabbed his AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and shot at two people outside a nearby funeral home who ran away uninjured.

Officials say he “encountered" a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.

After entering the school, Ramos charged into one classroom and began to kill.

He “barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom,” Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. “It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter.”

All those killed were in the same classroom, he said.

 

[cosermann]

...She knows I carry and train regularly. I asked if she'd be OK with me or someone like me carrying in a school if I were a teacher. She still said, "no. Guns don't belong in school."...

Someone should point out to her that guns USED to be in and around schools. Some schools used to have indoor shooting ranges - in the schools. Students used to keep firearms in their cars, especially during deer season, etc. Gasp.

Making schools into GFZs didn't fix anything.

 

[KittySlayer]

Here's another thought. Maybe if the cops hadn't been tied up dealing with people that wanted to rush in, they could have concentrated on the situation at hand instead of being distracted with crowd control.

And here is another thought. If so many good LEOs (capable, trained, brave) were not busy dealing with our open border they could have been in their community able to prevent or stop this tragedy in a more timely manner.

Instead we often end up with SROs that are not much more than Mall Cops. Either not qualified or muzzled by the school boards and politicians.

 

[cosermann]

... In America, in the last century, we never really "had God in schools". ...

Not entirely accurate. Prayer, the 10 Commandments, etc. were largely a part of the public schools until around 1962 (60 yrs ago) after a series of SCOTUS decisions. I know plenty of people who remember a morning prayer in school up until that time.

It's interesting to look at rates of things like drug use, teen pregnancy, etc. before and after 1962. Seems to suggest that a more public moral code exerted a positive influence. One of many factors to be sure.

 

[DadSmith]

Someone should point out to her that guns USED to be in and around schools. Some schools used to have indoor shooting ranges - in the schools. Students used to keep firearms in their cars, especially during deer season, etc. Gasp.

Making schools into GFZs didn't fix anything.

I was one of those students. Kept a Winchester 30-30 and my single shot 20ga in my gun rack in my Dodge power wagon 4x4. I also kept my dad's 44 magnum revolver in there with a lot of ammo to boot. After school me and a few of my friends would go and shoot for a few hours before going home.

ROTC there had an indoor 50yd range and we did compete with other schools ROTC.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Not entirely accurate. Prayer, the 10 Commandments, etc. were largely a part of the public schools until around 1962 (60 yrs ago) after a series of SCOTUS decisions. I know plenty of people who remember a morning prayer in school up until that time.

It's interesting to look at rates of things like drug use, teen pregnancy, etc. before and after 1962. Seems to suggest that a more public moral code exerted a positive influence. One of many factors to be sure.

I remember having Weekday Religious Education in grade school in the 60's and early 70's. Because of the constitutional issues, they had a trailer set up outside the school where we went for those classes so that they technically weren't "in school".

 

[cbhausen]

Maybe tic tic,twitter, Facebook, etc. could figure out how to create an algorithm that if you post I just shot, I’m going to shoot up, I’m going to blow up, I’m going to kill, etc, it would notify local authorities so they could respond appropriately.

@tbhausen posted “shoot them all” on fb in reference to coyotes and got 30 days in fb jail.

 

[rooster]

Timeline interview at around 3:30.

paraphrasing here
“Suspect was barricaded in and begins to murder people, officers engaged and then this is where the 30 minute lull was while they evacuated the rest of the school while they had him penned in. “



So someone made the call that those kids were dead and decided to focus on evacuation instead of confronting the threat……



It’s beyond time to call your congressman and demand they codify the duty of law enforcement to protect citizens. Failure to act costs lives in these situations.

“A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week” — George Patton

 

[jamil]

Correlation does not equal causation.

I think cancellation of the nuclear family has more cause than merely correlation. What roll models did that kid have to teach him how to handle whatever adversity he had in his life, better than shooting up anschool be cause he was pissed because he didn’t graduate. Or whatever other petty reason he had that would have been trained out of him by a responsible dad.

I’m not Christian. But there seems to be a hell of alot of correlation with being a Christian in America and not shooting people who don’t need shot. Maybe that’s not causation. Maybe it’s that they fear god or have faith in him. Either way it at least helps them override the instinct to kill people when they don’t get their way. That’s an evolutionary advantage in my mind.

 

[MCgrease08]

Maybe tic tic,twitter, Facebook, etc. could figure out how to create an algorithm that if you post I just shot, I’m going to shoot up, I’m going to blow up, I’m going to kill, etc, it would notify local authorities so they could respond appropriately.

Let's think this through, shall we?

Gun enthusiast posts on FB: "I can't wait till Saturday so I can shoot my new .22 I bought to kill ground hogs and rabbits that have been terrorizing Mama's garden all spring. I may even blow up a few pop bottles while I'm out at the range."

Local authorities: **knock knock**

 

[Denny347]

The training should be a major factor in changing sheep to sheepdog. All teachers aren't stoopid and cowardly. Use the ones who aren't.

I'm certainly ok with that. I just don't see it as the solution to this issue as there are FAR too few willing/able to intervene.

 

[JCSR]

This is unacceptable. Who would make the call to stand down in this case?

 

[rooster]

at what point does incompetency rise to the level of criminal negligence?

Police couldn’t get into the classroom that Ramos barricaded himself in while presumably kids bled out because they didn’t have a key.

What in the actual f***? No other way to get that door open? Or breach through the window?

 

[JCSR]

at what point does incompetency rise to the level of criminal negligence?

Police couldn’t get into the classroom that Ramos barricaded himself in while presumably kids bled out because they didn’t have a key.

What in the actual f***? No other way to get that door open? Or breach through the window?

They won't look for a key when the come to get our guns.

 

[rooster]

Perhaps this is why evacuation was prioritized instead of killing the “penned up” murderer and saving the wounded.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

at what point does incompetency rise to the level of criminal negligence?

Police couldn’t get into the classroom that Ramos barricaded himself in while presumably kids bled out because they didn’t have a key.

What in the actual f***? No other way to get that door open? Or breach through the window?

Sounds like the door was hardened... you know, like people here have been advocating?